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Staying Alive - The Personal Identity Game

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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well, dang it!


Staying Alive

Sorry! You're dead!

You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: Let the virus do its worst!
Round 3: Let my body die!

Here's the problem. There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your problem is that your set of choices ends at least two types of continuity. By taking the teletransporter you end bodily continuity, since the body on Mars is a replica of yours, not the self same body. The virus destroys psychological continuity.

Perhaps you were willing to sacrifice these continuities because all along you thought that it was the soul that counted? If so, there is still a puzzle. How could teletransportation or replacing your organic body with synthetic parts ensure that your soul continues to exist? After all, the teletransporter transmits information about body states. Why would the soul follow this information? Given the lack of reasons to suppose a soul would do this, you have been pronounced dead. (Although technically speaking you haven't so much died as lost track of where your soul has gone!) However, it is conceded that the autopsy is not absolutely conclusive!




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Interesting quiz starred and flagged.

My results were as follows:


Staying Alive

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

However, although you have survived, at least one of your choices seems a little problematic.

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are just about consistent with the view that the continuity of the soul is essential for personal survival. Your first choice showed a desire to keep your physical body alive. Your second choice, in contrast, showed a willingness to have your body replaced by synthetic parts to preserve your psychological continuity. Your last choice showed a willingness to jettison your physical body and end psychological continuity in order to save your soul.

There is something troubling about these choices. First, the tracking of the soul seems a bit erratic. In the first choice, it followed the physical body, but on the second it followed psychological continuity. So it seems there is no reliable way of deciding where the soul goes - does it follow the body or psychological continuity? Secondly, the soul seems rather an empty self. It is a self that needs no thoughts, beliefs or memories to exist. It is rather a kind of immaterial home for thoughts, emotions, beliefs and so on. Do you really think the self is such a thing?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How have you done compared to other people?

24763 out of 165648 people chose the same path through the scenarios as you. To date, 99924 people have followed a path through these scenarios which is consistent with at least one of the three theories of personal identity specified above, compared to 65724 people who have not.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!

However, although you have survived, you seem to have taken an unnecessary risk.

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are consistent with the theory known as psychological reductionism. On this view, all that is required for the continued existence of the self is psychological continuity. Your three choices show that this is what you see as central to your sense of self, not any attachment to a particular substance, be it your body, brain or soul.

But there is a tension. In allowing your brain and body to be replaced by synthetic parts, you seemed to be accepting that psychological continuity is what matters, not bodily continuity. But if this is the case, why did you risk the space ship instead of taking the teletransporter? You ended up allowing your body to be replaced anyway, so why did you decide to risk everything on the spaceship instead of just giving up your original body there and then?

I always need that extra long ride to psych myself out whenever I am pulled out of my life for some "important mission". Meditation time beforehand helps me reprogram my ego and center myself. If my intuition before getting on the spaceship would tell me - wo, I would delay the flight somehow.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Sorry! You're dead!

You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

Here's the problem. There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your first two choices were consistent with the view that psychological continuity is necessary for survival. In Round 1, you decided to have your body zapped and rebuilt from scratch, and in Round 2 you decided to have your brain replaced by synthetic parts. Both these choices give you psychological continuity. But your last choice sees the end to your psychological continuity, since the continued existence of the soul does not provide it. So you first ended bodily continuity and then you ended psychological continuity.

Perhaps you made these choices because all along you thought that the continuity of the soul is what counts? If so, there is still a puzzle. How could teletransportation or replacing your organic body with synthetic parts ensure that your soul continues to exist? After all, the teletransporter transmits information about body states. Why would the soul follow this information? Given the lack of reasons to suppose a soul would do this, you have been pronounced dead. (Although technically speaking you haven't so much died as lost track of where your soul has gone!) However, it is conceded that the autopsy is not absolutely conclusive!


I had a really hard time with these questions, but I'll try and explain my reasoning:

The big thing is that I don't see why my "soul" wouldn't follow along in the transporter or the part-replacement process.

I don't think of my "soul" (if it exists) or my "self" as space-determined. I think of it more as a state of being – so if it exists, it exists any time the exact pattern of atoms and ideas that make up me exist.

That got me through the transportation and the part-replacement. But then they explicitly state that the freezing process will destroy the soul, and that reincarnation exists. Since both of these concepts are counter to what I believe, I had no idea what to say for the last question.

I decided that if they said that freezing would destroy the soul, and that reincarnation would preserve the soul, I'd have to go with reincarnation.

Maybe my "self" is the manifestation of my experience in my body, but I don't think it's either my body alone or my experience alone. Either choice seems to me to guarantee the end of me-ness.

This would not be the case if they didn't explicitly state that freezing would destroy the soul (which I'm taking to be the thing that unifies body and mind, more or less). Then, freezing would be the way to go to preserve the self, but I'd still pick dying, because I don't think that I'm supposed to (or have to, thank goodness) live on in this body forever.

__________________________

Since it might be kind of interesting to keep track of, I'm editing in the bit about how many people have picked the same path:


How have you done compared to other people?

31251 out of 165672 people chose the same path through the scenarios as you. To date, 99939 people have followed a path through these scenarios which is consistent with at least one of the three theories of personal identity specified above, compared to 65733 people who have not.


[edit on 1/29/09 by americandingbat]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 




The big thing is that I don't see why my "soul" wouldn't follow along in the transporter or the part-replacement process. I don't think of my "soul" (if it exists) or my "self" as space-determined. I think of it more as a state of being – so if it exists, it exists any time the exact pattern of atoms and ideas that make up me exist.


Here's one small problem as I have brought up in one of my posts.

What happens if there is a teletransporter malfunction? You are still here on Earth but there is a duplicate of you on Mars.

Will your "you" still be on Earth or on Mars or both? Here where it gets a bit funky: will you be conscious of both bodies?

This is a reality that may soon be possible as detailed in another thread.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


I've been looking for it but was unable to find it. The movie Unbreakable with Bruce Willis used to have an online psychological test but it must have been taken down. It was very similar to this and asked about 10 questions placing the person taking the test in various scenarios to analyze your reactions. It was really fascinating but I cannot find it.

Essentially, you were placed into different scenarios like your quiz to figure out how you long you would survive or how soon you would die. It wasn't just a physical survival quiz, though. It had a psychological significance to each question.

I'll keep looking for it but so far nothing is coming up.

[edit on 1/29/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


It's an interesting question.

I think there would be two mes in that case.

But I would cease to be identical to myself after a nanosecond or so as the different environments interacted with the originally-identical mes.

Still, they would both be me.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Thanks.

The movie can be seen here at www.watch-movies.net...

That's one of a few good movies, one of those movies that cover this very topic.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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So I lost my soul

I just wanted to add that my soul is what got me into this "mission" in the first place and it has gotten me into many many experiences that were difficult. If my spirit quided me through this, with the cost of the loss of my soul, mayby that is not such a bad thing, loss of soul memory - moving on to higher spheres.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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As usual, I didn't answer the OP as was asked.
But after watching Mars Attacks
I have my doubts about who and what technology I should trust.

As having recalled being an abductee or similar, I've had OOBE and as-if have been in someones else's body. I've also been pushed out of my body a couple of times and helplessly watched as two other spirits used them for our viewing displeasure.

If this world was going to be destroyed and I was already familar with this technology in trials, I would likely do what was the least painful. Transfering a person's conciousness etc. to another planet, needn't mean turning their physical body to dust like......War of The Worlds and flying clothes.


I would also like to choose the new body I'll have and possibly even gender as well.

The time frame seems to be important if this was due to some major threat.

This twisted and confusing type of rapture we're discussing should be well known, otherwise many would refuse. Imagine an alleged world threat by some asteroid and millions of people do this and then the so-called asteroid never even strikes.

But seriously, there are easier ways to depopulate a planet anyway. This notion is as-if a harvest of souls and has me in doubt of the real agenda.

Makes me think of scientology and John Lears possible statements of soul harvesting.

"Yes, it is like crematorium and yes, you are still alive when it's turned on but.......it happens just as fast as turing off a light switch"


May as well be disguised as a fun house and or entrance to a casino.

It reminds me of someone I've heard say: "It's your turn in the box." I said 'Box" not "Barrel"


I guess with my paranoia; I refuse to take part in this game as if ominous choice.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by aleon1018]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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It seems that they are actually meaning keeping your soul alive, so it doesn't really matter if you take the teletransporter or the spaceship since your soul survives either way. It doesn't really matter if you let the virus change your mind or use the silicon implant, since it doesn't change your soul (according to them). The only thing that could possibly kill "you" (meaning your soul according to them) is deep freezing your dead body for longer than 1 week. Also according to them your soul has no memories after reincarnation, so I would rather take the chance of soul death then choose certain soul "restart", but the point was to stay alive so I chose to restart.
I personally think they don't know very much about our souls.
my results:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Personally, I look at it this way, if the ets want to take me safely off planet, whole and complete to bring me somewhere safe, atmosphere and gravity wise, to be, they will do this. Otherwise I'll pass, the game seems a bit strange, although some report that ets drop their bodies like suits. Sleeper's Milton does this a lot. Considering that all of our memories are stored by our Creator, or in the hall of records, and in our minds which is a part of our souls, it hardly matters on body, providing the other one is soulless.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by aleon1018
 


Being able to chose the new body would certainly be a plus.
The thing is, in a real situation where ets transported people, I'm not sure we'd be getting choices in the method. They never let people choose things, nor can you refuse their hospitality. I can hardly imagine them giving us options as to how they'd transport us.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 



John Lear had some information on bodies the aliens are as-if preparing for us and I don't think they have any sex organs either. Preys the lord?
It's an interesting topic but hardly a casual game to me anyway. For abductees, it's already been a fixed game. Sorry OP



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Thanks for putting this together Deaf Alien


Personally speaking , resisting the urge to wonder "whats the catch" or speculate on what could go wrong was very difficult , despite being asked to take the questions at face value.




Staying Alive
Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!
You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!

Your choices are consistent with the theory known as psychological reductionism. On this view, all that is required for the continued existence of the self is psychological continuity. Your three choices show that this is what you see as central to your sense of self, not any attachment to a particular substance, be it your body, brain or soul. However, some would say that you have not survived at all, but fallen foul of a terrible error. In the teletransporter case, for example, was it really you that travelled to Mars or is it more correct to say that a clone or copy of you was made on Mars, while you were destroyed?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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heres mine ,

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

However, although you have survived, at least one of your choices seems a little problematic.

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are just about consistent with the view that the continuity of the soul is essential for personal survival. Your first choice showed a desire to keep your physical body alive. Your second choice, in contrast, showed a willingness to have your body replaced by synthetic parts to preserve your psychological continuity. Your last choice showed a willingness to jettison your physical body and end psychological continuity in order to save your soul.

There is something troubling about these choices. First, the tracking of the soul seems a bit erratic. In the first choice, it followed the physical body, but on the second it followed psychological continuity. So it seems there is no reliable way of deciding where the soul goes - does it follow the body or psychological continuity? Secondly, the soul seems rather an empty self. It is a self that needs no thoughts, beliefs or memories to exist. It is rather a kind of immaterial home for thoughts, emotions, beliefs and so on. Do you really think the self is such a thing?

my problem with this is why would the soul die if frozen, and how the hell do you freeze a soul? if it said your body might fail and there is only 30 percent chance that resucitation will work, i'd have chose that one, i still might die but i'll have a chance to live. but they threw that pesky little soul dying problem in there.

i wonder, do atheists believe in souls? anybody out there want to inform me?



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by M157yD4wn
i wonder, do atheists believe in souls? anybody out there want to inform me?


I don't technically count as an atheist, more of an agnostic, but I'd say it depends on the atheist.

I don't believe that we are nothing more than the physical state of our body at any given time, so I guess you could call that a soul.

But I also don't think the soul is eternal, insofar as I don't think that my soul will still be around after my body stops going. But it might exist outside of time as well as being incarnated in this body, which kind of would make it eternal.

Certainly some atheists just flat out don't believe in the soul – I used to be one. I believed that we really are just the sum total of the physical/chemical processes going on in our bodies.

Hope that helps some



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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Staying Alive

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are consistent with the theory known as psychological reductionism. On this view, all that is required for the continued existence of the self is psychological continuity. Your three choices show that this is what you see as central to your sense of self, not any attachment to a particular substance, be it your body, brain or soul. However, some would say that you have not survived at all, but fallen foul of a terrible error. In the teletransporter case, for example, was it really you that travelled to Mars or is it more correct to say that a clone or copy of you was made on Mars, while you were destroyed?



1. I read it the way it's told, it was to ensure "you" lived(how i read it) so i chose to be teleported, because it could 100% get you there.
2.Get silicon because the chances of survival are more then that of letting your body die, memories in your body are nothing your soul will show your past time.
3.Freeze(can't explain this)
This is mine



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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i like games!


2nd line.


memento rules!



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