i wonder what you'll do when the next generation of seeds won't germinate...

do youse have enough 'Heirloom' seeds (pre-GM seeds)
to sustain ourselves (for a guessed at minimum of 3 crops) until nature starts to correct the man made damage to the staple grains....
and start new strains of natural grains which are not resistant
to bugs, insects, drought & such.


Who is going to organize security to watchover the square-foot gardens?

night-time garden raiders will take the place of convience store thefts/robbery


bottom line... i'm not expecting a 21st century Depression...
I'm anticipating the total collapse of the financial system, and the resulting
collapse of social order into anarchy, chaos, entropy of civilization.


and that's the 'good news'

A few people have mentioned they don't see neighbors helping. Yesterday my car got stuck in ice and within ten minutes four of my neighbors where out with shovels and boards. I suppose it depends on the area you live in. I live in a pretty NON populated area. One neighbor even asked if I wanted a few jugs of water if anything was to happen. In return I gave him a box of ammo, mainly out of respect and to say without saying, if he needed help hunting or anything in general, he could knock on my door and rely on me for some help.

If you live in a area where people aren't as friendly. I suggest try being more friendly towards them, some people just don't like to start a conversation first.

There's a depression,,, where?

Oh right so you thought thats why the governments saying they're gonna have to spend billions on this and that, really people theres no depression going on its its just a very good time for some people to line their pockets and top up their retirement fund and splash out on that new learjet jet they have had their eye on for a while.

lol depression!

I live in a townhouse community, it's been about 10 years now, I know almost all the neighbors on my street by names and the ones whose names I don't know, I make it a point to say hello. Our community is divided in with about 8-10 townhouses per "block". I made it a point of getting to know everyone who lives on my "block" on a "personal level". I also know people on every other block in the community too, namely because our kids all play together.

Last summer I shared with them produce from my container garden, thanksgiving and christmas we all exchange baked goods and some of us even exchange gifts. Even though it's an urban area (which has it's set of unique challenges) I definitely feel there is a spirit of community within. Following Hurricane Wilma and the many storms we've seen over the years, the men in my community have always gotten together and helped each other board up houses and clean up afterwards. While I want a bigger house and more yard space, and to live in a rural area, I fear moving because I will lose the value of the community I'm already in. I'm comfortable with my neighbors and thankfully each of them have very talents, and access to a variety of things that can be useful..I've tried to hint and guide my neighbors into my kind of mindset regarding disaster preparedness and as Floridians who deal with hurricanes every year, they have all complied to an extent but as to the "bigger" picture, well that's slowly be painted for them.

@ Stu dio

As for seeds, I've have a large collection of heirloom seeds, bought and collected from others. I also have a very large collection of regular seeds for now. My plan is to constantly be in varying growing stages of the basics that we will eat. When I grow heirloom variety, I always collect the seeds and save, hopefully I can get to a point of where it's becomes a natural cycle. And if all seeds fails or soil or outdoors makes it impossible, sprouting will have to be my alternate.

Who is going to watch my garden? Those same neighbors with whom I've always shared with that's who.. My neighbors don't have time or skills to do many of things I suggest, but I've been giving them edible plants in containers to "decorate" claiming I have too much, while ensuring that they will something to turn to when sitx happens. I've been encouraging them to grow their own food and just last week one of my neighbors came to me with questions regarding growing peppers in containers. I also plan on asking another neighbor to let me plant his empty garden, which I've been eyeing since last summer.... If I am seen as the one with the expertise when it comes to gardening, then I think I will be of value.

While I expect a financial collapse and some degree of anarchy, I feel comfortable with my community being able to work together and hold our own if we have to. My neighbors may not know yet, but I've already made a list of suggestions and plans on how we can protect our community from outsiders and also how we can get out if our community is used against us to keep us confined.

I cannot stress how important it is to know and live well with thy neighbor. Know their strengths and their weaknesses, know what vices they have and how you can benefit from that knowledge. It's the only way to survive any sort of sitx including the deep recession/depression we are already in.

I've mentioned this elsewhere too, but it's very easy to start a stockpile of anything you think you need, just one or two extra item, every time you shop, put it away and just keep adding. It's easy on the budget and in no time you can have a nice little stockpile of necessities. Worried about food, think Ramen noodles, worried about hygiene, buy bar soap in bulk, in hard times, you can use that same variety of bar soap to bathe with, wash clothes with, wash dishes with, even wash your hair with...it's not the best thing for all those purposes, but its a cheap and perfectly fine way to make due.. you guys get the idea...

In the communities of the future every single person will be a valuable asset. Some will have expertise in gardening and others in the sciences and others will be poets, musicians and artists.

Each person will have a unique talent to add to the whole and in the communities of the future people will respect one another for what they can bring to the community. If you have no real talents or abilities, not to worry there will be plenty of jobs available on a daily basis.

No job will be more needed than the next. I for one do not like the idea of killing and gutting an animal, but I have no problem cooking it up and cleaning afterwards, some thing the butcher may not like to do.

The computer geek is going to be as valuable an asset as the hunter gatherers. The medics and nurses will be the only medical help you may be able to get. The musicians, artists, writers, story tellers and poets may be the only entertainment you have for quite some time.

There will be the vulnerable such as the handicap, blind and elderly, as well as the young, and the community will pool their resources to teach the children how to survive and thrive in the new world and take care of the elderly, disabled and blind.

Teachers will be so valuable, but the lessons will be so much deeper and meaningful in the future, and it will take the entire community to raise the children of the future. There will be orphans and displaced, and a few will stop by and you will want them to stay, and others you can feed a bit and send on their way.

Communities will begin to take on a life of their own and within your group, babies will be born, and groups will expand, when a group gets so big, then it is time to break off and begin new groups that still hold the community spirit with the original, and can come back for celebrations and barter or trade. Money will not be a problem as the things that money can buy will not be available. If your community has an abundance of game or agriculture, that is what you become known for, the same with other groups.

People of like minds will join together and although there will be rogue groups that would want to take, you will as a community be prepared.

Soon those groups will begin to drastically eradicate themselves. In the future work will be known as worship, it will be the strength of the community, to live you will have to work. And in return work will enable you to live.

I realize that this is jumping the gun, many stages will have occurred before this becomes a reality, much blood will be shed, many sacrifices will have to be made.

I have a rifle and the best camping equipment you can get. That is about all I need. When the crap really starts to roll down hill I won't be around long enough to watch the sheep riot, and have the boots kicking down my door.

Originally posted by Niall197
Shucks. I fear Grandma's been overdosing on her Prozac again.

Was that line really called for Niall? Those of us who care about whats going on and trying to make a change here in peoples mind sets will know that this is a postive thread. A call to action, and a call to our minds and bodies to prepare for the comming years.

Next time around you should show a little more respect to those working their best to give you something that money can not buy.

I hope that in time you will listen more closely to what she has to say. And filter out that brain to finger deal you have going on.

Thank you Antar for the great thread! Many of us are listening, and listening closely to what you have to say here!
Most the time I let stuff like that slide.. But when I see snide remarks made, I have to jump in and speak my mind..

Your grandmother, what a strong woman! I have much respect for her. And as always you aswell..
S&F from me here.. I just hope more will open their hearts and minds to what you have to offer.. It will serve to help many people on this earth!

Again pearls of wisdom from the greatest teachers of the last Great Depression. I cannot stress the need to incorporate the elderly, the people who have lived through the first one into your plans for this next one.

True words spoken.. We can learn so much from the past. As how many times must it repeat before we understand, years and years later, we fall into the same booby traps as our elders did..
We must learn from them! We must understand so much about how they went about life.. As it will serve us greatly..
These older folks got by with so much less.. And today we sit all cozy and nice with all our "stuff". When at some point when all that "stuff" is gone or doesnt work anymore.. What will you do? Most wont have a clue as what to do.. Unless they take the time to listen, and listen closely!

[edit on 31-1-2009 by zysin5]

Originally posted by worldwatcher


While I expect a financial collapse and some degree of anarchy, I feel comfortable with my community being able to work together and hold our own if we have to. My neighbors may not know yet, but I've already made a list of suggestions and plans on how we can protect our community from outsiders and also how we can get out if our community is used against us to keep us confined.

I cannot stress how important it is to know and live well with thy neighbor. Know their strengths and their weaknesses, know what vices they have and how you can benefit from that knowledge. It's the only way to survive any sort of sitx including the deep recession/depression we are already in.


I've mentioned this elsewhere too, but it's very easy to start a stockpile of anything you think you need, just one or two extra item, every time you shop, put it away and just keep adding. It's easy on the budget and in no time you can have a nice little stockpile of necessities. Worried about food, think Ramen noodles, worried about hygiene, buy bar soap in bulk, in hard times, you can use that same variety of bar soap to bathe with, wash clothes with, wash dishes with, even wash your hair with...it's not the best thing for all those purposes, but its a cheap and perfectly fine way to make due.. you guys get the idea...

Thanks World Watcher, you truly live up to your name in this post. At the risk of getting a warning for excessive quoting, I will address the above paragraphs.

When you take time to actually make contingency plans for the total economic collapse, rather than indulging in fantasy about how one is going to run around haphazardly gun in hand shooting their way to freedom from oppression, you are the absolute hope for the future.

For every World Watcher that is silently and subtly steering the people around them, I applaud your higher consciousness and for thought. We have the opportunity that was not available to the people of the last depressions, we have communication and an intelligence network of the people. This is the blind card that they know has the potential to change the course of our governments and military actions in crisis.

The more we prepare, the less panic and fear will be present and in its place a sense of getting to work, rather than shooting at shadows when the time comes. In the beginning the main systems for the small group will be food, water, medical and security and a willingness to not only survive but thrive during the collapse. I do not want to rely on the gov. for assistance as it is gong to be over burdened and unsafe to do so.

In crisis, people will define those they trust to lead, and WW, you have the calm and assuring nature to do just that. So by assigning the task lists ahead of time, you will be just that much more of a leader.

We have already felt the terror and fear of what was to come by our research and availability to learn all of the angles before the collapse. Most were busy paying bills, going to work and living the dream. We were studying and working towards having the basics set in place. For us, we will not go through the shock and awe, been there done that, lol.

My Grandparents could wake up tomorrow with their entire life savings gone, and they will not panic, because they have lived through this before and know we have a network of people willing to grow, butcher and protect all of our needs.

One thing I wanted to share is that I keep extra shoes clothes and items the boys have outgrown in a big box in the garage, if in the future I need to pass a coat or pair of shoes down to a little one I can. In turn I could get the parent of the needy to work for a day, I can feed them and give their little one what they need. I can also send them on their way.

We cannot take on every passer by, and we do not have to show and tell what we have, but there will be decent people in need, not all passers by are going to be murdering lowlives.

Also gathering rags from discarded sweatshirts and such will come in handy for wiping everything from fannies to counter tops. Simple sponges for periods. In the old days women used rags as kotex. I keep a big supply for the collapse for personal use. I buy on sale and cheap brands and store. Vitamins on sale are a very smart move as well. Canned baby formula, can get you some hard workers in trade. I did buy tobacco to grow this year for people who need that... I have all the supplies to make my own lye soap, and never throw away the dregs of used soap. I have jars and jars of it to make good soap in the future. It is CHEAP, to get the supplies to make your soap. I don't want to use it now, I like my store bought, but can in stx. Candle wicks, learn to make your own, And buy reusable wax, that can be remade over and over. Cotton T Shirts twisted and spun dipped in wax...

I love that you are giving your neighbors edible plants, that is awesome. I also try to grow every type of medicine, from toothache plant to feminine aids, pain relievers, and even anti inflammatories.

Gotta go for now, thanks for your positive influence. I had a GF come over yesterday and finally had the 'talk' with her, it was great and now I know I have an alliance with another family in our part of the country.