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Defense: BART Shooting Cop Meant To Use Taser

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posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by alyosha1981
 


They had him subdued, they had a knee on his head and a knee in his back he hasnt able to move and unless you can turn your arms 360 degrees to use a weapon then I might believe your argument. He was in a position where he posed little threat to the police.

You can clearly see the officer reach back for his gun they keep the guns and tasers on opposite sides of the belt to avoid any confusion between the two and the officer has been an officer for two years now. After an extended period you become familiar with where your gun is placed. Not only that but taser is colored bright yellow.




The taser is only "bright yellow" in the middle, as stated in earlyer posts the mind is clouded during a confrontation, the victim here IMO is the former officer. The suspect should have done what the officers were telling him to do he should have cooperated' why was he he fighting them? why was he resisting? what was he trying to hide? why was he fighting on the transit system to begin with? wasn't the fight gang related?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by alyosha1981]


How sickening and odd that a human being can view this incident and conclude that Mehserle is the victim!

In ANY of the videos where is your evidence that gives you the slightest idea that Oscar Grant is:

a)Resisting
b)Trying to hide something
c)Fighting on the transit system
d)Involved with a "gang"

I am tired of hearing all of this chatter about Grant not being cooperative. He has his hands up multiple times on video and is shown pleading with the officers. While supposedly "resisting", he is face down with Tony Pirone's knee on his neck/shoulder while Mehserle handcuffs him, then shoots him. Yeah, he was so uncooperative. What's worse is that there's no mention of Grant being involved in the preceding incidents on the BART train.

The good thing is that the Judge has set Mehserle's bail at $3,000,000. So the family will have to come up with $300,000 to bail him out, which I really doubt is going to happen. Even if they do, bailing him out puts him at risk for so many things.

But if you read the article about the bail hearing, you can see that the Judge and other officials already do not buy the defense.

www.insidebayarea.com...

A great point is made (among many others you can make). If Mehserle honestly thought Grant was going for a gun, why would Mehserle reach for a Taser!?

What's being ignored is that Grant is actually handcuffed while being shot. That's the case closer right there. Please re-watch the videos. Grant is handcuffed right before being murdered.




posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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If this article turns out to be right, he wasn't even carrying a taser that night. In the picture of the cop, i can't see a taser, it is just a matter of whether that photo is from the same night.
If it is from the same night, i think all of the taser apologists need to step up and admit that they were wrong(but we know they will find another reason to dismiss his cold hearted behaviour).
Taser or not, there is no excuse for what this idiot did, and his actions after the shooting have shown his guilt as far as i am concerned. If there were a video of a civilian shooting a cop in the back, people would call the person guilty without bothering to find out the back story, but reverse the roles, and the "Authority Apologists" will bend over backwards to construe a story that leaves the true criminals as the victims.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but if this cop has used taser would he not also tased fellow officer?



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by xstealth
The guy had no business tasering a man on the ground cooperating with them. Didn't see any struggling in the video. If he did taser, and not shoot him, it should be a crime as well.

He is full of it, that guy knew what he was doing.


I would rather adults be tasered than children, and many people feel that tasering children is acceptable.

We called the police dept when this first happened and told them that we felt this guy should be charged. Personally, I feel that he should have known if he had grabbed a taser compared to his gun. Sounds fishy to me.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by MegaCurious

Defense: BART Shooting Cop Meant To Use Taser


www.ktvu.com

Mehserle was armed with both a Taser and a handgun. He then allegedly drew the handgun and shot Grant once.

The bail document later asserts that "the bulk of the discovery, including witness and officer statements, seem to indicate that this young officer, who carried a taser for only a few shifts prior to this event, may have mistakenly deployed his service pistol rather than his taser, thus negating any criminal intent."
(visit the link for the full news article)



ABSOLUTE POPPYCOCK I SAY!

It was cold blooded murder while the cop was on his super power trip. The murder itself was his cherry on the cake and orgasm and now he's trying the 'funny-handshakes' and nonsense arguments.

People won't buy it anymore....

SAY NO TO POLICE STATE TERROR!



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Do they REALLY expect people to buy this pile of manure????? Yeah, we ALL know how guns and tasers "look" and work the same right? I call BS! You know what's even more pathetic about this? Is that the judge will more than likely take the officer's word. That's usually how it goes. Though I hope the video evidence will be more than sufficient to where he won't be able to get away with it.

If I had been one of his "fellow" officers present, I would've turned around, taken my gun and arrested HIM on the spot for murder.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Question]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by googolplex
 


I mentioned that in an earlier post and Yes, if he had Tased the victim while the other officers were in contact with him, they also could haver been Tased by conduction. They go through training to make sure they never fire a Taser when anyone is in contact with the intended target.

The Whole Taser defense is a scam as the evidence shows. See my post on page ONE of this thread for Photos

[edit on 31/1/09 by Terapin]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Well, this will make some of the folks here who were defending him giddy, as that was the excuse they were giving behind what happened. lol.

This guy was wrong no matter what ridiculous excuse he tries to come up with---The guy was laying face down with another officers knee pinning him into the ground. He posed no threat, so even the taser excuse is laughable. There was no need to draw ANY weapon at that point, he was subdued.

If this guy skates, expect all hell to break loose.


If this guy "skates" I expect people to take the law into their own hands and make him pay if necessary. Stupidity is no excuse for no accountability. I want him held accountable, and if our judicial system can't do it, then let the people do it! In the end, it will be better for him if he lets the judge make him pay than the people. People CAN be more brutal than a prison warden.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Terapin
reply to post by googolplex
 


I mentioned that in an earlier post and Yes, if he had Tased the victim while the other officers were in contact with him, they also could haver been Tased by conduction. They go through training to make sure they never fire a Taser when anyone is in contact with the intended target.

The Whole Taser defense is a scam as the evidence shows. See my post on page ONE of this thread for Photos

[edit on 31/1/09 by Terapin]


To elaborate on your point, Police always get training on how to use and carry firearms and tasers BEFORE being issued with them. Your rpoint about conduction makes their argument completely worthless - to us public anyway! I'm sure the masonic judge will see it differently though.

Heads will (must) roll...



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Well, this will make some of the folks here who were defending him giddy, as that was the excuse they were giving behind what happened. lol.

This guy was wrong no matter what ridiculous excuse he tries to come up with---The guy was laying face down with another officers knee pinning him into the ground. He posed no threat, so even the taser excuse is laughable. There was no need to draw ANY weapon at that point, he was subdued.

If this guy skates, expect all hell to break loose.


If this guy "skates" I expect people to take the law into their own hands and make him pay if necessary. Stupidity is no excuse for no accountability. I want him held accountable, and if our judicial system can't do it, then let the people do it! In the end, it will be better for him if he lets the judge make him pay than the people. People CAN be more brutal than a prison warden.



Won't happen. This is not the first time such an event has taken place.

Public can't and won't take 'law' into their own hands. In UK, Canada it will become illegal to photograph the Police!

P.S. Remember DeMenezes (in UK)?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Jinni]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MegaCurious
 


NEGATING ANY CRIMINAL INTENT?

I'm sorry..

When a death occurs and it was "not meant to occur" .. is that not Manslaughter (at the VERY LEAST??)

I don't care how young he was, how new he was. He killed a man, accident or not. He deserves a prison sentence.


Yep, we were taught this even in HIGH SCHOOL for crying out loud. It was usually before Prom, we had local police stop by and tell us that if you drive drunk, kill somebody without meaning to, it was STILL considered manslaughter since your car becomes a "weapon"



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Jinni

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Well, this will make some of the folks here who were defending him giddy, as that was the excuse they were giving behind what happened. lol.

This guy was wrong no matter what ridiculous excuse he tries to come up with---The guy was laying face down with another officers knee pinning him into the ground. He posed no threat, so even the taser excuse is laughable. There was no need to draw ANY weapon at that point, he was subdued.

If this guy skates, expect all hell to break loose.


If this guy "skates" I expect people to take the law into their own hands and make him pay if necessary. Stupidity is no excuse for no accountability. I want him held accountable, and if our judicial system can't do it, then let the people do it! In the end, it will be better for him if he lets the judge make him pay than the people. People CAN be more brutal than a prison warden.



Won't happen. This is not the first time such an event has taken place.

Public can't and won't take 'law' into their own hands. In UK, Canada it will become illegal to photograph the Police!

P.S. Remember DeMenezes (in UK)?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Jinni]


Yeah, I hearcd about that joke of a law that will get into effect in Feb. But I still have hope people will resist and not follow it.
You know what worries me about that law though? is that, since it could be considered "illegal" is that even if you present footage/pictures of officers misbehaving. The footage can be dismissed as evidence since "you were not supposed to do that"
In either case. Since I read this article, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps more neighborhood watch should prop up in our countries so we don't have to rely on the police AT ALL!
I can tell you from having lived in a south american country, thieves were more afraid of civilians in neighborhoods than the cops. Because neighbors would get together and chase, beat up, torture, INTERROGATE the thief, get all the info and stolen stuff from them, BEFORE they even called the police.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by JKersteJr
Originally posted by Alyosha1981

We could say that the suspect/victim was attracted to the thrill of fighting police officers as it pertains to showing his "homies" how tough he was.


Please...I get what your trying to do here, you take public outrage at a seemingly clear case of video taped police negligence and insert your ridiculous, unrealistic, proposed scenario as a last resort to explain the officers action. I don't wanna bring anymore race issues to the thread but I gotta say your choice of the word "homies" speaks volumes, seriously...if that man was white his "homies" would have been "friends/buddies", in fact if he were white I'd wager you never would have suggested it at all.

Bottom line, I'm not gonna jump to the conclusion that the cop meant to kill him, that honestly seems far fetched in THIS situation. However, the fact that we have a picture of the shooters' belt/holster devoid of any taser should be enough to throw that arguement right out the window.

[edit on 1/31/2009 by JKersteJr]


This statement I made in no way reflects any racist intent as you implied without putting it into words. How do you know exactly what the wording would have been, had the victim been white? answer.. you don't know just like we don't know all of the facts in the case plain and simple.

I'm not discounting the loss of life and I'm not saying the former officer made the "right" choice either. I'm simply pointing out the variables and trying to voice my opinion in favor of rationalizing the situation instead of jumping to conclusions as many have.My opinions are in no way fueled by the race of any involved. Justice is a fickle undertaking and the police do not always render decisions that the public agrees with.

Taking in consideration the time prior to the shot being fired, we do not know what took place and until the trial begins to unfold it will remain so. I do agree in the use of force continuum I use it myself, however there are circumstances that allow one to "skip" levels when needed. Do I know why the former officer chose not to utilize other less lethal means? No I don't and I have never claimed to. I will remain convicted to my belief that the former officer made a mistake, but did not intentionaly commit murder.

I will also stick to my belief that it's easy to pick apart one's actions after the fact but the constant is that we were not there and will never be able to truly understand why the former officer made the choice that he made.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by bizone
 


The video here clearly shows a struggle, but the audio is unclear. We do not know if the victim made any threats to the officers or attempted to retreive a possible weapon or contraband of some kind, I simply pointed that out previously I never said that in fact he had a weapon or threatened to use one. The gang involvement is pure speculation on my part and I have no evidence, only a hunch that the officers know their "beat" well and responded with the numbers suggesting preparedness for violence. The other thing I'll point out is that the former officer did not pull his weapon take time to aim and then fire, he struggled to draw it in the first place and only fired it a split second latter.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


I will have to disagree with your "Split Second" time line. If you have watched the other videos, you can see that he began to draw a weapon from his right side while he was still crouched down or kneeling. He then stood, took a partial step back, and fired.

He did not act in a professional manner as he did not follow the procedural "Use of Force Continuum" which all officers are trained in. He should have used his baton or pepper spray first, which he was indeed carrying. His actions were improper according to BART policies and training.

I believe it was an accident, but it it still manslaughter. There is no valid excuse for shooting and killing the victim.

[edit on 31/1/09 by Terapin]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by g raj
 


too bad i forgot to link the article
carlosmiller.com...



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by MegaCurious


Okay, now who buys this??

You have a video that clearly shows him yanking hard at his gun, pointing his gun and pulling the trigger. A gun and a taser don't even work the same, don't feel the same, don't taste the same... shall I go on about how they are just completely different??

Once they say this guy is innocent, they'll riot on this like crazy.

www.ktvu.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



And the best part about it all is you can clearly see that there was NO need for even the use of a tazer.

The guy was being cooperative. This is total BS. So if I shoot someone I could just say I diddn't know I was shooting a handgun, I thought it was fake or a tazer?????



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981
reply to post by bizone
 


The video here clearly shows a struggle, but the audio is unclear. We do not know if the victim made any threats to the officers or attempted to retreive a possible weapon or contraband of some kind, I simply pointed that out previously I never said that in fact he had a weapon or threatened to use one. The gang involvement is pure speculation on my part and I have no evidence, only a hunch that the officers know their "beat" well and responded with the numbers suggesting preparedness for violence. The other thing I'll point out is that the former officer did not pull his weapon take time to aim and then fire, he struggled to draw it in the first place and only fired it a split second latter.


First of all, you hit the nail on the head when you mention that Mehserle struggled to draw his weapon. That's because a gun holster like the police wear have a mechanism that holds the gun in place unless you press the button down. Mehserle absolutely knew which weapon he grabbed, because he had to unlock his gun from the holster. That, and it's a big, heavy metal object that weighs, feels and looks a lot different than a taser.

So the video "clearly" shows a struggle with Grant? Okay, most people in defense of the officer claim that none of these videos "clearly" show what is happening. Yet you claim it CLEARLY shows a struggle.

I don't see it. I see Grant completely cooperating and being manhandled by the officers. There is perhaps a second or two when Grants hands are at his side before the officer forces them behind his back to cuff him. This does not signify any sort of intentional resisting of arrest (and arrest for what, I might add).

I myself have seen in person, on TV and even experienced first hand the "stop resisting" phenomenon that surrounds people with a badge. While surrounded by police that had their automatic rifles and handguns pointed at me, I was ordered to get on the ground. I kept my hands up and in plain view, and as soon as I got on one knee, I was kicked in my back and tackled. This was all without provocation, and I should mention that I was also in my sleeping clothes.

This is how cops act.

I firmly believe that what happened was a moment of a major power trip and uncontrollable rage on Mehserle's part.

As for people saying that the "masonic" Judge is going to let him skate...Well, if you take the time to read everything, you would see that the Judge has already dismissed the defense presented by the defense attorney for the bail hearing.

To be continued....



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by LeTan
I call shaninigans. He's an officer of the law and can't tell the diffrence in WEIGHT alone, of his handgun and his taser? Not to mention the obvious LOOk of the weapon? Back in history warriors didn't swing randomly, they knew their weapons well. This is an outrage and a cover story.

Even the average citizen can tell the diffrence between these two weapons on touch ALONE.








Great post thanks for the pic links.

The grips are totally different with the handgun haveing rigid grips that form to fingers kinda or are made to be gripped as such.

The tazer has no finger indentations on the grip...It is smooth. If he couldn't tell just from the feel, then he doesnt deserve to carry the weapon.


Also something nobody ever mentions is that He was kneeling on or next to the guy, He would have tazerd himself by tazering the guy and beign in such close proximity and possibly even touching him like it looked like in the video.


Any jury or judge who believes that BS deserves to be shipped out of our country never to return. We don't need people like that cop or anybody who is too dumb too believe him in our country at all.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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This entire event has turned into a political platform for all of the local “cop-hater” groups to get their 15 minutes of fame and for the local politicians to secure their future elections. Three million dollars bail is WAY extreme for one count of manslaughter, ESPECIALLY considering the amount of ties this officer has to the area. As already stated, the only reason he was in Nevada was to protect himself and his family from the numerous credible threats on their lives. Hell, last night on the news they threatened that if the justice system did not properly punish him…”they” (the fine citizens of Oakland) would. I spoke with over a dozen of the areas “finest” last night who are hoping things go from bad to worse so they can get out their guns and shoot it out with the police.

The judge in this case should be demoted to running small claims court and a Judge Judy style TV show for eternity. There is no room for bowing to political pressure in the court room. I can pull the bails for over half the accused murder suspects in Alameda County and they are less than 3 million. I know of folks with multiple murder counts AND prior gang ties who have less bails than Officer Mehserle. This is a shame and mockery of the judicial system.

My thoughts and prayers are with Officer Mehserle and his family for the injustice they are enduring to appease a group of people who have no respect for the laws of this land, themselves or anyone else.


[edit on 31-1-2009 by Agent877]



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