*China considering dropping U.S. Treasuries and Buying Gold Instead*Very Important News- Implication

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Originally posted by amatrine
It might actually be a good thing for America.

China stops buying our debt, we stop allowing China merchandise in the USA.

Now all that cheap crap that comes from China now gets bought again in the USA creating more jobs at home. Would not happen overnight, but we did not get in this position overnight.

If China and other foreign countries stop buying our debt, then the entire country becomes insolvent, almost overnight. Have you been paying attention to what's happening with California? No money, no tax returns, cutting state employees work weeks, etc?

Imagine that on a scale that encompasses the entire US, including your elected officials.

This is not a good thing, if the US becomes insolvent, then we end up like Iceland, bankrupt. Iceland's government fell this week, soon they will no longer be a sovereign nation.

Is that what you want to see in the US?

If China stops buying US Treasuries, it may indeed signal a whole host of destabilizing actions. However things may unfold, know this, that the multi-trillion dollar bailouts and stimulus programs the Federal government is doing are by themselves all inflationary by nature. Add onto this the never ending and rising debt obligations of the Federal government, the shortage of funds the State governments all have, and the decrepit road network and public water systems, and one thing is unavoidable - an ongoing economic crisis of the highest magnitude.

Now, it is possible that there could be a string of unforseen and miraculous events that would derail this path: invention and application of free renewable energy, the dismantling of all nuclear arsenals, the conversion of radical Islam to a pro-western stance, and the sudden resurgence of American Industrial might. However, these things are much less likely than the scenario painted in the first paragraph.

As an individual - the best single action that could be done is to transfer a portion of your wealth into something that is tangible, liquid, and globally recognized as a monetary istrument. Gold answers that call like nothing else (yes a barrel of oid might also qualify, but it would take 20 barrels to equal a single ounce of gold). Anyone that travels frequently overseas can easily see that gold holds a place of respect far above its status in North America. In Asia, many purchase it on a monthly basis (sort of like our IRAs), in the Middle East the Gold Souqs are full of people buying gold, in Europe one can walk into many banks and buy gold coins from a teller. Take a British Sovereign into a store in Africa or South America and see if they can't convert it for you.

Why Gold? What's so specail about it? There are many who wax elequent on its many fascinating properties; but for me, there is one simple reason why gold is gold, and everything else is merely a substitute: You either have gold or you don't. There's no faking it, no impersonationing it, no conjuring it out of thin air - physical gold is tangible.

To those that ask where it may be purchased, I recommend www. Tulving.com - a well respected bullion dealer out of California. His charges are reasonable and his delivery quick. Other sites mentioned in this thread - not so much. Another option is buying gold coins on Ebay. But please research the seller and ensure they have a good rating - when selling gold (as opposed to selling 50 doll outfits for $2 each then taking your thousand dollar plus gold purchasae and disappearing).

No one can foretell the future, but gold is as close to an economic insurance policy as a common man (woman) can get.

I could have sworn that the dollar was backed by gold. like, you know, fort knox, where they happen to have a Snip-ton of gold. if gold jumped nearly $20.00 in one day, isnt that a great thing for the dollar?

all you Madmax/waterworld cats need to realize the absurdity of trading gold specs for a sandwich. Im not saying it would never come to that, because no one knows.

Im all for making my life easier so when i have kids one day they wont be born into debt or stupidity. If you think it takes a long time for your credit card to run at the store, imagine if everyone in line had to weigh out their little nuggets....

[edit on 30-1-2009 by drsmooth23]

This will happen, America is not worth anything anymore, its like a used up tramp. shes been ran all over and tossed aside......the question is not if its going to happen its how soon is it going to happen. like people have been saying buy supplies now, and find a safe place to make a fort and hold it down because from here on out its going to get worse and boy, let me tell you were all in for a hell of a ride, and its not going to be pretty its going to be bloody and its going to probably happen in my lifetime. why worry about polotics because when this happens you are not going to have polotics all you are going to think about is how long should i sleep tonight i hope no one comes while im trying to get a quick nap in im getting tired.....this is reality guys, welcome to the world of 2009

In the end i'm not really sure if China would be that stupid. In a way would this not only kill the chinese economy? I mean if they stop buying the US debt and the US becomes insolvent overnight. then who in the hell is going to buy all the chinese exports?

I think more and more that the chinese are as dependant on the states as my country Canada is?

Correct me if im wrong because i am by no means an expert on any of this. I honestly dont think anyone can predict what is coming. Has anything on this scale been seen before. The great depression was bad but this this is nothing compared to it considering the global economy these days.

Ok so in all reality, if we stop trade agreements with China don't you suppose that they would suffer more than us?

Edit to say that we actually send them the materials such as wood, steel and other important basics to use in their factories for making products to sell back to us. So if we stop shipping the materials and instead focus on the return of the American factories it would be their fate being sealed.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by antar]

reply to post by questioningall



excellent post! I've watched the price of gold rise and looked into the cause of the frenzy.

You are absolutely right that China, more than anyone else, will determine whether we can borrow ourselves out of this with Treasury bonds, bills and notes.

Just yesterday there was a discussion of the Fed's intention to "monetize" our debt by buying Treasuries themselves with Federal Notes.

We are spinning ourselves into a valueless dollar, don;t you think?

The Dallas Fed has already contemplated negative interest on deposits! In other words, the banks want to CHARGE you, up to 6% as of now, for your deposits! (there will be "tax stamp" affixed to cash that allows you to spend it only if you've paid the 6% each quarter)

Thanks for the great research and insight.

s & f

deny ignorance

jw

hey ye old geeezer i rekon my dad did learned me well, i pitch a ten next to ye ol coop and cast a flint over yon der don light me up some timber have some good ol cookin tonight, den i go tak me a shower in the river amen, den wees go to the market and gets som more fellers and head to the bank watcha say partn'ur

Originally posted by drsmooth23
I could have sworn that the dollar was backed by gold. like, you know, fort knox, where they happen to have a Snip-ton of gold. if gold jumped nearly $20.00 in one day, isnt that a great thing for the dollar?

all you Madmax/waterworld cats need to realize the absurdity of trading gold specs for a sandwich. Im not saying it would never come to that, because no one knows.

Im all for making my life easier so when i have kids one day they wont be born into debt or stupidity. If you think it takes a long time for your credit card to run at the store, imagine if everyone in line had to weigh out their little nuggets....

[edit on 30-1-2009 by drsmooth23]

OMG - where have you been, there are various threads and about 2 months ago, I posted information in a thread, detailing the fact (with links etc) that there is VERY SERIOUS DOUBTS that Fort Knox has ANY gold in it anymore.

The last time there was any accounting or inventory of the gold there was when Eisenhower was President.

Many groups have asked for an accouting of the gold in Fort Knox, but the govt. has never come up with one or a current inventory of the gold.

I was also listening about 2 months ago to a radio program with a metals expert;

He said "there was 'melt' on the market today, being sold in other countries". He continued saying "anyone who knows the metals market, knows that the melt is the U.S.'s 'melt'".

What does that mean?

Well, the U.S. is the only country that has ever confiscated their citizens gold, they then took it and 'melted' it. Thus the U.S. is the only country that has 'melt'.

What is the full implications of that? That means the "bottom of the barrel" is being reached of their gold stores by a certain party/country.

Now, you take that above news as you will and you figure out what "exactly" that means!

Originally posted by drsmooth23
I could have sworn that the dollar was backed by gold. like, you know, fort knox, where they happen to have a Snip-ton of gold. if gold jumped nearly $20.00 in one day, isnt that a great thing for the dollar?

Sorry, I didn't respond to this part, in my other post.

Sorry, Nixon took us off the "gold standard" in 1971. The dollar is not based on ANY standard, except the U.S.'s credit rating..... which we all know where that is going.

Originally posted by drsmooth23
I could have sworn that the dollar was backed by gold. like, you know, fort knox, where they happen to have a Snip-ton of gold. if gold jumped nearly $20.00 in one day, isnt that be a great thing for the dollar?

all you Madmax/waterworld cats need to realize the absurdity of trading gold specs for a sandwich. Im not saying it would never come to that, because no one knows.

Im all for making my life easier so when i have kids one day they wont be born into debt or stupidity. If you think it takes a long time for your credit card to run at the store, imagine if everyone in line had to weigh out their little nuggets....

Wow. You need to learn up on the US monetary system real fast.

The US Dollar is a Federal Reserve Note. The 'Federal Reserve' is a misnomer because is neither an official part of the US government nor are there 'reserves'. The Fed was given the authority to print money for the US Treasury in 1913. There is a fascinating history of how this came about and who has profited. In reality, nothing backs a Federal Reserve note. They print the notes and loan them to the US Treasury at interest. Yes, it sounds like a ginormous ponzi scheme... because it is. As long as there is somebody out there to purchase the debt then the machine keeps working. The problem is it is unsustainable.

Please, for the love of god, read up on some of these links. Watch the free movie/documentary Zeitgeist (parts 1 and 2).

The Federal Reserve - Its Origins, History & Current Strategy

YouTube: The Federal Reserve - Forgotten History

Zeitgeist the Movie

Fiat Currency: Common type of currency issued by official order, and whose value is based on the issuing authority's guarantee to pay the stated (face) amount on demand, and not on any intrinsic worth or extrinsic backing. All national currencies in circulation, issued and managed by the respective central banks, are fiat currencies.
--www.businessdictionary.com...

Originally posted by IlluminatiKarate
I guess all we can wait for now is the government seizure of gold like in the Great Depression. Either way, I'm sure the PTB would rather piss off the minority who invested in gold as opposed to the rest of the population who uses paper. Even with the collapse of the dollar, it's not the end of the world like those who want you to "buy gold" would have you believe... there's a replacement in the works. Anyone that's telling you to "get into gold" only wants to increase demand so THEIR investments go up.

even if the american government siezed the gold to prop up our economy, well, isn't that better than saudi arabia having that gold, and using it to prop up theirs?

if the currencies of the world, break down to that extent, well, the countries that have the most gold and other resources will be much better off than those that don't.

who know, maybe there will come a time when a bunch of those wacko, end of the world gold buyers will be able to pull their gold together, have it minted, and well, become the new banking barons. and, we can all play the game all over again.

reply to post by dawnstar



Saudi Arabi, purchased in Dec. 08 3.5 billions dollars of gold, in that month alone, I believe if you look all the countries have been purchasing gold and metals with their dollar reserves over the last few months.

They have helped prop up the dollar, and keeping it strong, so they can get out of it and buy metals with it.

Everyone else in the world (country leaders) have known what is coming down the line, and they have helped keep the dollar strong, so they could get rid of it first. They are not dumb, they could not let the dollar drop while they still held billions of it.

The MSM, just keeps the American people ignorant of what is happening, as that is where the majority of the people in the U.S. get their "real" news.

reply to post by questioningall

A popular and recurring conspiracy theory, as alleged by Edward Durrell, Norman Dodd, Peter Beter and others, claims that the vault is mostly empty and that most of the gold in Fort Knox was removed to Jerusalem in the late 1960s by President Lyndon Johnson.[4] In response, on September 23, 1974, Senator Walter Huddleston of Kentucky, twelve congressmen, and about 100 members of the news media toured the vault and opened various cells and doors, each filled with gold. Radio reporter Bill Evans, when asked if it seemed like the gold might have been moved in just for the visit, replied that "all I can say is that I saw gold there" and that it seemed like it was always there.[5] Additionally, audits of the gold by the General Accounting Office (in cooperation with the United States Mint and the United States Customs Service in 1974 and the Treasury Department) from 1975-1981 found no discrepancies between the reported and actual amounts of gold at the Depository.[6] However, the audit has been described as a peculiar process because it was only a partial audit done over an extended period of time.[7] The report states only 21 percent of the gold bars were audited as of 1981 (the audit report's issue date) and that the audit has "covered more than 212.7 million fine troy ounces of gold" which "represents over 80 percent of the total amount of United States-owned gold of 264.1 million fine troy ounces."[6] A small amount of gold is removed for regularly scheduled audits to ensure the purity matches official records.[1]

United States Bullion Depository - Conspiracy theory

reply to post by nydsdan


Yep it's all true...1933 Government Seized all private gold...1971 went off the gold standard...Fed charges Treasury to guarantee debt/credit rating...from the first penny you start borrowing you're done...when the Fed is the only "official" source of money and they charge for it how are you going to pay for that charge? You have to borrow more...with another fee...ect ect...US Taxes are to "help" cover these fee's/interest...but we as a total population will never get even/pay it off...

good thread

couple things.......USA is not going the way of ZIMBABWE will never reach that extreme.......we could have a very significant devaluation of the dollar if china's sell's off, or if central gov't sell off, or if there is a new bretton woods agreement and we lose the world reserve currency.....but in that situation it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that we LOSE 25% to 60% of the dollar's value in a short time..........so bascially the purchasing power/value of everyone's dollar saving's will cut between a quarter or perhaps as much as a bit more than half ........but no zimbabwe (they have 100 trillion dollar notes LOL)

Gold is a hell of a safe haven.......just look at the chart of gold in POUNDS this year.......the pound has taken a royal beating.......but as sure as the sun rises in the morning.........gold valued in pounds has soared........gold also does NOT NEED INFLATION to soar.......it needs a FEAR of growing GOV'T debt defaults and gov't credit rating cuts to incite a movement of money from gov't debt (bond's , bills, notes) into gold. Should govt's set up bad banks and insure the future LOSSES of Financial parasitic zombie corporations then the NOOSE moves from the banks to the Govt's and the govt's treasury departments begin to look they may default from too much debt.....this moves money out of gov't debt market (bigger than stock market) into Gold. Surely the Wall street - Treasury incestuous relationship will try to double down of short positions on gold futures to try and supress the price........but i don't think they will have enough ammo........besides the Comex prices are the paper price.......gold is selling at quite the premium these days...........over 1,000$ is common....that is the real PRICE.

Originally posted by redhatty
If China and other foreign countries stop buying our debt, then the entire country becomes insolvent, almost overnight. Have you been paying attention to what's happening with California? No money, no tax returns, cutting state employees work weeks, etc?

Imagine that on a scale that encompasses the entire US, including your elected officials.

This is not a good thing, if the US becomes insolvent, then we end up like Iceland, bankrupt. Iceland's government fell this week, soon they will no longer be a sovereign nation.

Is that what you want to see in the US?

If the world stops buying our debt then the Federal Reserve note is worthless.

Yet unlike Zimbabwe and Iceland, the U.S. has real wealth. The U.S. has all it's military toys and tons of resources along with one of the world's richest agriculture.

If the world stops buying U.S. debt, does that mean that the U.S. loses it millions of miles of farmland, its aircraft carriers and nuclear missiles, its vast coal reserves, its huge iron deposits, its relatively peaceful geographic location?

If the world stops buying U.S. debt, then the Federal Reserve and all the entities that thrive on on the current financial system would be insolvent overnight, as if they aren't already. The real wealth of the U.S. would still be there however.

The only problem is that such a transition will probably hurt but it's not like civil wars haven't happened in the past.

I knew what potential it has and surprised it hadn't happened a while ago already however,

If this were to happen it would make the dollar worth less in china causing all the American industries that do hire out work and have things made in china to once again have it made back in America.

Reason being it would end up costing much more to mass produce in china than it would to mass produce here back home if the economy went bottoms up. This is assuming there was no hyperinflation in the US when this happened and the US just became out right poor causing the demand for items to drop hugely while prices would drop just to keep money flowing and food on someones table.

That is assuming that they just didn't make it and sell it in china which is also a good chance. However if it's then cheaper by the dollar standard to produce in the US and then sell to china we would have the start in a decrease in unemployment in the US and an intake of global money coming into the US instead of going out.

This in return with everyone too afraid to spend in the US (just saving and investing into over sea's markets) and only sell over sea's, would then cause them to owe us money and to turn the tables 180 degree's on them.

It wouldn't be fun times in the US that's for sure, but doing this I think in the end just places both countries on a seesaw one goes up the other comes down back and forth until the guy on top says screw it and completely jumps off which would be very hard to do with the way economics and greed factor in todays economy.

Originally posted by warrenb
The Art of War

You do not need to throw one soldier or bomb to destroy, devastate or otherwise cripple your enemies nation. Simply make it rely on you for its economic strength, then once you have enough capital power, remove it in one fell swoop; destroying your enemies economy and throwing the nation into turmoil.

Brilliant.

Sun Tzu.

Do you really think they are attempting this or did this come about by our own ignorance and arrogance?

I like how it was described in this now famous video