Who was the first Vampire

Interesting thread

i think its Lilith, the first wife of Adam that is cast out of Eden, who turns into a monster that drinks the blood of children...thats the earliest reference to Vampires i know of...Judas is an interesting research project also, Silver, holy water(baptism), the cross, mirrors, etc. There was also a Queen that bathed daily in the blood of Virgin girls..i cant remember her name...lived in the early middle ages, she was famous as a vampire as well.
hope you keep posting

Originally posted by Jonna
Watching Dracula 2 were we!?! Some say Lilith, some Vlad Tepies, but it is all just a legend placed over a medical disease to me.

What disease do you mean, Jonna?

First of all...the first stories of tales of Vampyric action goes all the way back to Egypt . And the legend states that the first Vampyre(Nosfyrata, which is egyptian for living dragon, or Nosferatu/latin for night-stalker) was Kronias an "immortal", who was said to live hundreds of years and move all the world. He had 3 sons, Kanus, Linphy, and Horats. The 3 sons hatched a plan to kill the father and drink his blood to seal the pact they had made. But when the kill had been struck, the sons began fighting for the first drink, and they began to kill each other as well. The legend/story/myth says that when he(Kronias) arrived in the Underworld, at the same time his sons were fighting, he struck a deal with Osiris to live forever to make up for the life that was stolen from him. Since Kronias neglected to mention he was already Immortal and would have revived from his death anyway, Osiris made the deal, to let him live forever, but kept his(Kronias') soul in the underworld as a penance for holding back all of the truth. Osiris told Kronias that he would have to ingest the blood of the living and youthful in order to stay alive now that his soul was gone, and in order to help him do that, he gave Kronias "fangs" to help pierce the skin of his victims.

Another myth is that during the 13th or 14th Century, some French Knights went on a crusade. They got stranded in the mountains near Transylvania and were forced to feed on each others flesh in order to stay alive. In the morning when the Daylight came the 14 remaining Knights battled to the death in order to keep the secret of what they had done. The winning Knight was so ashamed of what had transpired that he tried to take his own life, he fell upon his own sword and almost died. But, he did not die, although his soul had left his body, his body did not die. He awoke cursed for his actions to relive the action of drinking his victims blood, over and over again. The Knight will not walk in sunlight, for fear his actions will be seen by all.

Now, these are both myths/legends/tales or what have you. But since there are literally hundreds more tales about where Vampyric action/heritage came from, I think it would be ignorant of us to completely rule out it's existence entirely.

My name is Cerce Iscariot. Through extensive (really extensive) research by a few generations of my family, we've found nothing but ties to Judas Iscariot... our bloodlines seem to run there; I havent found anyone else who would fit globally as a family ancestor. We've been agnostic for hundereds of years, if that's anything... dunno, ask questions if u need to; hopefully I can answer.

I tried to read through this thread but at some point it turned into a flaming contest so here is my opinion and I hope I am not repeating what someone elese has said in the thread.

I think the first Vampire was Cain. And I thought that before The Matrix Reloaded. I thought it was cool though how the Wach Bros represented Cain and Able as Vampires. I would sat that Able however was not a vampire. And I question if they were even really brothers.

Vlad was an evil man indeed and definately a mass murderer, but not a vampire. I would say Cain was the first vampire.


Nutzo

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
I always thought Lilith, Adam's first wife, was the first vampire. Wasn't she cursed to feed off the children of Adam?

I would say that she was prob the genesis of the vampire legend, so to speak. She's a very scary she-devil.

Lilith, aside from a stray reference comparing her to a "screechowl" (the translation is debatable), does not appear in the Bible itself. It is in Rabbinic midrash (presumably relying on earlier legends) that we find the full delineation of Lilith. The rabbis began with the Biblical reference to man's first creation as a bisexual being--"male and female He [God] created them [the first human]". Some of the rabbis found in this image something similar to what Aristophanes proposed in the Symposium: a dual bodied being later divided into two who must thereafter seek each other out. But others tried to take into account the later creation of Eve detailed further on in the text. If woman was created from Adam, after his initial creation, than what happened to the female created at first? The answer, according to the Midrash, was that she was Lilith; created with Adam, she refused to comply with Adam's demand that she submit herself to him, and in the end fled from him by using the Ineffable Name. Adam then complained to God about his loneliness, and the creation of Eve followed, together with the "Fall" and the Expulsion from Eden. Adam, blaming this on Eve, separated from her, and for a time reunited with Lilith, before finally returning to Eve. (The details of this first soap opera are reported with various embellishments.) Lilith bore Adam a number of children in this interval, who became the demons. After Adam's reconcilation with Eve, Lilith assumed the Queenship of the Demons; in some versions she is the consort of Samael, in others she remains unpartnered. As Queen of the Demons, she kills babies in their cribs (apparently this was the folk explanation of SIDS), but only in the first days of their life. Her greatest opportunity is with infant boys before their circumcision on the eigth day, and in Germanic lands Jews developed the custom of the "Watch-night" to counter her, a semi-magical vigil around the crib on the night preceding the performance of the brit milah. In addition to this, she still produces children, according to a much later Kabbalistic elaboration. These demons are the children of men, as her original offspring were the children of Adam, Lilith being impregnated by the semen produced by masturbation and nocturnal emissions.

Quoted from "an essay by Jeffery Smith "
ccat.sas.upenn.edu...

Also it seems that she was the Partner ( wife? ) of Samael or Satan. It seems that the story of lilith goes back before Judaism and may have had a part in the Epic of Gilgamesh, see above link for more info.


[edit on 7-6-2004 by Janus]

Also lilith has a connection with mirrors.
art.net...
As do the Vampire's of Eastern Europe. Acording to legend lilith used a mirror to draw a young girl to her.
Also the jewish legends indicates that the only way to protect a child less than 8 days old from being taken by Lilith was to hang an Amulet with the names of 3 Angels and the names of Adam and Eve incribed on them.
ccat.sas.upenn.edu...
Perhaps over time the amulets went from crude clay tablets to the Christian Cross as we know it.
Lilith also seems to have been known to use seduction as a means of getting a man to inpregnate her ( perhaps she is also connected to the sucubus as well? ) Seduction in one form or another seems to play a big part in the Vampire myth, but that may just be Hollywood.
Lilith also is credited with being the mother of all demons, as Vampires could be classed as demons of a sort then in Myth and legend she must have been their Progenitor. Perhaps Vampires cast no reflection in mirrors because Lilith uses them as portal into our world, who knows. Non the less the legend of Lilith is a fasinating one.
EDIT: Edited for typo



[edit on 7-6-2004 by Janus]

[edit on 7-6-2004 by Janus]

Originally posted by toolmaker

There was also a Queen that bathed daily in the blood of Virgin girls..i cant remember her name...lived in the early middle ages, she was famous as a vampire as well.
hope you keep posting

you almost had it. Countess Bathory was the first documented REAL PERSON who practiced the (the rituals we relate to the vampire myth)blood drinking, bathing in, etc...rituals for preservation of youth, immortality. Lilith could be but who can prove she is any more than a myth. Vlad Tepes was closer to a barbarian than a vampire. research bram stoker's work & remove his name from the list. it is interesting to note that Countess Bathory was related to Vlad Tepes. Vlad Tepes was not a vampire at all...

I found this very interesting Mini biography of Countess Bathory, it seems that real life monsters can be much more frightening than Mythical ones.
bathory.org...
Interestingly there is a reference to the Countess suffering a seisure that may have led to her madness . I have never looked at the history of the vampire myth before, but am having a lot of fun finding out.
Picture and link from Bathory.org and are from a site by Dennis B�thory-Kitsz
EDIT:Edited for typo ( i have big fingers lol )





[edit on 8-6-2004 by Janus]

Now i know u have probably see Dracula 2000, and i know ur saying...'she's just stolen the idea'...but i am honestly saying i thought this WAY before i saw that film.

Jesus tapdancing christ, it didn't make any sense in the film either. You goths are so predictable.

Has anyone see this thread. Basically it talks about Prince Charles and or Prince William being the Antichrist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Isn't there a line from Vlad the Impaler to The current Princes of England? I just think it's interesting how the signs of the antichrist are strong with someone who is in this bloodline.

Text Black one could say im not a practicing Catholic so i'm not gonna give u a Catholic point of view. why do people keep refering back to Vlad the Impaler-vampirism? he was a cannibal and a mass murderer i dont think he was much more. if every cannibal and/or mass murderer was a vampire, history would be scattered with lots of vampires. my theory is that sure vampires could exist but they exist as an alternate evolutionary path. their physical attributes adapted over years to fit their environment. i dont know where they would be if such a thing were to be true. if such a thing were true, sure Judas Iscariot could have been a vampire, as farfetched an idea as that is. he could have been part of the adaptation. maybe characteristics were a birth defect. People get extra fingers and such abnormalities so why not long eye teeth. maybe a cult started by or consisting of cannabilistic people with distinctive teeth attributes. it could have been or still be a widespread cult therefore the aboundance of vampiric stories. these are my thoughts on the subject, hope to see further posts

I would tend towards Lilith being the first...but another possible candidate (other than Judas or Vlad) would be the Roman soldier (blanking on the name right now) who stuck a spear in Jesus (spear of destiny), and cursed to walk the world until Armageddon....

Another angle is (as used in the White Wolf game), Cain (of Cain and Able)....

ANyone ever read Saints and Shadows? .. book one to the Shadow saga by Christopher Golden.. A good read, with an interesting plot twist.. That not Judas, but Jesus being the fisrt Vampire..
Having to deal with the idea that before He was Crucified, Jesus spent tme in Hell, becoming tainted. Only avoiding full corruption due to His inate divinity. Thus being part demon/part devine...

because she sucked the life out of the garden of eden.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I would tend towards Lilith being the first...but another possible candidate (other than Judas or Vlad) would be the Roman soldier (blanking on the name right now) who stuck a spear in Jesus (spear of destiny), and cursed to walk the world until Armageddon....

That would be Longinus, although according to the Catholic Forum he died and is now considered a saint.

How about there was no 1st vampire at all ive seen nothing to prove there existence one way or another,just rehashed movie plots and vayge legends.At this point i would belive in the tooth fairy more then a vampire.

It could be said that all of these people were vampires... not in the sense of the horror movie version but with enough simularity.. to be able to say "If the shoe fits, wear it."

In effect it would not matter who was the first, because the state of being a Vampire is of the mind and not by some blood disease that is a spreadable curse, and all "vampires" were so dubbed for different but still horrific acts.

Lilith is actually more associated with succubus than she is with vampires. The only reason that she is so now widely accepted as the mother of all vampires is because of the book "Lilith Dreams" (can't remember the author) and references made by Anne Rice in her Vampire chronicles and vampire related books.

Cain and his descendants seem like the perfect people to be vampires or what eveloved into vampires. In the bible God exacted punishment on Cain after Cain killed his brother Abel.

Genesis 4:8
8. And Cain talked to Abel his brother and it came to pass when they were in the field, Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him.

The punishment that God chose was banishment from the land that he had known, he also cursed the land that Cain and his descendants would till. He also put a mark on Cain.

Genesis 4:15
15. And the Lord said unto him. Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him seven fold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

The same chapter goes on to say that Cain's descendants are also included in the promise made in the first part of verse 15, the only difference is that the vengeance multiplies by seven per descendant.

I don't think that Cain was the first Vampires but it could be debated that Cain's descendants evolved into Vampires. Supposedly in those days life expectancy was 8 times as is today. After a while maybe food couldn't sustain them. I am also guessing that it started off with animal blood.

Nothing comes to mind right away about the co relation between Cain and Vampires but as soon as I get some more info I'll sure to post it.

wow gryff and baked that is great research!!

I admit i am into my vampire legends and myths, they have always fascinated me.

I agree with the medical side of things but the psychological impact too of thinking you need blood to survive on daily. Having previous experience with someone with this type of Psychosis and syndrome i have to admit..there is something else at work.

Please tell me you are continuing this work? I would hate for you both not too, i am here to help if you need assistance.

Tempest