Another lie in christianity exposed?

Originally posted by pureevil81


If this is all pre-destined to happen, Why then does it have to happen? Why do people have to suffer?

Thank you newday...

Death cannot beget life, we are dead creatures.

Travail and labor is a woman's curse to receive the life of her child.

Is a baby born only to despise his mothers pain?

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Today's installment from WIG'N ( What Is God Network )

WIG'N #NO 18 Title: Touching God
/ae54w3

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[edit on 3-2-2009 by newday]

reply to post by newday


I'm not sure I understand what youre getting at.... are you comparing a mothers birthing pains to the world... like what jesus talked of in matthew?

I am trying to understand your point of view, I read this... www.foxven.com...

Could you clarify a bit more, please?

The disciples expected Jesus to set up his kingdom immediately. They believed he was the Messiah, and the Messiah would have a kingdom, so wasn't it time for Jesus to set it up? They did not understand the concept of the "suffering Messiah" and they were looking instead for the "conquering Messiah." The question they asked Jesus grouped everything together — destruction of the temple, Jesus' coming (rising to power), and the end of the age — because they expected him to set up his earthly kingdom soon. So their question was basically, "How soon?"

www.foxven.com...

What is this talk of two messiahs? A " suffering messiah " and a " conquering messiah "?

Where does this come from?

Sorry for jumping around a bit here, But I really do want an explanation.

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by newday

 

I'm not sure I understand what youre getting at.... are you comparing a mothers birthing pains to the world... like what jesus talked of in matthew?

I am trying to understand your point of view, I read this... www.foxven.com...

Could you clarify a bit more, please?

To live in spirit we must first be born of flesh.

If we are dead in this world without spirit, is it merciful of God to allow the dead to suffer pain that the yet to live might be born, or is it evil?

Would a man suffer a wait for his sister in desire of reconciliation?

If a thing is received of the spirit and brought into flesh it must of necessity be understood of the spirit to be understood of the flesh.

The flesh is insufficient to receive of itself the breath of God from another man, because only God can revive the dead.

The truth is a spiritual thing and it can not be analyzed by physical means alone, it must first be ascertained spiritually.

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Today's installment from WIG'N ( What Is God Network )

WIG'N #NO 18 Title: Touching God
/ae54w3

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[edit on 3-2-2009 by newday]

There is a huge children's hospital a few miles away from me. Please explain to me how all those suffering children are all part of god's plan. Please.

Originally posted by griffinrl
There is a huge children's hospital a few miles away from me. Please explain to me how all those suffering children are all part of god's plan. Please.

I feel you friend with the whole how could God allow all this suffering thing, but its not part of any plan God has....

The dead will bury the dead and the living will live on...

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Today's installment from WIG'N ( What Is God Network )

WIG'N #NO 18 Title: Touching God
/ae54w3

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reply to post by newday


As a man with no children or living family, if it was possible, I would happily trade my "eternal soul" for any and all of these suffering children. Right now. Period. Somewhow though I doubt any deity will take me up on my offer.

Originally posted by newday

Originally posted by griffinrl
There is a huge children's hospital a few miles away from me. Please explain to me how all those suffering children are all part of god's plan. Please.

I feel you friend with the whole how could God allow all this suffering thing, but its not part of any plan God has....

The dead will bury the dead and the living will live on...

You just said a few posts back that everything is going according to the plan, but this doesnt fit into the plan?

I dont see the logic, as what you speak of requires faith at least to an extent.

For me, I do believe in one true god, But do I believe that he left us his " word ", No I dont. I believe the prophecies in the bible are being forced to fruition by people behind the scenes with the means to make it all happen.... what is happening now in the world WE allow to happen, I dont think it has ever been " set in stone ".

I do however greatly appreciate everything you have said here, I just dont agree.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all. I'm just making an offer that I stand behind. Why would god create me and allow this to happen to children? To me it's a horrible thought to even contemplate worshipping something like that. That's just my opinion. Not any kind of personal attack on anyone.

reply to post by griffinrl


Right, I have only offered my opinion as well.

I feel pretty much the same way, if a loving god could allow this to happen as is, then I want no part of it.

I dont think this is gods doing, I have heard god and felt god, The bible, IMO of course, is not god.

I am saying jesus is not god, based on the old testament, or the tenakh... and that the things happening in the world are mans doing, mis-lead by the supposed " word of god ".

Everything in this thread appears to be opinion, so offering yours is good as well.

Take care.

Again offering my opinion....you can't prove any lies in Christianity because it's dogma has never been proven to be true

I was raised in a fundamentalist Pentecostal household...believe me these hardcore "beliefs" shaped my own belief system. I'm not agnostic or ignorant of religion. Quite the opposite

[edit on 3-2-2009 by griffinrl]

Originally posted by griffinrl
Again offering my opinion....you can't prove any lies in Christianity because it's dogma has never been proven to be true

You got me there.

I have always been a christian and always accepted the same answers being given here, Now later in life I am not afraid to ask the questions most do not dare to ask.. although I am not of any religion now, for the record.

Thank you for adding your 2 cents.



[edit on 3-2-2009 by pureevil81]

Originally posted by pureevil81

The disciples expected Jesus to set up his kingdom immediately. They believed he was the Messiah, and the Messiah would have a kingdom, so wasn't it time for Jesus to set it up? They did not understand the concept of the "suffering Messiah" and they were looking instead for the "conquering Messiah." The question they asked Jesus grouped everything together — destruction of the temple, Jesus' coming (rising to power), and the end of the age — because they expected him to set up his earthly kingdom soon. So their question was basically, "How soon?"

www.foxven.com...

What is this talk of two messiahs? A " suffering messiah " and a " conquering messiah "?

Where does this come from?

Sorry for jumping around a bit here, But I really do want an explanation.

When Jesus came he came lowly riding on an ass as a humble servant
He will be back again only as a conquering King ...

PS >.The Jews believe he has not even come yet they did not understand the scriptures that says he would come first lowly and humble as servant .
So they are still waiting for this conquering King (First) ..which is why the Jews will fall for the Antichrist temporarily ) ...they will think he is the Moshiach (thats what they call him) ..

Jesus second coming will happen at the end of everything (The Mark the AC etc ) .....and he then conquers the AC and his minions ...etc ...


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


That much is understood already simplynoone, is that an assumed two messiahs, kinda like the " rapture ", or is it actually written there would be 2 messiahs? if it is, I must have missed it.

reply to post by pureevil81


My pleasure It's nice to be able to have "disagreements" without things being personal. I've always felt that those who immediately feel personally attacked already have some sort of doubt or question about their beliefs anyway or my words wouldn't impact them in a negative way.

I ask simple questions that should have simple answers IMO.

Not 2 Messiahs ...2 comings of the same Messiah ..
2 different events ...same Messiah ...


Oh I see what your asking ....there is plenty of scriptures that described what would happen the first coming of Christ ....(although the Jews still to this day do not believe there is ..there is ) they could not admit to it because then they would have to admit that their ancestors aided in killing their own Messiah and of course they are not going to do that ....Also they like to think that it is them who those scriptures are talking about (just ask Justamomma) ....(Or a tribe from the twelve tribes) Which what they are getting confused about is that the scriptures where it talks about them and the role they will play in it all is still yet to come .....during the thousand year rule of Christ they will also be ruling with him (which will fulfill those unfulfilled prophecy concerning them in the OT >

Most of the scriptures about Christ were somewhat hidden until he came ..(But not completely ...John the Baptist certainly knew and prepared others before Christ even came ..which was why there was such a gathering when he first came to town on that donkey) .......



[edit on 3-2-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Right....

So maybe I am just not understanding, but where is that written?

You always quote scripture, so quote some scripture and show me where this is written, preferably using the tenakh.

pureevil let me also make it clear that I'm in no way implying that you or other believers should abandon their beliefs. Not at all! And I think that someone like yourself who does ask the hard questions...well I would hope that a true and loving God would appreciate a believer who comes to him after asking such things.

Sadly most Christians always resort to the old, tired threats of my eternal damnnation because I myself am not a believer. But I know inside it's their own fear of having the same doubts in their mind.

reply to post by griffinrl


I can tell you have your head on straight.

If someone gets offended by me or anyone else offering their opinion, no matter how whacky it may be, then maybe their " faith " isnt what it should be then huh?

I can disagree and not be offended, but take a look at what has been distributed on this thread by certain people, why would they even care? why do they feel the need to bash me?

If someone wants to believe they are going to live in a marshmallow paradise or whatever it may be... then cool.

I have on the other hand been pleasantly surprised by some " believers " who have actually offered some thoughts that really rang true without the threat of hellfire, or the many other threats.

I believe what I believe, and tomorrow it could change.

reply to post by pureevil81


Being from the South (I'm right outside of Little Rock, AR so everyone feel free to bash me for being an ignorant southerner ) it's been my literal experience that religion is taught with an extreme emphasis on fear, pain, misery, torment, etc. This isn't a rational way to begin a study of a belief system...especially by children. It's my belief that many Christians even consider thinking doubting thoughts is a straight road to hell.

They bash you because they are insecure in their beliefs...simple as that. And it's not even you that they are bashing but really the rational part of their minds trying to work things out. If you have faith...then how could anything that I possibly opine affect your beliefs?

Another example maybe.....my wife is an extremely attractive woman. The only men that harass her on a regular basis at her work are the "religious" ones...that's a fact. They use the excuse of "witnessing" to spend time alone with her.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by griffinrl]