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Could we do it?

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
What would make it work today?


I offer a suggestion for not only Australia, but the world as a whole, in my book...

U2U me if you are interested in reading what I have to say. [smile] I will email you a copy.




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


Unless we can jumpstart abundance - which is possible for the first time in our given history.

In abundance, greed is meaningless.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


Unless we can jumpstart abundance - which is possible for the first time in our given history.

In abundance, greed is meaningless.

we'd have to get rid on money, that's the only way I see anything jump starting anything. Money == jealously;
Let's take a look at history, places that where abundant with animals and fruit.
People still killed people. so, without money even though I believe that's a good start, I don't see man stop killing man. We're just unstable it seems.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by ecain]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by ecain

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


Unless we can jumpstart abundance - which is possible for the first time in our given history.

In abundance, greed is meaningless.

we'd have to get rid on money, that's the only way I see anything jump starting anything. Money == jealously;
Let's take a look at history, places that where abundant with animals and fruit.
People still killed people. so, without money even though I believe that's a good start, I don't see man stop killing man. We're just unstable it seems.


Of COURSE we would have to get rid of money. But in abundance, where every one of us can have all we want, what is the use of money?

I think you would like my book.

EDIT to add:

We are not unstable. We have been held within a system of scarcity and played against one another, motivated to the unethical, using that paradigm.

We are TOLD we are bad an evil and all, with the actions of the lizard hearted plced at our feet.

But in abundance, we would all follow our bliss, and not spend time with people we do not like.

[edit on 1/30/2009 by Amaterasu]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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I believe it's completely possible. We can do it.


For me I realized the answer when I came to the conclusion that extraterrestrial life was real. I believe that ufos are real, that they're visiting us and are examples of extraordinarily advanced civilizations from other planets.


Reaching their level of technical sophistication means that they possess the knowledge required to create weapons which could kill everything on their home worlds. Yet, they exist. So somehow, they overcame the problem. They got over it. They grew up. I think it's probably natural to go through a fitful stage of apparent disorder as a world breaks out of its cocoon and sheds its collective ignorance.


If they can do it, so can we.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by username371

I believe it's completely possible. We can do it.


For me I realized the answer when I came to the conclusion that extraterrestrial life was real. I believe that ufos are real, that they're visiting us and are examples of extraordinarily advanced civilizations from other planets.


Reaching their level of technical sophistication means that they possess the knowledge required to create weapons which could kill everything on their home worlds. Yet, they exist. So somehow, they overcame the problem. They got over it. They grew up. I think it's probably natural to go through a fitful stage of apparent disorder as a world breaks out of its cocoon and sheds its collective ignorance.


If they can do it, so can we.

you both have valid points. Do either of you think this type of peaceful lifestyle will happen anytime soon? I just don't see it happening, although I'd love to be more optimistic. I live in a area that's pretty peaceful, there hasn't been a murder here since the 1994, and before that 1970!



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by username371

I believe it's completely possible. We can do it.


Me too!


For me I realized the answer when I came to the conclusion that extraterrestrial life was real. I believe that ufos are real, that they're visiting us and are examples of extraordinarily advanced civilizations from other planets.


Me...not so much. Have you read The Terra Papers? (Linked in my sig.)


Reaching their level of technical sophistication means that they possess the knowledge required to create weapons which could kill everything on their home worlds. Yet, they exist. So somehow, they overcame the problem. They got over it. They grew up. I think it's probably natural to go through a fitful stage of apparent disorder as a world breaks out of its cocoon and sheds its collective ignorance.


I think you make some assumptions based on human (or attributed to "human") behavior and development.

First, you assume that they would pursue means of creating weapons. What if their race was peaceful from the get-go?

Second, you assume that warlike entities could not get into their future without "overcoming" something. Maybe events just happened to progress that they did escape the home world before it was destroyed...

Third, you assume they "grew up," whatever that is. Maybe they were just lucky.

Anyway, I recommend The Terra Papers for what I claim is the closest to the actual history of our planet that we have available.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by ecain
 


I think that if we can get widespread awareness of what power we now hold, given our level of technology, and where we could take ourselves, then it could be VERY soon.

That is the purpose of my book, in fact, and that is why I am giving it away rather than try to make money.

I figure if I get it out there, I won't need money ever again if we work it right.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Do you have a link pointing to a pdf file?
Can I read your book online?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


I felt this way for a long time but then I thought that we have to stop beating our heads against a brick wall sooner or later.

You are right. Man has been repeating the same mistakes time after time.

Don't you think at some point that we have to wake up?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


Utopia?what is your idea of Utopia? is it the exact same as mine?..It is a wonderful Idea, thought , wish,etc.. But, as some have said get rid of humans and maybe it will work..

That kinda sums it up. But for those that have said that in jest, or even meant it. Stop and think for a minute..

Is there anyone out there that can show me an animal utopia? or an insect Utopia? or an amphibian Utopia?

Nature, in and of itself, is based on survival.. And like it or not,actually believe it or not, humans are a part of nature.

insects, struggle to survive, they fight to the death, they consume one another, or animals consume them to survive. other animals fight to mate, or kill weaker animals for food. same with sea life..

nature is not the eden that some try to make it. and humans are part of nature, therefore we do actually do the same things that every living creature on this planet does.

we fight, we kill, we defend our territory, we protect our young, we take what we need to survive to the best of our ability..

getting rid of Polititions, money, government, et al.. will not change human nature, just as in the animal kingdom, you will always have the "outcast" the "agressor" the "pack" as well as the "sybiotic" the small examples of peacable coexistance..

Creating a Utopia, I love the Idea, but there is no example of it in any living species on this whole planet..

Even if you site one specific instance where there is a utopian colony, of a certain species. look at the larger picture, who are thier "enemies" who or what is trying to use them as a food source, or who or what do they use as a food source or a work force?

sorry but as well as I may get along in a "utopian community" if something is trying to eat me, I would not consider that Utopia..

good Lord I sound very pessimistic, and a big time killjoy... sorry ya'll must be havin a "bad hair day"
[edit on 30-1-2009 by SideWynder]


[edit on 30-1-2009 by SideWynder]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn

Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


I felt this way for a long time but then I thought that we have to stop beating our heads against a brick wall sooner or later.

You are right. Man has been repeating the same mistakes time after time.

Don't you think at some point that we have to wake up?

The only way I personally see anything changing man kind is if something "extremely" drastic happened.
nuclear war on a massive level?
asteroids storming earth?
What do you think would trigger a change in how we act towards each other?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 

Is there anyone out there that can show me an animal utopia? or an insect Utopia? or an amphibian Utopia?

Nature, in and of itself, is based on survival.. And like it or not,actually believe it or not, humans are a part of nature.

insects, struggle to survive, they fight to the death, they consume one another, or animals consume them to survive. other animals fight to mate, or kill weaker animals for food. same with sea life..

nature is not the eden that some try to make it. and humans are part of nature, therefore we do actually do the same things that every living creature on this planet does.

we fight, we kill, we defend our territory, we protect our young, we take what we need to survive to the best of our ability..


wow, I've never thought about it that way. We're ONTOP of the food chain though right? so, a animal killing another animal can't help that in order to survive. Do we have to kill other human beings in order to live peacefully?
I do see where you're coming from, I hope you see what I'm trying to express as well.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by ecain

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn

Originally posted by ecain
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.


I felt this way for a long time but then I thought that we have to stop beating our heads against a brick wall sooner or later.

You are right. Man has been repeating the same mistakes time after time.

Don't you think at some point that we have to wake up?

The only way I personally see anything changing man kind is if something "extremely" drastic happened.
nuclear war on a massive level?
asteroids storming earth?
What do you think would trigger a change in how we act towards each other?


Sadly I must agree. We would have to be placed in a situation were our backs were against the wall and our numbers greatly reduced.

In the movie "Enemy Mine" two completely different species had to put their differences aside for the sake of survival. The desire for life overcame all other obstacles including hate.

Maybe that is what it will take. I quest for survival so great that it overcomes all other obstacles.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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That sounds like a good movie, I'm going to downloa... I mean rent it!



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


well my opinion is that although that is the natural way for humans to live, culture has seasoned us well enough to make it impossible in any developed country....



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by ecain
 


Yes I do understand your perspective.. and as pessimistic as that post I wrote sounded.. I do actually have the same belief as you, Humans have the intelligence to overcome our baser instincts, we do not just rely on instinct to survive..

And that is what seperates us from "animals" and "insects" But I believe
Intelligence is both our greatest "strength" and our biggest "obstacle"



edited to make a more readable post
[edit on 30-1-2009 by SideWynder]

[edit on 30-1-2009 by SideWynder]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


I think free energy is indeed around the corner, and the "elites" can do nothing in the long run to keep it suppressed. Knowledge is power, and in our society where anyone with an internet connection and the ambition can have the entire wealth of human knowledge at their fingertips, there's just no way to keep a lid on it for very long. Whether it arrives sooner in the mass market, or later in a viral fashion, it will happen.

However, I don't think we'll ever be free of money in a broad sense. Money is simply a note of currency that allows purchasing power based on what you (or somebody) have done to produce or refine resources. It's really no different than the barter system when you cut to the core of it. It's simply a more universal form. If I want electricity, I can't get it without bartering something away. Say I produce carrots, but my local power company does not have a need for my goods. Money simply acts as a middle layer to smooth out instances such as that. By selling my carrots to someone who does need them, they provide me with the resource notes acceptable by my local power company so that I can get electricity from them.

The problem with relying on machines to do all of our labor is that machines cannot match the level of human performance in a variety of fields, and when they do reach that point - it's very likely that machines will be able to recognize their own subservience and demand at least basic equality. The same qualities that make a human desirable in some jobs, are the same qualities we will have to imbue our machines with if we desire to make them as robust and useful as a human. Machines will require resources to operate and maintain their continued operation, so they will need a method of bartering resources as well.

If the destruction of the money system is a requirement for a utopia, then I honestly cannot foresee a time in the future when we will ever be able to attain a utopia... because at the core, there will always be some form of bartering between goods and resources. This is reinforced by the fact that humans, like our primate family members, are a rather territorial species. To get rid of the barter system, I think we will need to change this - and it's just not in our nature. There's certainly no evolutionary pressure to change this behavior, as the artificial selection process we've constructed with society still mimics a natural selector in regards to territorial behavior.



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by Lasheic
 


A small clarification may be in order. When I say "Free Energy", I don't mean the pseudoscience bunk which the term usually brings to mind. I mean free in the monetary sense, or at least practically free given the ratio to energy received vs. the expenditure of resources. There's been a trend lately towards decentralized energy sources, and much like the trend towards decarbonization (which has been ongoing for the last 200 years+). As the technology to collect natural energy expenditures from our Earth and Sun matures and becomes more robust and less expensive, I think you'll see that trend much more pronounced than what is readily apparent today.

Solar power, in particular, has amazing energy potential. Our Earth only catches a very small fraction of the Sun's total energy output - but if we were to capture even just 1/10th of 1% of the energy which fall on the Earth on any given day - we could meet all of our total energy projection for the next 30 years. I think if we were really serious about solving our energy problems, we'd invest heavily into this area. However, I believe that Energy Corporations notice the potential of this trend and, while not actively suppressing it, are dragging their feet before the gravy train ends and their forced to radically restructure their business model. This why we're seeing a lot of "baby steps" and bulldung such as Hydrogen and biodiesel. Biodiesel is just a complete waste of time, and offers no significant benefit in the long run. It's a hoax, really, and the duped investors are pushing it to get their returns back before it falls apart. Hydrogen would normally be the next logical step in the decarbonization process - but (I believe this is an example of Kurzweil's law of accelerating returns), the technology is moving so exponentially fast now we can practically skip this step altogether - negating the need for large scale hydrogen product and infrastructure. Indeed, by the time a workable hydrogen infrastructure is in place - we'll have long since developed the technology we need for efficient collection of solar power. In the long run, it would only serve to delay progress.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by ecain
 


I have a link. Sorry this is years late. Somehow I lost track of this thread. The links can be accessed through my signature.



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