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Did Mormonism Come From Hallucinogens?

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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Did hallucinogens facilitate Joseph Smith's visions & those of early Mormon converts? In his 1975 book, Hearts Made Glad, Lamar Petersen carefully documented the use of intoxicants by Joseph Smith and early converts to the LDS Church. While mostly interested in the consumption of various fermented and distilled alcohols, Petersen also noted strange behaviors associated with the sacramental use of what seemed to outside observers to be medicated wine.

It appears that soon after the Church was organized in New York and later in Ohio, members partook of wine in sacrament meetings which occasioned visionary states and strange behaviors not typically associated with alcohol consumption or intoxication. It is my thesis that beginning at a young age, Joseph Smith experimented with psychedelic plants and that many of Joseph Smith revelations and much of his behavior can be attributed to the use of psychedelics.

Following Joseph Smiths death, the pragmatic Brigham Young had no interest in psychedelic material, or was unaware of its use, and hence it did not become a part of Utah Mormonism. However, James Strang and Fredrick M. Smith (Joseph Smith's grandson and president of the RLDS Church) perpetuated the use of psychedelics in their branches of Joseph Smith's original movement. The use of psychedelics by the Strangites and the RLDS Church could not be sustained.




According to the official web site of the LDS Church, in the spring of 1820, Joseph Smith offered a simple prayer that set into motion a series of events leading to the restoration of the true Church and the truth about life’s greatest questions.1 But for many early LDS coverts, learning about truth was a second rank endeavor. Instead, seeking for a personal visionary experience was primary.

According to LDS scholar, Richard Bushman, early Mormon converts were “seekers” whose … greatest hunger was for spiritual gifts like dreams, visions, tongues, miracles, and spiritual raptures.

These early Church members sought direct experience with God and believed that Joseph Smith had the power to grant their desires. Confidence in their Prophet was not misplaced. Between 1829 and 1836, under the supervision of Joseph Smith, many early Mormon converts enjoyed heavenly visions and spiritual raptures.

While the nature of these visions are a matter of debate, there is no doubt as to the amazing number of visions experienced by Joseph Smith and early converts during these seven years. However, after Joseph’s death in 1844, the great visionary period of Church history came to an end.3 The only vision recorded in Church of Jesus Christ of LDS scripture (D&C 138 )is that of Joseph F. Smith dated October 3, 1918.

Since 1918, there has be no visionary expereince recorded by any of the subsequent presidents of the LDS Church. Interestingly, the vast majority of Mormons living today believe that Joseph Smith-like visionary and revelatory experience continues amongst the living "General Authorities" of the Church, but in secret. However, an Apostle of the LDS Church admitted in 1985 that he had never had such an experience and he was unaware of anyone living who had. (Inperson interview of and LDS Church Apostle by the author)

So stark was the dearth of visionary experience that in 1864, twenty years after Joseph Smith's death, members would ask Mormon Apostle George A. Smith, ... why it is that we do not see more angels, have more visions, that we do not see greater and more manifestations of power?


Source Link




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Upon living with family members from differing religions including some that are very set in their mormon beliefs I have set out on a road to discover the meaning of religion and where it came from. Ultimately the more I read the more I find myself leaning towards its roots being based upon some kind of drug or magicians trick. I have religious background myself that I am not so proud of and thought this would be of interest for those asking about religion and wondering if it is the worlds biggest conspiracy.

Also upon reading another interesting book titled "Magic Mushrooms In Religion And Alchemy" I have come to conclude that religion can do 2 things. It can unite us and it can separate us. I think we all know what it has been doing as of, oh the last few hundred years. From what I have seen everybody wants to be part of something and as we have different categories of people there are always the religious fanatics living religion to fulfill some sense of meaning and purpose they did not get out of real life. They seem to be running from reality and people are willing to live a fantasy to feel better about them self. That is understandable but I personally would rather live the truth even if it hurts.


So long has the world fought over religious beliefs and so long has it been the purpose for war. I hope some day in the future we can mature as a world and realize what is important. Which is, religion is a "LIE". There are over 40,000 religions on the planet and anyone that really thinks there's is the one true religion needs to look at the other 39,999 to be sure from every perspective that none of the others is correct. I chose to focus on mormonism as I live in UT and that is the major religion here. I am not saying that drugs created religion but I am moving closer to that conclusion.

There is a rational and logical explanation for everything if we are open to learn something new. I am prepared to be flamed by your opinions on how crazy I am. Leave your input and please keep my flaming to a minimum.




[edit on 29-1-2009 by N3krostatic]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Religion is a lie?

too broad, so untrue.

If you define "religion" than it can be supported or debated.

If you take the approach that it is either "all true" or "all false" then you shouldn't even bother asking.

If the topic is of interest than there is more than you can handle out there to sift through.

I would arm yourself with this...."do on to others as you would have done onto you" take that with you and you will be able to breeze through much of the man made obfuscations of religion.

Find the religion that adheres to that the most and you have a good one to be a part of....because a good religion promotes community and is supportive and is an emotional safe place.

I personally am not hip to a "religion" I like the Lutherans and am comfortable in the Catholic church but I hitch my wagon to the teachings of Jesus and no religion seems to be interested in doing that without adding their twist to it. Love not hate....that simple.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Sounds an entirely sensible theory, it was the right time and place for it -all sorts of people were starting to investigate the mind altering effects of drugs (again).

Did you ever see the evidence that jesus was a pot smoker? conclusive. The healing oil he and his followers used even contained it.

The veda are full of drugs referances, shiva is worshiped by smoking weed even to this day.

It's almost funny that all these straight laced religious types are probably following the stoned delusions of drug users, pft they should cut out the middle man.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Religion is a lie?

too broad, so untrue.

If you define "religion" than it can be supported or debated.

If you take the approach that it is either "all true" or "all false" then you shouldn't even bother asking.

If the topic is of interest than there is more than you can handle out there to sift through.

I would arm yourself with this...."do on to others as you would have done onto you" take that with you and you will be able to breeze through much of the man made obfuscations of religion.

Find the religion that adheres to that the most and you have a good one to be a part of....because a good religion promotes community and is supportive and is an emotional safe place.

I personally am not hip to a "religion" I like the Lutherans and am comfortable in the Catholic church but I hitch my wagon to the teachings of Jesus and no religion seems to be interested in doing that without adding their twist to it. Love not hate....that simple.



The definition of religion according to what I found is:



A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


Naturally to sift through all religion is impossible, for the main reason is that religion is based upon mans definition of God or mans opinion of creation which is usually backed up by some book whether it is the quran or the bible which in turn lays ultimately tweaked by those with an agenda. Many religions spur from multiple people agreeing on one of those subjects. Religion is also created from an opinion of what the these texts mean and their implications on mankind. In essence man thinks he knows and assumes for the best of his fellow mankind because of his personal take on the subject therefore creating opinions beating against each other and from there creating disunity further leading to something making them enemies instead of allies. Religion is man made as we attempt to explain what we don't know such as the subject of God.

I think that it is debatable and should be left to nothing more than that. A debate. Religion should not be pushed on others in anyway whatsoever as it is a personal belief. Why religion is detrimental is because of what it has created in our world and how it has created war and ignorance. In order to end the war created by religion we need to end religion. I do not think groups should be formed to the point in which places of worship are built. Temples almost seem like bragging rights at least to the mormons and I do agree that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us but we don't need religion for that. We need knowledge and to keep an open mind always. As you said I agree on love, not hate which is what so many religions have created.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by N3krostatic]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by N3krostatic
 



Also upon reading another interesting book titled "Magic Mushrooms In Religion And Alchemy"


I also read a few books about the mushroom cults of those days, and even the famous Jesus belongs to one, the Essenes, I think. I do performed a through research on religions of the world and came to basically the same conclusions, plus basically all religions are based on the ancient Egyptians worship of the Sun. Christians even say "Amen" at the end of every prayer, never knowing that this gives credence to Amun Re, the Egyptian Sun God.
www.ancient-egypt-online.com...
www.crystalinks.com...
www.touregypt.net...

Few Christian leaders even are aware of this, still they say it after each prayer. Another thing;
Jesus is not God, and did not die on the cross, according to the early Christians.
First of all, it is important to know that according to the New Testament itself, all of Jesus' Disciples fled for their lives on the night of crucifixion. None of them witnessed Jesus' crucifixion except for one, that is Saint Peter! He was the lone and only witness of the actual crucifixion event. Let us look at what the Bible's New Testament says:

Matthew 26:34-35, 55-57, 69-75
34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
.......
55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Now as we can clearly see, Peter probably did witness the so-called crucifixion event. He was present there, according to Bible, if you believe it is all true. The only thing that saved Peter from death is his denial that he knew Jesus. Otherwise, he would've got crucified that night. Proof enough?

And, the man's name was not ever "Jesus Christ." Start with Yeshua bin Joseph. That's his name, not 'Jesus.' It's what his father and mother and his brothers and sisters called him and it's how his followers knew him.

It's funny what one learns when one decides to go on a hunt, isn't it? Wish more Christians would do lust that.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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One must indeed be careful of ones words regarding this particular subject material, but, what is truly noteworthy is that the content couldn't be any further from the TRUTH!!!
Being an Active Elder within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, one must be Worthy of Character, and Behavior at all times. The true embodiment of Kindness and Service unto one and all in our daily Faith-Walk.
Be very reassured that our Prophet Joseph Smith along with the Words of Wisdom, Book of Mormon, and the Holy Bible never had any interests in such unworthy behavior.
Through deep and sincere prayer with Our Heavenly Father, and His Son Our Lord, and Blessed Savior, Jesus Christ, and the Gift of Wisdom and Love of the Holy Ghost anything is possible!!!
In October of 2007, I had a beautiful experience in the Celestial Room of the Salt Lake Temple.
The words "Service my son, service!!!" was spoken unto me by Our Heavenly Father.
Ones Fear is only that of ones lack of Faith!!!
C.T.R., Elder1952



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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I don't know if he was into using hallucinogens or not, but from the reading I have done Joseph Smith was a first class scam artist. I am a genealogy buff, and my great grandparents used to live next door to the house he had lived in when he was in Oakland, PA. This is where he brought up the "tablets" and performed the first baptisms into the Morman religion in the Susquehanna River.

In my research, I have found some interesting information on Joseph Smith and wanted to post the link for you to read. There is quite a bit of information that shows his character before he moved on from PA to NY, OH and towards Utah.




In the summer of 1798, Isaac Hale was one of the viewers of the first roads laid out in Willingborough. He was a great hunter, and made his living principally by procuring game. His sons, also, were hunters. His wife was for fifty years a consistent member of the Methodist church. A lady now living at Lanesboro, who knew her well, says: "I never visited her but I thought I had learned something useful." Her death ocurred in 1842, in her seventy-fifth year. Their daughter, Emma, was intelligent, and, that she should marry Joseph Smith, Jr., the Mormon leader, can only be accounted for by supposing "he bewitched her," as he afterwards bewitched the masses.


This is partway down the page, and goes on for quite a few pages to show what his status was back in 1798 with the locals. Smith History Vault

I am not a religious person, myself. I was baptised Catholic, but it never went any further than that. I find all religions to be odd in their own way. I prefer not to argue over one or the other, each has some good points and some bad points. I feel that it's just a way for the "PTB" control the population by declaring certain things taboo.

You don't have to be religious to be a good person, just respecting others goes a long way.

A_L



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by another_lurker
 


I will definitely scour through this. The smart ones are the ones that know to hide the truth to create wooled followers.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by N3krostatic]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by N3krostatic
 


Interesting Post!

I read a scientific article last year that suggested all religions may have started with hallucinations. It came from a study of mountain climbers who experience lots of weird auditory and visual stuff when their brains become deprived of oxygen at high altitudes.

These hallucinations included fires/flames (burning bush), tunnels with a light at the end (NDE's) voices (God?), feelings of elation/euphoria, feelings of a 'presence', ghost people and many, many other weird things.

As it turns out, Mohamed and Moses both went to the mountain tops to seek their 'divine' encounters. There's a few more instances but I can't remember them all.

Though I can't find the exact article, here's some links that explain the phenomena.

Hallucinatory Experiences in Extreme-Altitude Climbers.
The High Altitude Brain
Was Moses Hallucinating on Mt. Sinai
Why Revelations Have Occured On Mountains [PDF File]

Food for thought!

IRM



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


I will read this all and thank you very much! This will lend some credence to my theory even more. "leaning further toward religion coming from the rabbit hole"



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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Ever heard of Ephedra?

It was a Mormon discovery, at least in plant form, they found it in Utah I believe.

They call it Brigham Tea.

There are secrets inside the Mormon temple that only a few have witnessed, where there are secrets anything is possible.

Blood atonement anyone?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Being born a Mormon and having been raised by them, I'm more inclined to believe Smith was a common Confidence Man (he was charged with being a Glass Reader which was that periods term for Confidence Man).

His Partner, the only other person to see the Tablets was a known criminal and Smith had a record.

Smith also frequented the archeological digs in the mounds and interacted with people who were aware of the White Savior in Central American Indian Lore. All of which played a part in the "Book of Mormon".

The "Utah" Mormons are wonderful people. Honest, hard working and have a great take on Family and its importance that others could take a lesson from. Sadly they are often lied about in a mean spirited manner in Pentecostal authored literature which is common in book stores.

I see Young as his later Partner in Crime, who carried on from the charismatic Smith and the followers were innocent believers looking to better their lives.

Young I see as more of a Cad than Smith with worse motives. His influence on the Church was more negative than positive.

You must be aware modern Mormons don't even use caffeine or any stimulants, intoxicants or drugs?

I see zero reason to connect hallucinogens to Smith other than a personal desire that it be true. I've noticed many here want to connect drug use to spirituality, but being an ex-addict myself, I don't buy it. When I was young, dumb, partying and immature I would have jumped on the bandwagon, but I know now that a hallucination is not a spiritual thing. It is a chemical event in the brain.

I had no spiritual experiences in the Mormon Church but have had many to support my faith since accepting Christianity. These were not hallucinations however and I don't cheapen them by sharing them here.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by N3krostatic
 


I have researched Mormon history and from what I've read they have a strict "word of wisdom" which states basically no illegal or harmful drugs, I seriously doubt any leaders of that church took drugs, the fact that modern day leaders haven't seen angels and whatnot doesn't mean it never happened a hundred plus years ago, maybe it means they are lacking in faith, maybe it means they don't need to see angles.

I personally never ask God for a sign, I never ask to see angles, I don't need to or want to see them until it's time after I die. Sometimes people get hung up on the little stuff that doesn't matter, seeing visions doesn't matter, you can believe in Jesus with no vision except a vision in the heart, a vision of faith, seeing is not believing.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by N3krostatic
 


HAlf the bible and most of the offspringing cults were written by someone doing somethin..



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Well "Golden Scrolls" sounds awefully like Golden Caps and those make you go koo koo clock if you eat enough. Plus being that drugs are responsible for 99% of the fraudulent society of so called "clean people" then yeah, i would defend that psychedelics are the cause of dellusional religions, like all of them save the asian scientific spiritual obserrvers/practicers.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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I think the benefit of such things would be that it loosens your grip on what is accepted reality. Makes you ask - what is real? Once your grip on reality is loosened, then you begin to ask questions about the nature of reality, the nature of self and so on. To ask such questions is to seek, and if you seek then you will find.

Personally, I think such things are illegal because of this, as part of the war on God. Not to say that you actually need such things for a religious experience, or that even such things can bring about a religious experience. I experimented probably 100's of times when I was younger and never had anything remotely close to a religious experience. But rather, I think anything which gets one to question their reality would have such effects if the person pursues it.

Matthew 7

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

To knock and open a door is to open your mind. And such things can surely do this.

Indians eat peyote and other things. There is a long history and only until recent history has their been a "war" against these things. Can't have people running around with free minds.

HOWEVER.

The most potent hallucinogens are actually produced by your brain. These drugs are always present in your brain and without them even the reality you see wouldn't exist. High doses of this is what you experience in your sleep and causes dreams.

Human sacrifices are done in order to get the gland that produces these (pineal gland). Ever seen the movie - fear and loathing in las vegas?

Ancient tribes have ways of using plants to produce these effects. To which you actually enter other dimensions even.

So basically, even without external drugs a person can still have these same things. And even your current "reality" couldn't exist without them.

Numbers 12:6

And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

And as I said, the dream state for everyone has way more hallucinogens than any drug, by a lot. Like it or not, everyone's reality is based on hallucinogens.

The pineal gland looks like a pine cone. And you can find such symbolisms everywhere in the church. I'm pretty sure they actually know this.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Here are a few videos which are related to this topic.

'___' the beyond within. Kingdom of heaven is within? God is within? etc. Curious choice of words for the title of this one.


Google Video Link


The Shamans of the Amazon
*Exploring Ayahuasca

Google Video Link


Shamanic Physics - this one is a bit about quantum physics and the similiarites of it and what the shamans have none for thousands of years, also goes into kabbalah.


Google Video Link



Interesting topic. I don't know the answers, but it is plausible.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Razimus
reply to post by N3krostatic
 


I have researched Mormon history and from what I've read they have a strict "word of wisdom" which states basically no illegal or harmful drugs, I seriously doubt any leaders of that church took drugs, the fact that modern day leaders haven't seen angels and whatnot doesn't mean it never happened a hundred plus years ago, maybe it means they are lacking in faith, maybe it means they don't need to see angles.

I personally never ask God for a sign, I never ask to see angles, I don't need to or want to see them until it's time after I die. Sometimes people get hung up on the little stuff that doesn't matter, seeing visions doesn't matter, you can believe in Jesus with no vision except a vision in the heart, a vision of faith, seeing is not believing.


Maybe part of the reason the word of wisdom was originally established was because Joseph Smith didn't want his followers stumbling onto his little secret. And for faith. The knowledge of things unseen is how they describe it. IMHO you don't know something exists if you haven't seen it. You can take someones word for it if they have seen it but ultimately it is not knowledge unless it is personally experienced. It is a belief. The definition of faith I hear is contradicting.

And I live in central UT and my whole community is mormon. I know mormons in this area quite well and moral, yes. Honest, yes but not with themselves. They float rumors about those not part of the church and treat them less as if they have some grand purpose in life that makes them better than others who refuse to follow their fantasy.

And I don't ask or look for signs either. Anyone can find the truth by them self without religion and god if they are willing. We give mystical explanations to things we do not understand too much.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by N3krostatic]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by another_lurker




In the summer of 1798, Isaac Hale was one of the viewers of the first roads laid out in Willingborough. He was a great hunter, and made his living principally by procuring game. His sons, also, were hunters. His wife was for fifty years a consistent member of the Methodist church. A lady now living at Lanesboro, who knew her well, says: "I never visited her but I thought I had learned something useful." Her death ocurred in 1842, in her seventy-fifth year. Their daughter, Emma, was intelligent, and, that she should marry Joseph Smith, Jr., the Mormon leader, can only be accounted for by supposing "he bewitched her," as he afterwards bewitched the masses.


You are using false logic in your interpretation of this. English and in particular American English is a living changing language. "He bewitched her" is the same as saying Smith was charismatic as are most cult founders and leaders. To connect that to drugs is a mighty long stretch.



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