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Another Abortion Paradox

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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After the other thread I would like to throw my own version of an "Abortion Paradox" out to the crowd.

Many people who believe that abortion as murder assume that, if the fetus was not aborted, the soul within would go on to live a full and productive life.

This assumes that there is a taskmaster of sorts somewhere--commonly known as God, I suppose--that sets the course of everyone's life before they are born.

The "Paradox" I see is if there is a 'god' that is omnipresent enough to lay out a course for every body and soul conceived, then why is he limited in that he cannot see which pregnancies are going to go to term? The same thing could apply to natural miscarraiges, which the parents often see as imbued with a soul.

I am asking this because it seems like an oversight on God's part, if he exists in the Western context.

And please--do not flame ME--I am not supporting Abortion, just asking a philosophical question.




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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Maybe God does create the souls of all of us and put us on the path he imagines for us, but at least as far as abortion goes, even He can't over-rule one basic human trait:

Free Will

The women getting the abortions have a legal right to an abortion. It is their choice and decision. So, no matter what path God has chosen for the soul she is carrying, he cannot over-ride her free will to exercise her legal choice. She is in control of the "other soul".



[edit on 1/29/2009 by skeptic1]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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When you decide to open a can of worms, you go for the BIG can!

Free Will is the issue, and I can't imagine that it hasn't been discussed here on ATS ad nauseum.

God has given us Free Will (which is used to explain all the bad things people do which God didn't prevent, including abortion).
If God is all-knowing, all-seeing, etc. then he must know the future.
If God knows what will happen in the future then it must be "pre-determined."
If the future is pre-determined then how can we have Free Will?

You would think that God, knowing a pregnancy will be aborted, wouldn't put a soul there. So if God didn't put a soul there, the mother didn't kill a "human" because God, knowing that she was going to decide to abort (what free will??), didn't give it a soul. Or would God deliberately put a soul knowing that it would be terminated before birth just so that the mother would be guilty of murder since that's the decision he already knew she would make....

Think about it some more ... someone might enjoy watching your head explode.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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This is of course my personal belief, I have no way of proving it, but then again no one can really show proof for spiritual beliefs.

I believe that the spirit that inhabits the body is unique and individual. We wear our "earth suits" during life here in the physical realm. My belief on abortion, miscarriage and even still birth is this: The spirit that was to inhabit that particular body will have another opportunity to gain a body and live an earth life. If we go on the premise that the Creator knows the end from the beginning then all is well.

It is a matter of personal choice and can be difficult. It is a decision that breaks the heart of many women though they know it is the best choice. It is just too bad that there is no reliable birth control that is 100% beside tubal ligation or vasectomy.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Great question, but there is no paradox. There is no oversight in God's plan.

One major feature of God's "architecture" for mankind is the free will of man. Man is given the ability to freely make choices. However choices have consequences. In the case of an aborted baby the performer of the abortion, those who aided him/her, and the one who decided to have the abort will be held accountable for their choice to end a life whose origin was orchestrated by God.

Consider a real world example. We all know seat belts save lives. The automakers put them there because the govt mandates it. Now if someone is killed in an accident b/c they weren't wearing a seat belt should the govt be held accountable? No, they mandated automakers to install them. Should the automaker be held accountable? No, they put them in the car. It's the person who chose not to apply who is responsible.

Another example: God has put physical laws into place such as gravity. What goes up must come down. Now if a person was to throw themself off a 100 story building who is held accountable? Certainly God never intended that to occur, but He is not about to reverse the law of gravity, a law he's revealed to every creature, to supersede the suicidal person's will. However, the person's action will have consequence: death or serious injury. Not God's fault.

To your point whether God shouldn't have bothered creating the soul of an aborted baby in the first place: Given our real world example, should the govt get rid of the mandate if they knew that 99% of people would not use seat belts? Of course not. Seat belts are there for our protection.

I'm sorry I replied anonymously. I do not have an ATS account. I'm going to have to get one someday.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Uhhh, I'm sure it was already said...but you are forgetting about a little thing we call " Free Will ". There is no paradox here. We are responsible for our own actions. God is not an almighty "babysitter". He has better things to do. Build galaxies, pass judgments, hang out with Kurt Cobain etc.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


Food for thought for sure....

I purpose another possibility....

There are many people born without souls. Empty bags of flesh that God wanted aborted but man in his ineptitude was asleep on the job.

I don't believe this.... Just thinking outloud.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Heike

Think about it some more ... someone might enjoy watching your head explode.


And are you one of them?

SOrry but I won't give you that satisfaction.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by Heike
 


Food for thought for sure....

I purpose another possibility....

There are many people born without souls. Empty bags of flesh that God wanted aborted but man in his ineptitude was asleep on the job.

I don't believe this.... Just thinking outloud.



I've wondered about soulless people too. Also I've wondered if some people an kill their own soul... like the drug-users, the psychopaths, those truly materialistic people.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2
After the other thread I would like to throw my own version of an "Abortion Paradox" out to the crowd.

Many people who believe that abortion as murder assume that, if the fetus was not aborted, the soul within would go on to live a full and productive life.

This assumes that there is a taskmaster of sorts somewhere--commonly known as God, I suppose--that sets the course of everyone's life before they are born.

The "Paradox" I see is if there is a 'god' that is omnipresent enough to lay out a course for every body and soul conceived, then why is he limited in that he cannot see which pregnancies are going to go to term? The same thing could apply to natural miscarraiges, which the parents often see as imbued with a soul.

I am asking this because it seems like an oversight on God's part, if he exists in the Western context.

And please--do not flame ME--I am not supporting Abortion, just asking a philosophical question.


A- my issue with abortion has nothing to do with whether the soul of the child would have gone on to lead a full and productive life. My problem is that abortion is the taking of a human life, albeit at a very early stage of life.

B- God gave man free will. He wasn't looking for robots, that had no choices to make.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Heike
God has given us Free Will (which is used to explain all the bad things people do which God didn't prevent, including abortion).
If God is all-knowing, all-seeing, etc. then he must know the future.
If God knows what will happen in the future then it must be "pre-determined."
If the future is pre-determined then how can we have Free Will?


Ahh, the old free will argument. I attended a religious college and this very paradox occured to me while in one of my religious theory classes. I had no idea at that point that this was a well known and thoroughly argued paradox. For me, it shook my Christian beliefs to the point that I now consider myself a deist.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by BlueTriangle]





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