Defense: BART Shooting Cop Meant To Use Taser

Being a gun-advocate, I have fired tons of handguns. Through my work, I've also interacted with officers who have let me see and handle their taser. I'm having difficulty understanding how an officer can mistake the two. First, most police-issued tasers have bright yellow on them (usually stripes). Tasers look differently than most police-issued regular guns - they are more square/rectangular/boxier shaped (do a google image search and you'll know what I mean). They also feel very differently (weight, etc.) in your hands. Even if my adrenalin was pumping hard, I could easily tell the difference between the two. I just don't buy that story.

I told you that's what he'd do.

No, really I did... way back here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm willing to bet the officer will attempt to claim he 'thought' he was grabbing his Taser.

Was I ever on the money.

At the time I knew he would attempt to use the incompetence defense.
He clearly knew it wasn't his taser... the weight would have given it away immediately.

But... it's better to appear incompetent than vicious to a jury.


... I said I was willing to bet... I should have taken actual wagers.

From the footage that I saw, I do not see where he would be justified using a taser anyway, anymore than a gun.

reply to post by MegaCurious


NEGATING ANY CRIMINAL INTENT?

I'm sorry..

When a death occurs and it was "not meant to occur" .. is that not Manslaughter (at the VERY LEAST??)

I don't care how young he was, how new he was. He killed a man, accident or not. He deserves a prison sentence.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
But why on earth would he try and intentionally kill a guy who isn't struggling?

Good question.

He should be subjected to one of TPTB's DRUG TESTS, at the least!

Originally posted by johnsky
... I said I was willing to bet... I should have taken actual wagers.

Well, no cash, but it did earn you a star.

[edit on 31/1/09 by NuclearPaul]

if this defense stands and is upheld in the court of law then we damn well better riot

if thats not a reason to riot then i dont know what is

but it needs to be a proper riot, not against civilians and industries and workplaces

not even against military or political buildings

strictly against law enforcement, police, and district attorneys for being completely corrupt and for abandoning all respect for civilian life and rights


there are very VERY few times i rationally believe violence must take place, but this is one of them as all other options have failed and are failing

almost every week, if not daily, there are reports of police brutality and abuse of power. constantly district attorneys back these law enforcement officials up

there are constantly civilian reports, and professional reports including a report that was based on a study done in hospitals where even doctors and nurses report a drastically high occurrence of police brutality cases and even they say they have nothing they can do about it, not even a standard protocol to report such things

when the corrupt tyrants put the peoples back against the wall and offer themselves no other solution civilization must do what is necessary to protect themselves and that includes taking the power back from the "protectors"

on top of forcing events to take place that will put these law enforcement officials back in their place, events must happen to change the way tasers are being used, if the courts find that it is actually a reasonable scenario that he mistook his taser for a gun, we must take away all tasers to avoid that mistake Ever again.

yes i believe tasers are dangerous, but i do believe they CAN be a much better thing then guns, HOWEVER any weapon in the hands of a corrupt tyrant is wrong, and no matter how safe tasers are made, no matter how many safety protocols are put in place, if the person using them is malicious and tyranically corrupt they will always be dangerous to society


hopefully none of it has to go that far, hopefully the D.A. does the job properly and punishes this piece of crap the way he deserves and instills a sense of fear into these corrupt individuals that stain our society with a black eye

reply to post by MegaCurious


There is so much injustice in this world, if I had shot this poor young man I would have no chance but because the pig was a cop he gets away with it. I truly hope an angry mob delivers punishment.

Im tired of it, Im tired of every criminal having their way with good innocent people. I am sick and tired of it it gets so hard to see any good in the world when murderous cops and criminals of the like get away with their disguting crimes.

(1st) they shluld definatly move the trial out of the area( way out ) because the man will not get a fair trial if they don't. I'll use this thread as an example and contained all herin, who sugguest the former officer's a cold blooded murderer. Stop and think for a moment about the position he was in, I'll tell you right now he would have been justified to deploy his taser so for the sake of disscussion imagine yourself in his shoes. How many of you actually carry? (i see a show of hands) now how many of you actually have had to use (legally) physical force to restrain an induvidual?

Does the fact that the officer a "rookie" only carried the taser for a few shifts before the incident? and that quite possibly, in the heat of the moment, all factors considered ( adrenaline, suspects actions ect ect) that he did in fact attempt to use the taser, but out of training and instinct deployed his firearm instead? Now I'll tell you, yes you the "armchair quarterback" that has never done this kind of work that during a takedown especially one that is becoming violent, time and focus go out the window and your training "kicks in" now with that said considder the amount of training recieved in firearms compared with the 6 hour training in the use of the taser.

IMO, the former officer reacted to a threat ( perception is reality) and acted upon his level of training resulting in a tragic accident not murder not manslaughter. I'd be happy to debate on this one as I see the ignorance on this subject abounds on this thread, any other law enforcement officers want to come forward and voice some opinions?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

Because of the high profile nature of this case, the best option the courts can have on the tables at the moment is jail time.

Look at it this way, the people want this guy punished, with jail time the people get what they want.
On top of that, there are likely many people from his home area that want him dead, if he's in jail he's protected from them.

If I were the judge, that's what I'd be pushing for.


On the other hand, he might fall into a loophole as so many other police misconduct cases often do.


So, I can see one of two things happen.
1: (Most likely) He gets jail time, probably a few years, in which case he's punished and protected at the same time. Giving people time to forget their incredible rage toward him, not that they should.
2: He falls into a loophole and gets released, (+ fired from his job of course), and is targeted by quite a few angry people, he may even wind up a victim of murder himself within a couple of years.

Anyhow, that's how I see things panning out.

I can tell a lot of people posting on this thread have never been in a life or death situation or even close. Im not defending the cop, but when your involved in a situation like that cop, sometimes your brain can zone out on you, and your senses arnt the same, Its really hard to explain but its like all of a sudden your in a dream, you dont feel the same your hearing dwindles down, you might not respond to someone calling your name from one foot across from you, you almost feel numb and light headness, and as a result you might do something that you dont really realize your doing. and it takes a few minutes to zap out from it. I really dont think this cop was thinking to himself " I just wanna kill this guy" or I could kill him right now and get away with it" I think it was a mistake clear and simple.

reply to post by tac109


I agree very much so, it's hard to keep focus during an incident, let alone refuse training and the mistake part is true, unfortunatly the consences here apparently cops arn't alowed to make mistakes.

reply to post by alyosha1981


The man he shot and killed was pinned to the ground and had three other officers on top of him, at that point he was completely subdued and should not have even been tasered. He should have been handcuffed.

This cop is a murderer plain and simple.

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

The man he shot and killed was pinned to the ground and had three other officers on top of him, at that point he was completely subdued and should not have even been tasered. He should have been handcuffed.

This cop is a murderer plain and simple.

When a suspect lockes their hands together under themselves near their stomach, it can sometimes take 4 officers to un do them, the leverage is just not there. Also that gives the suspect a chance to possibly remove and use a weapon they had concealed in their waistline, given that nobody has x-ray vision the oficers must assume and treat a situation as if a weapon could be present.

We've gone over this before and it's repetitive do some research before making bandwagon accusations.

reply to post by alyosha1981


They had him subdued, they had a knee on his head and a knee in his back he hasnt able to move and unless you can turn your arms 360 degrees to use a weapon then I might believe your argument. He was in a position where he posed little threat to the police.

You can clearly see the officer reach back for his gun they keep the guns and tasers on opposite sides of the belt to avoid any confusion between the two and the officer has been an officer for two years now. After an extended period you become familiar with where your gun is placed. Not only that but taser is colored bright yellow.

reply to post by Lazyninja


"But why on earth would he try and intentionally kill a guy who isn't struggling? "

It feels so damn good. That is why.

*Humans receive a pleasure-stimulus from killing and sometime that desire for stimulus overrides logical thinking;

Why do you think serial killers have such a difficult time stopping?

Why do some people enjoy torturing others?

Answer: Because it Feels good to them. They derive pleasures from the act which cannot be found within any other task or act.


*Basically, this cop was just pleasuring himself publicly. His brain wanted that pleasure stimulus and he used Oscar Grant's Life to get it. Albeit, some pleasure is derived from taser-torture, but clearly not nearly enough to satiate Mehserle's desire for pleasure stimulus.

It appears that Mehserle may have had developed a 'tolerance' and now has to perform increasingly cruel actions in order to achieve the same level of pleasure - like an addict or a serial killer/torturer.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

They had him subdued, they had a knee on his head and a knee in his back he hasnt able to move and unless you can turn your arms 360 degrees to use a weapon then I might believe your argument. He was in a position where he posed little threat to the police.

You can clearly see the officer reach back for his gun they keep the guns and tasers on opposite sides of the belt to avoid any confusion between the two and the officer has been an officer for two years now. After an extended period you become familiar with where your gun is placed. Not only that but taser is colored bright yellow.

The taser is only "bright yellow" in the middle, as stated in earlyer posts the mind is clouded during a confrontation, the victim here IMO is the former officer. The suspect should have done what the officers were telling him to do he should have cooperated' why was he he fighting them? why was he resisting? what was he trying to hide? why was he fighting on the transit system to begin with? wasn't the fight gang related?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

reply to post by alyosha1981


Again I say the officer had enough training, the aser weighs half as much as a service pistol and in order to reach for the taser he would have had to reach across his body.

There was no way he could have made a mistake that stupid. maybe if it was his first day but it wasnt.

I dont care what the fight was about, I dont care why he wasnt listening and still the taser is BRIGHT YELLOW the service pistol is solid black. How do you mess that up?

the taser is lighter than a gun, it has yellow on it so it doesnt look like a gun and the taser is on the opposite side of his body.

He clearly reaches for the gun, if he wasnt used to the taser why didnt he go for his pepper spray instead?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by caballero]

reply to post by alyosha1981



"The taser is only "bright yellow" in the middle,"

Correct.

The officer/killer could not have missed that - especially with it held out in front of him.

Nice try!

Cheers!

reply to post by Exuberant1


Thats right he stood up while he drew his gun and then held the gun directly in front of him.

He saw the gun as he shot it, he felt the weight difference and most importantly he had pepper spray to use in the event that he didnt have a taser.

All good arguments indeed, and in fact probably very accurate, however nobody knows why the confussion took place and the official defence will be just that. The former officer's defence team will have the burden of proving exactly how the "mix up " occured. I was not there and to the best of my knowledge none of you were either. It should be pointed out as well that none of the two other officers involved reacted to not seeing the yellow of the taser either, so the whole "yellow thing" IMO is out the window and Exuberant1, it was not a try it was a rational attempt at explination, unlike your "self pleasure theory"