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Smoking Banned in Homes-California Adopts 'Hitler's Policy'

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Sestias

The question of condos is a more complicated one. The smoker owns the condo and it's his or her private property, but the people in the next condo could be affected and they own their home as well. I've heard people claim that cigarette smoke can leak through the walls of their unit from the one next door, though I'm sceptical that it actually does. One couple in a documentary was suing their neighbors because they were smokers and, they thought, causing their property value to go down. It could still be ok if the smokers could just go out on their balconies or on their porches, but it seems people want to ban that too.

What happens if a person moves into a smoking-permitted unit and then a few years later is told they can't smoke? Would they legally have to move out? Would there be special smoking ghettos located in the less desirable parts of town?


It's getting insane.

Just burn a little incense like you do when you're not smoking tobacco.


It's not that easy, burning a little incense does not make second hand smoke go away, and if your health is being affected by it, or the home you paid money for, then it's an issue. Smoke does drift through walls and other areas, imagine if you had neighbours who smoked crack and the smoke drifted into your home? Or they had a meth lab and the vapours drifted into your home?

To the non smoker, it's almost as bad. Smokers don't seem to understand this. The vapours get through walls, and if you are a non smoker, then it affects your health in an adverse manner. Imagine having a health condition, then having it made worst by second hand smoke, or having a child with a health condition and having that made worst by second hand smoke?

It's a balanciing act.




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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That is seriously sad. I do feel that they are moving towards outlawing smoking all together. Another thing I find rediculous is that you can't smoke pretty much anywhere in some places, they keep raising taxes on cigarettes all in the name of saving the lives of non-smokers. My thought, what about all those non-drinkers who are killed by drunk drivers? I would like to know how many people have smoked too many cigarettes and flipped out and murdered someone, or got behind the wheel of their car and killed a couple of kids because they just smoked one too many that night. I am willing to bet that the number is zero or pretty close. Call me crazy but maybe they are trying to get people to quiet the wrong habit?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by CoffinFeederhere's an idea, don't like something?


Non smokers have done that for years.



Frankly, what the non smokers need to do is drop the liberalism, and learn some old fashioned tolerance again. The reaction and answer you get from walking into a smoky bar and telling everyone to put out their cigarettes and never smoke there again becuase it bothers you should be approximately the same as joe plumber walking into a sorority house, and declaring clothes offend him and they should remove them all immediately and never wear them in his presence again. Yeah, fat chance.


Ugly clothing does not give you eye cancer, or affect your breathing. Ugly clothing does not make you sick and ill, smoking does. Ugly clothing might give you a headache, but smoking does give many headaches, breathing problems, etc.

It's not the same, it's apples to oranges.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by paraniod??
That is seriously sad. I do feel that they are moving towards outlawing smoking all together. Another thing I find rediculous is that you can't smoke pretty much anywhere in some places, they keep raising taxes on cigarettes all in the name of saving the lives of non-smokers. My thought, what about all those non-drinkers who are killed by drunk drivers? I would like to know how many people have smoked too many cigarettes and flipped out and murdered someone, or got behind the wheel of their car and killed a couple of kids because they just smoked one too many that night. I am willing to bet that the number is zero or pretty close. Call me crazy but maybe they are trying to get people to quiet the wrong habit?


Smokers don't activly kill, they passively kill. I am sure we can find the stats for death by secoond hand smoke if you give me a moment.


www.lungusa.org...





Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.4



Secondhand smoke causes almost 50,000 deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year, including approximately 3,400 from lung cancer and 22,700-69,600 from heart disease.5



Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.6


When you get into an auto accident, you might die right away, second hand smoke death is slow and not pleasant. Why should you have to be ill, or die from second hand smoke?

Live healthy, eat right, but die because someone else has a smoking addition. It's all a drug addition, smokers just have lot's of other addicts, but their issues kill the same way, just slower.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Harassment101]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Harassment101

Originally posted by paraniod??
That is seriously sad. I do feel that they are moving towards outlawing smoking all together. Another thing I find rediculous is that you can't smoke pretty much anywhere in some places, they keep raising taxes on cigarettes all in the name of saving the lives of non-smokers. My thought, what about all those non-drinkers who are killed by drunk drivers? I would like to know how many people have smoked too many cigarettes and flipped out and murdered someone, or got behind the wheel of their car and killed a couple of kids because they just smoked one too many that night. I am willing to bet that the number is zero or pretty close. Call me crazy but maybe they are trying to get people to quiet the wrong habit?


Smokers don't activly kill, they passively kill. I am sure we can find the stats for death by secoond hand smoke if you give me a moment.



Good luck..your gonna need alot of it.

BTW..2nd hand smoke is less than .1 percent of the stuff us smokers inhale..why you ask? Simple..our lungs trap 99 percent of what we inhale.

Now while your on your little quest to find proof of 2nd hand smoke deaths, look up the stats on deaths caused by breathing in the toxic fumes from car exausts which are 1000 times more toxic and in far more abundance in the air than 1000 smoker's 2nd hand smoke.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by Harassment101
 


right right its understandable with all the drugs and stuff but really.... smoking tobacco is not illegal. yes its the smoke is annoying when you dont smoke but will it really go from one apartment room to another to a point were you get second hand smoke? thats sounds a little over the edge



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Good luck..your gonna need alot of it.

BTW..2nd hand smoke is less than .1 percent of the stuff us smokers inhale..why you ask? Simple..our lungs trap 99 percent of what we inhale.

Now while your on your little quest to find proof of 2nd hand smoke deaths, look up the stats on deaths caused by breathing in the toxic fumes from car exausts which are 1000 times more toxic and in far more abundance in the air than 1000 smoker's 2nd hand smoke.



Cheers!!!!


If people had to be in their home, and sucking down car fumes daily, I would be in opposition to that, the same way I am to them having to suck down someone else's filth. If you are not a smoker, why should you have all the same issues? Smokers cough, breathing problems, a home that smells of smoke?

I think it's one step at a time. The point is they are both toxic, one you inhale for 20 minutes while in traffic, the other you suck on for over 8-24 hrs. Big difference.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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The car argument is a red herring.

All the other pollution sources in the world don't justify people having to put up with cigarette smoke.

I'm not in favor of banning the product or the government reaching too far into the private affairs of citizens, but the car argument only makes smokers sound addled and desperate.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by FerTheBetter
reply to post by Harassment101
 


right right its understandable with all the drugs and stuff but really.... smoking tobacco is not illegal. yes its the smoke is annoying when you dont smoke but will it really go from one apartment room to another to a point were you get second hand smoke? thats sounds a little over the edge


I know it's not illigal, but it affect the innocent, just like if you had a crack smoking neighour.

Smoke is not annoying, if it was annoying that would not be bad, smoking is destructive to ones health. I am not just saying that.

Smoke can drift through walls to the extent that if you don't smoke, people come to your home and they think you are a smoker. It's that bad. Think of fire when there is smoke inhallation, it goes through walls. Same thing, and over time, it builds and it causes problems. Sorry to say it, but yes it's that bad. The problem is people don't think of it that way. They don't understand, unless they are being affected that way.

I feel bad for smokers, but not bad enought to let someone's addiction, destroy my health or life.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Harassment101
 


20 minutes in traffic eh? Tell that to the people in Los Angeles or in NY or in Atlanta or in El Paso or in any major city where it takes up to 2 hours to get from point A to point B during drive time.

BTW, not all smokers constantly smoke. For instance, I have 1 cig every 2 hours, thats 12 smokes per 24 hour period and since I do sleep for at least 6 of those 24 hours, that removes 3 cigs for a total of 9 cigs per day.

If you were able to capture that amount of 2nd hand smoke into a container, and then capture the amount of car exaust in that same time frame of 24 hours into a container, do you honestly expect anyone with as little as a 2nd grade level education to believe that the 2nd hand smoke container will be more than the container of car exaust????





Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The car argument is a red herring.

All the other pollution sources in the world don't justify people having to put up with cigarette smoke.

I'm not in favor of banning the product or the government reaching too far into the private affairs of citizens, but the car argument only makes smokers sound addled and desperate.



See I don't like the governmet telling people what they can do either. I think they should look into smoking rooms. Fully enclosed areas, where smokers can go to get doped up. As long as I was not affect by their addiction, then I would have no problem with them using in the home.

I am even down with having specific apartment buildings some for smoking some for none smoking, so the smokers could live with each other, and the none smokers could live with each other.

I am open to ideas, but for too long it's been the none smoker moving, opening windows, buying air cleansing product, air filters, opening balcony doors in the heart of winter, to accomidate other people's addictions.

Sorry but I don't think it's appropriate.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The car argument is a red herring.

All the other pollution sources in the world don't justify people having to put up with cigarette smoke.

I'm not in favor of banning the product or the government reaching too far into the private affairs of citizens, but the car argument only makes smokers sound addled and desperate.



No, its a fact. Unfortunatley those who are sounding so desperate out here are the non smokers wishing for that phantom clean air, which does not exsist since the first coal fired steam engine locomotive.

Non smokers just have to deal with it just like we have to deal with everything else in life. If the air is that foul where you stand, stand somewhere else where the air is cleaner. Good luck finding it.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


He does, his name is Arnold Schwarzenegger

Austrian son of a Nazi volunteer

Seik Hiel - Cal-ee-for-neeah

[edit on 29-1-2009 by arizonascott]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by Harassment101
 


20 minutes in traffic eh? Tell that to the people in Los Angeles or in NY or in Atlanta or in El Paso or in any major city where it takes up to 2 hours to get from point A to point B during drive time.

BTW, not all smokers constantly smoke. For instance, I have 1 cig every 2 hours, thats 12 smokes per 24 hour period and since I do sleep for at least 6 of those 24 hours, that removes 3 cigs for a total of 9 cigs per day.

If you were able to capture that amount of 2nd hand smoke into a container, and then capture the amount of car exaust in that same time frame of 24 hours into a container, do you honestly expect anyone with as little as a 2nd grade level education to believe that the 2nd hand smoke container will be more than the container of car exaust????





Cheers!!!!


Two hours in traffic, vs 8-24 hrs in a private enclosed dwelling filled with smoke, cause even if you space out the smoking, it still sticks and stinks and still eventually causes breathing problems, smokers cough, and other health problems for the non smoker.

At least driving you get breaks, when trapped in an apartment next to a smoker even if that smoker only lights up a few times a day, it affects you after several months. The health issues start, and why should anyone have to put up with that?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Harassment101
I am even down with having specific apartment buildings some for smoking some for none smoking, so the smokers could live with each other, and the none smokers could live with each other.


Nothing wrong with that IMO. We move for you..so you can move for yourself too.



Originally posted by Harassment101
I am open to ideas, but for too long it's been the none smoker moving, opening windows, buying air cleansing product, air filters, opening balcony doors in the heart of winter, to accomidate other people's addictions.
Sorry but I don't think it's appropriate.


So from that prospective..knowing that us smokers HAVE moved out of the way for you non smokers, that you think its inappropriate for you to take 5 steps upwind or open your windows (God only knows why you would in your own smoke free home open a window in the dead of winter) and we smokers have gathered up in our smoking areas that all you non smokers pushed for and we gladly moved into them..and you still think that is not enough?

Well unfortunately we all cannot get what we want all the time. Thats just life.


Cheers!!!!

[edit on 29-1-2009 by RFBurns]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
No, its a fact. Unfortunatley those who are sounding so desperate out here are the non smokers wishing for that phantom clean air, which does not exsist since the first coal fired steam engine locomotive.

Non smokers just have to deal with it just like we have to deal with everything else in life. If the air is that foul where you stand, stand somewhere else where the air is cleaner. Good luck finding it.



Cheers!!!!


Non smokers have had to deal with it, putting up with it. It's not like everything else. If someone is smoking outside on ground level you can walk away. I usually do.

If someone is smoking in their home, you can not walk away when it starts to affect your home. You can open windows, and as mentioned balcony doors, back doors, but in the heart of winter, this is not a fun solution.

Smokers should deal with their addictions, or build encolsed areas for their addicitons. I would not want a meth lab, or crack smoker anymore than I want any other type of smoker, because eventually they all affect your health.

Sorry to sound harsh, but it does affect your health. If it was just an annoyance it would be one thing, but it's more than that.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Harassment101
 


yeaaa i wouldn't let someones addiction destroy my health either. second hand smoke is a bad thing. haha maybe they should start putting smoke proof walls in those apartments/ condos. maybe that would help the smoke stay in that one smokers room



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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No comment really needed. Try to come to my house and tell me what to do. Smoking or anything else. I have multiple calibers, and might as well start with the first dumbass that shows up. Figure I've got somewhere between four, and five hundred rounds readily accessible, and my wife has a few more than that. Plus she is a better shot than I.
Oh yes, forgot to say that I qualify as a sharpshooter from my military days. _ _ _ k California ! Hope it falls off the continent.

p.s. (Thanks for the ip address privacy.)



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Harassment101

Two hours in traffic, vs 8-24 hrs in a private enclosed dwelling filled with smoke, cause even if you space out the smoking, it still sticks and stinks and still eventually causes breathing problems, smokers cough, and other health problems for the non smoker.


That sounds like an issue with the apartment building or workplace building air ventilation system, not an issue with smokers.



Originally posted by Harassment101
At least driving you get breaks, when trapped in an apartment next to a smoker even if that smoker only lights up a few times a day, it affects you after several months. The health issues start, and why should anyone have to put up with that?


As I pointed out in another thread...when was the last time your apartment vents were cleaned? Are you aware that CDC proved that indoor air is far worse than the outdoor air?

Take a white towel, attach it to a stick, shove that down the air vent and pull it back out.

If you see alot of dark soot and lint, there is your reason for breathing and health problems.

I will bet that you will see that dark soot more than you will see any brown soot from cigarette smoke.

Try it and see. If you got dirty air vents, and the apartment or workplace has not cleaned those vents for a long time, that is why you get sick.

Changing filters on the air handler unit does not clean the vents.

Seperating smokers from non smokers in an apartment building or condo, I have no problem with. I dont think any other smoker would have a problem with that either. But to you non-smokers, even that wont be good enough after a period of time..just as it isnt good enough now for us smokers to go outside or be in our designated smoking areas.

Unfortunately, no one can control the direction of the wind, but you certianly can determine which way to take a few steps to be upwind.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Nothing wrong with that IMO. We move for you..so you can move for yourself too.



Well i guess people with crack smoking neighbours should be the ones to move, cause obviously they have the problem.


So from that prospective..knowing that us smokers HAVE moved out of the way for you non smokers, that you think its inappropriate for you to take 5 steps upwind or open your windows (God only knows why you would in your own smoke free home open a window in the dead of winter) and we smokers have gathered up in our smoking areas that all you non smokers pushed for and we gladly moved into them..and you still think that is not enough?

Well unfortunately we all cannot get what we want all the time. Thats just life.

Cheers!!!!

[edit on 29-1-2009 by RFBurns]

Actually I have made it quite clear that in open areas where I can avoid smokers I do. I will walk away or steer clear. The point of this discussion is smoking in the home.

I would open a window or door in the middle of winter, because the unpleasent smoke is causing me to choke in my own home. Being unable to breath vs an open window, the open window wins. As pointed out, when you live next to a smoker, your home is no longer smoke free.

If you want to go live in a smoking apartment, I will gladly go and live in a smoke free apartment. 100% smoke free. They are becoming more common, but they fill up quickly.

I am all for smoking and none smoking buildings. As long as your addiction does not infringe upon my health. If I can have a truly smoke free home, exposure of current private citizen surveillance programs, I would be pretty close.



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