Swedish city cancels Holocaust event

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


Wrongs today should not overshadow the wrongs of the past, canceling this event should not concern anyone nearly as much as the growing effort to completely rewrite the history of the holocaust. At the end of the day, there are many would would like to erase the history of the Holocaust completely and little by little that history is changing, perhaps one day the holocaust will be reduced to nothing more than a rumor, or myth and Israel as it exists today destroyed completely while the world cheers and rejoices, proclaiming that "they had it coming"

Ignorance rules!




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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If anything, the Holocaust memorials should be replaced by a Palestinian memorial. People need to realise that $#iT happens. The Holocaust is in the past, it happened a long long time ago. Since then, the non-Jews have barely been mentioned and the Jews have been componsated with billions of dollars, made a fortune on movies, have been given someone elses land and killed the people on that land. That's enough. They can't keep expecting sympathy for or from a generation of people who weren't even born when it happened.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Well when you think about it, it's not really holocaust.. it's holocaust TM, a trademark for justification of similar atrocities and genocide being committed as we speak.

Lest we forget, that the Palestinians weren't the ones behind the holocaust in the first place, but as masonwatcher pointed out earlier, it is the Palestinians unfortunately who are suffering as a result.

Also earlier in this thread, a poster made quite a good point about other atrocities that have gone without notice;


Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
One event about the most overrated genocide cancelled. Where are the events about the murder and torture of 100,000's of Chinese during WW2? How about the thousands of Kurds gassed by Saddam? How about the Iraqis US soldiers murdered? How about Russians and Chechens who were slaughtered while they were fighting.


How come the holocaust gets such a special recognition when compared to others?


[edit on 30/1/09 by Majorion]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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Maybe for those who actually KNEW someone who was killed at the camps it is truly remembrance of the Holocaust .

But to every other person alive , Jewish or not it is the inhumane principle of the Holocaust we remember and never want mankind to forget.

So if this "principle" is broken by the homeland of a people who claim to feel the pain of the past , I say they lose credibility .

When I see masses of Jewish protests against the sins of Israel worldwide , I will believe otherwise. Until then they simply don't care about suffering as a principle , only about themselves. Which goes against everything Holocaust remembrance is all about.

Cancel the parade.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


The palestinians shoot rockets into Israel for 2 years and nobody says anything...

The jews finally fire rockets at the palestinians in the exact location the rockets were coming from in retaliation for the 2 years of rockets having been fired on them and everyone says the jews are the devil.

The palestinians weren't the devil when they were firing rockets for 2 years?

It's called a double standard.

It's called hypocrisy.

For those that can't see this double standard, you are blind and probably believe every lie the world has ever told you.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Razimus
 



Simple question... How many Israeli citizens were killed in those 2 years by the rockets ?

The Holocaust is about remembering the real deaths of 6 million people. Not getting them upset or frightened them. Actually killed !!!!

If this concept is a bit complicated for you , get a grown up to explain it and get back to us.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


Originally posted by Razimus
For those that can't see this double standard, you are blind and probably believe every lie the world has ever told you.


Really? .. perhaps some people
should take a look in the mirror, then carefully research the issue.



The jews finally fire rockets at the palestinians in the exact location the rockets were coming from


I'd like to see some supporting data on this claim; if you don't mind. Quite the opposite, the homegrown near ineffective crude weaponry is a response to the assassination program. A reasonable response to bandit state murder. No, they don't fire rockets on the alleged "exact same location".. which media outlet you getting your so called information from?



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Majorion
 



The same Media outlet that supports the outright stealing of land and the murder of any opposition.

Because God gave it to me. Dont you know ANYTHING



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by spinkyboo

Originally posted by RogerT

Times are a changing, that's for sure.

This current wave of anti-Israel sentiment that seems to be sweeping around the world is fascinating indeed.

Exciting stuff


Times are a changing?
No they aren't.
Antisemitism has always been a popular way to go.
Nothing has changed.

Current wave?
Don't you mean - Constant wave?

Exciting stuff?
You're kidding right?!

It's the same "Blame the Jews Club" around the world.

It's pathetic.


I'm sorry you found the post offensive, that wasn't the intention.

I don't agree with your response, in my experience there's been a lot of support and sympathy in the recent past for the Jewish 'cause' or whatever we are supposed to call it.

Yes I agree there is also a history of 'anti' sentiment. However, when an individual or a group claims divine elevated status over others, it automatically generates a contrary position - that's human nature.

Try going up to a stranger in the pub and stating 'I am better than you' and see what happens.

I do think times are a changing. Religions will fall and concepts of one-ness will replace them, which will eventually lead to the global realisation of the divinity and chosen-ness of every human - I can't wait.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by Razimus
reply to post by masonwatcher
 


The palestinians shoot rockets into Israel for 2 years and nobody says anything


Israel uses bulldozers, tanks, air raids, chemical weapons, machine guns, missiles...etc. For over 60 years


For those that can't see this double standard, you are blind and probably believe every lie the world has ever told you.


I'll show you something about double standards and lies and being blind...

This is Children... Under 18

Year....... Israeli Deaths....... Palestinian Deaths
2000 ................ 0 ..................... 91
2001 ................ 36 ................... 103
2002 ................. 45 ................... 201
2003 .................. 21..................... 141
2004 .................. 8 ..................... 188
2005 .................. 6 .................... 56
2006 .................. 2 ..................... 139
2007................... 1 .................... 59
2008 ................ 4 .................... 72



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 



You just THRIVE on the hate of others, don't you?

If not stirring it, just washing yourself in it.

My god...



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by bloodcircle
 


Originally posted by bloodcircle
reply to post by masonwatcher
 

You just THRIVE on the hate of others, don't you?


It seems there is yet another person who is unaccustomed to criticism of Israel and the zionists.


Well get used to it, the world are starting to open their eyes and wake up, now that most people get their news from the internet; and subsequently quit relying on media outlets' blabber and propaganda.

I've never found masonwatcher to be a hateful person of any kind, he simply presents the other view of this situation. The one that usually goes unnoticed.

Try staying on-topic; instead of the obvious tactic of diversion and attempting to personally discredit someone.

[edit on 31/1/09 by Majorion]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 06:16 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by masonwatcher
The 6 million dead memorialised are all Jews. The other nationalities you included in your question is merely for the effect of incorporating others and undermining the Swedish justifications. In effect you are saying that the Holocaust memorial services held in Israel and centred around Jewish communities abroad is about Russians and Romanies, etc. So your question is disingenuous.


Rubbish. The 6 million dead most certainly were not all jews.

You project that to be the case because it suits your argument and shows off your underlying bias against jewish people.

You are blaming all jewish people for the actions of the Israeli government.

I take it then - using your own logic - that you blame all Palestinian people for the actions of Hammas, and all muslims for the actions of Al-Quaeda?

Its exactly that kind of stupid logic that continually feeds and propogates the argument and violence in the middle east. Blind hatred, for the sake of it, from both sides.

And until it stops the cycle will just continue, and the narrow minded bigots from both sides will carry on ordering their opposite numbers, and any civilians that get in the way, killed.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 31 Jan 2009 by neformore]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 06:51 AM
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Topic Only, Please

Too many posts in this thread include insults directed at other members.

For those who may be unaware, Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com.

Let's please stay on topic and refrain from any further insults or personal commentary.

Thanks.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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Ok Back to the topic.....


"To compare the Holocaust with Gaza is like comparing apples with pears," said Inga-Lill Sundström, one the organizers of the ceremony


This is from the Jerusalem Post relating to the topic
www.jpost.com...

Apples and Pears are fairly similar. They both grow on trees, they have a core, have a similar colour and structure. However, there is some difference in the texture, shape and taste.

So i think that is what Inga-Lill is saying is...

The Holocaust and Gaza are fairly similar. They both displayed genocide, the core of the issue is the same (iNazi's wanted Jews dead. Jews want Palestinians dead). The people have a similar skin colour and the same physical structure. However, there is some difference is methods used (gas chamber/white phosphorus), the type of equipment (guns/tanks) and the reason for it (anti-communism/pro-occupation).



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 





Rubbish. The 6 million dead most certainly were not all jews. You project that to be the case because it suits your argument and shows off your underlying bias against jewish people. You are blaming all jewish people for the actions of the Israeli government.


If you say that 6 million Jews did not die in the Holocaust, that makes you a historical revisionist and a Holocaust denier. Please rethink your information.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by masonwatcher
If you say that 6 million Jews did not die in the Holocaust, that makes you a historical revisionist and a Holocaust denier. Please rethink your information.


What I said was - in plain writing which is still there for everyone to see - this




The 6 million dead most certainly were not all jews


I didn't say that jews did not die. Nor do I dispute that the Holocaust happened. Your insidious attempt at trying to twist the subject round on me will not work, because my writings on the Holocaust, how it occurred, why it occurred and the machinations of the Nazi machine that carried it out stand for all to see on ATS.

You've obviously not read many of my posts on ATS, have you? Had you done so you would realise that I despise the actions of the current Israeli administration in Gaza. I truly believe that what they have done in recent months is despicable. I have said so on many occasions on this forum,

That having been said, I believe that everyone, no matter what race, religion or creed they claim to be is - ultimately - human. I also believe that minorities carry out violence and the masses suffer for it. That is the case in Israel, and Palestine.

Anyone who blames every person of a religion for crimes carried out in its name is, bluntly, a fool who invites people on the opposite side of their particular belief system to see things exactly the same way. In short, by advocating that line of thinking you invite your own annihilation.

Your action in what you've just tried to do in that post paints your agenda here very very clearly. And by that I mean that you will stoop to any level whatsoever to paint your propaganda.

Thats called trolling.

ATS is a home for intelligent debate. Please come back to me for a proper discussion of the issues when you've figured out the difference between the two.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


You said 6 million people died of whom Jews were a portion and the rest being Russian, pows, Romanies, homosexuals, the disabled, dissidents, etc.

That is not orthodoxy. 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. I merely asked you to check your facts.

I meant no offence and apologies if you took offence.

[edit on 113131p://am3105 by masonwatcher]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Normally your posts are very astute and level headed. Not sure what is happening here but I think you have misread, misunderstood and/or misrepresented the comments of MasonWatcher.


Regarding the holocaust comments ...

You are clearly well read and well educated on many matters of current affairs and history, hence your comment that 6 million died of which a portion were Jews.

However, that is not the way the holocaust is 'broadcast' or 'understood' by Joe Public, who are more likely to think of the holocaust as the extermination of 6 million jews in the nazi camps.

I'm no expert on the history, but I've seen posters here on ATS labelled as holocaust deniers if they affirm that less than 6 million jews died.

So whether the facts support it or not, holocaust = dead jews to most people.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by RogerT
 


Thanks for you kind words RogerT.

I know there are more accurate and accepted figures of the numbers killed in the Holocaust. I take the view that if only one Jew was killed because of their religion by the Nazis, it is one too many.

There are Holocaust deniers who also come out with varying numbers. Engaging a discourse on this matter is unappetising for me. It is like haggling over dead bodies so I accept any figure officially sanctioned and it is around 6 million Jewish victims. Incidentally deviating from orthodoxy in some parts of Europe will have you thrown into jail even if you committed the crime outside their jurisdiction.

I think the most important issue is reclaiming the Holocaust for humanity to remember and really take on board the idea of 'never again'. There should never be another Rwanda, Cambodia, and another Gaza siege. There should never be another state sanctioned collective punishment and the slaughter of the innocents. The people who died in the Holocaust were not Israelis but people from other nations who happened to be Jewish. Israel cheapens the Holocaust.





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