It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Could we do it?

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:16 PM
link   
I just finished watching the Venus Project. I do not want to talk about the project itself. I want to know if you think that Utopia is a real possibility.


Do you think that any country could pull this off?

Do you think that humans have the ability to live in peace and harmony on a large scale? Not small individual communes. I am talking about living together in a huge numbers like on the scale of cities and countries in peace and harmony.

Do you think is could be done?

Why?

Why not?




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:42 PM
link   
I have written a short book that brings this into focus. Any who would like a copy of my book, I welcome U2U's with emails. [smile]

I say, Yes, it can be done.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


I don't think it could be done at this time due to the fact that most people look at a flag and the dirt they were born on and are willing to kill for it.
We are not we yet,its still us vs them.
My two cents.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:47 PM
link   
I see no possibility of any utopia. There always will be problems, conflicts and exploitation. So it should be constant struggle with our "bad" side and gradual improvements in details. Only by replacing Humans with something else utopia could be reached but then what's the point?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:50 PM
link   
Utopia is certainly possible. Just make certain no humans are involved, and that's exactly what you have.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


I don't think it could be done at this time due to the fact that most people look at a flag and the dirt they were born on and are willing to kill for it.
We are not we yet,its still us vs them.
My two cents.


[smile] You should read my book.

Yes, we will have issues until and unless we have a common goal, and for that, we need a vision.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:45 PM
link   
I think we the people of the world could live utopia style after seeing all of the horror we have seen if ...we would put all POLITICIANS on a spaceship and shoot them into space with a one way ticket...

Or...Make all trouble makers live on one continent maybe...

You know something like Alcatraz...(the prison on a island...)

I am so sick of all the GREED...



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:05 PM
link   
To my mind, "Utopia" is a place where civility, respect, security, and dignity were all abundant. We currently have no idea what such a society would look like. People think that our current economy is based on money, but it isn't. It's based on the scarcity of these intangible commodities. Our consumer culture is a dynamic engine that requires a perceived scarcity of security, respect, dignity, health, etc.. If you drive a 13 year old car, people will not respect you. If you don't buy $4000 worth of beauty supplies every year, no one will find you attractive. Etc.

Studies indicate that Americans judge their "success" based upon how much money they make (can display) compared to their neighbors.

The Utopian ideal is not attainable at present, because even smart and accomplished human beings are mostly exterior dwellers, with no real knowledge or appreciation of what really motivates them and how their own minds work. They don't even know that they don't know. They may think they believe in Utopian ideals, but the Utopia would fall apart under the weight of unexplored and uncomprehended internal psychological pressures.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by applebiter
To my mind, "Utopia" is a place where civility, respect, security, and dignity were all abundant. We currently have no idea what such a society would look like.


I think *I* do... I present it in my book...


People think that our current economy is based on money, but it isn't. It's based on the scarcity of these intangible commodities.


Interestingly...my book is called... The Abundance Paradigm.


Our consumer culture is a dynamic engine that requires a perceived scarcity of security, respect, dignity, health, etc.. If you drive a 13 year old car, people will not respect you. If you don't buy $4000 worth of beauty supplies every year, no one will find you attractive. Etc.


[smile] Of course...it is your choice to CARE whether people judge you by the car you drive or the cosmetics you wear...


Studies indicate that Americans judge their "success" based upon how much money they make (can display) compared to their neighbors.


And yet you say that the economy isn't based on money...


The Utopian ideal is not attainable at present, because even smart and accomplished human beings are mostly exterior dwellers, with no real knowledge or appreciation of what really motivates them and how their own minds work.


I beg to differ... It is unattainable because we are stuck in a scarcity paradigm. Have been throughout the history we have been given. Utopia is attainable if we can shift paradigms.


They don't even know that they don't know. They may think they believe in Utopian ideals, but the Utopia would fall apart under the weight of unexplored and uncomprehended internal psychological pressures.


I agree with this... Most are stuck in the scarcity paradigm. And as long as we view things from that vantage point, we will not see what we can accomplish.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:51 PM
link   
There will never be such a thing as Utopia, because there will always be people in such a society who see only the present and insist on complaining how horrible they have it. The first world societies enjoyed by Europe, America, parts of Asia, etc are utter paradises compared to how we used to live even 100 years ago. 200 years ago. 500, 1,000... 10,000 years ago. We have longer life spans, healthier food, advanced medicine, basic human rights, free exchanges of ideas, a justice system based on the rule of law - written by men and women elected to power to represent them by free thinking individuals. We have basic education, equality between race, sex, and sexual orientation. Even some of the lowest income families live in conditions better than even the kings of old had. We have so much leisure time, that it has become a multitude of powerful industries just figuring out how to entertain us all! We wield what they could only describe as profound magic every day as if it's no big deal.

No, the system we have isn't perfect, and we are still struggling very ardently with many of these things I mentioned. Indeed, I'm sure many of you have a list the length of your driveway of breeches of aspiration to the list I posted.

We still live in a paradise compared to our ancestors. We live in our father's utopia, while wishing for our children's. In 500 years, our ancestors will likely look back at our time as some "golden era" - all the while bemoaning their current problems and injustices. Why? Simply because they don't live in our time. They live in theirs.

Amazingly, at least, for the first time in history - some of us may be around to correct them. Provided the rose colored shades don't obscure our vision.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Lasheic]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by sapphirearaidia
Or...Make all trouble makers live on one continent maybe...

You know something like Alcatraz...(the prison on a island...)


lawl, we tried that. It's called Australia mate.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lasheic

Originally posted by sapphirearaidia
Or...Make all trouble makers live on one continent maybe...

You know something like Alcatraz...(the prison on a island...)


lawl, we tried that. It's called Australia mate.


So you are saying you failed.

Why?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:31 PM
link   
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


Er... "We" as in, the collective human experience. We have already tried that. England wasn't a utopia after shipping their convicts off to Australia. So yes, it failed. On the bright side, Australia is a safe, beautiful, and rather peaceful nation with a funky but overall likable accent.

Huge bugs and lots of venomous critters though.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


Er... "We" as in, the collective human experience. We have already tried that. England wasn't a utopia after shipping their convicts off to Australia. So yes, it failed. On the bright side, Australia is a safe, beautiful, and rather peaceful nation with a funky but overall likable accent.

Huge bugs and lots of venomous critters though.


Yes. I know quite a lot about the history of Australia and New Zealand. In fact I am in the middle of a book about that experiment right now.

What I was asking was why Australia which is truly a perfect site for a Utopia experiment would not be able to make that happen?

Forget what has gone before. What would make it work today?




Make it good because I have always had a thing for Australia. I can over look the wacky accent, the snakes and bugs. They can’t be any worse then here.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:25 PM
link   
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 





What I was asking was why Australia which is truly a perfect site for a Utopia experiment would not be able to make that happen?


I've already answered this question above.

The only, -ONLY-, reason why I mentioned Australia at all is because the poster I quoted off-offhandedly mentioned shipping undesirables to an island continent to keep them contained away from a Utopian society. Engaging in a very similar premise has not brought the Great British Empire any closer to a Utopian society.

The state of Australia afterward is rather irrelevant to my point, because the focus was on Brittan.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry dude but I don't listen to sentences that start out with smile...you should...
Good luck with yer book.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry dude but I don't listen to sentences that start out with smile...you should...
Good luck with yer book.


[shrug]

Your choice to "listen" or not. No skin off my nose.

And thanks for the wishes. [smile]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Lasheic
There will never be such a thing as Utopia, because there will always be people in such a society who see only the present and insist on complaining how horrible they have it. The first world societies enjoyed by Europe, America, parts of Asia, etc are utter paradises compared to how we used to live even 100 years ago. 200 years ago. 500, 1,000... 10,000 years ago. We have longer life spans, healthier food, advanced medicine, basic human rights, free exchanges of ideas, a justice system based on the rule of law - written by men and women elected to power to represent them by free thinking individuals. We have basic education, equality between race, sex, and sexual orientation. Even some of the lowest income families live in conditions better than even the kings of old had. We have so much leisure time, that it has become a multitude of powerful industries just figuring out how to entertain us all! We wield what they could only describe as profound magic every day as if it's no big deal.


While I agree with the bulk of what you say relative to a scarcity paradigm, that is all we have known. Today, we stand at a unique point in our history in that we can now cast off our slavery - all work that no one wants to do - to machines.

If we can wrest free energy from the Elite, we will have the energy we need to accomplish this. And if we accomplish this, we can set up efficient and ubiquitous distribution systems, organically farmed produce (I go into this more deeply in my book), and every one of the 6.5 billion+ of us Humans can live on the par of today's super Elite.

This is the abundance paradigm.

In this setup, greed is moot because if you want it you can have it. Money is moot because if you can have it if you want it, what point would money be? Instead of spending time with people we don't like because we have to for our jobs, we could choose to spend time with those we do like.

There are a few other points that the abundance paradigm needs to be fully functional, but I have them in my book, and don't want to spend time typing them here again. U2U me with an email I can send the book to if you're interested.


No, the system we have isn't perfect, and we are still struggling very ardently with many of these things I mentioned. Indeed, I'm sure many of you have a list the length of your driveway of breeches of aspiration to the list I posted.


Not really, as all you describe springs from a scarcity paradigm. Shift the paradigm and it's a whole new ball game.


Amazingly, at least, for the first time in history - some of us may be around to correct them. Provided the rose colored shades don't obscure our vision.


For the first time in history (at least that which we have been given) we have the power to shift away from scarcity.

And that is far more than colored glasses.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:03 PM
link   
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 


I think that a Utopia is possible and will happen.

Part of learning is making mistakes after all.

It will take time but eventually in the end we will get there.

Read that last line metaphorically as well.



[edit on 30-1-2009 by XXXN3O]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:11 PM
link   
I don't ever see man living in peace. For as far as the history dates, man has been killing man. The greed of man runs way too deep.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join