Jimmy CARTER : "If no Palestine, Catastrophe for Israel"

www.newser.com...

Carter said the six-month cease-fire that he helped arrange between Hamas, which rules Gaza, and Israel, significantly reduced rocket attacks against the Jewish state after it took effect on June 19. But he said Israel "did not keep their part of the bargain" because it only allowed a fraction of the shipments of food, medicine and other supplies that it had promised would be able to enter Gaza under the deal. Carter confirmed that he and his Carter Center aide, American University Prof. Robert Pastor, met with the exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal, on Dec. 14 in the Syrian capital Damascus. Hamas proposed an indefinite extension of the six-month cease-fire with Israel in exchange for the free flow of supplies into Gaza, Carter said. That information was relayed to Israel by Carter's associates, he said, but Israel refused to allow more than 100 truckloads of supplies into Gaza daily _ 1/15th of the daily needs _ torpedoing the proposal. On Dec. 19, Hamas formally declared the end of the six-month truce with Israel, and rocket fire on Israel intensified. Israel launched an offensive on Dec. 27 aimed at stopping the rocket attacks

My commentary :

-1) The problem of 1 state Palestine or 2 states Palestine is well settled by J. Carter. What do YOU think of it ?

-2) It was usefull, from my point of vue, to recall the events occuring BEFORE the Hamas' rocketting which justified Israel's bombing of GAZA.

Carter hasn't figured out yet that he's irrelevant and viewed by many, many people as a complete whackadoo. He was a nice guy who was a lousy president. However, even people who were close to him say that he lies and fabricates in order to push his own very far left wing agenda.

Story here

Kenneth Stein, director of the Institute for the Study of Modern Israel, resigned Tuesday as Middle East Fellow of the Carter Center of Emory University, stating in his resignation letter that "President Carter's book on the Middle East, a title too inflammatory to even print, is not based on unvarnished analyses; it is replete with factual errors, copied materials not cited, superficialities, glaring omissions, and simply invented segments."

Huffington Post - Carter is a liar

Most people here knew that Israel didn't honor the cease fire agreements by starving the Palestinians. Obviously agreements don't need to be honored when you have bigger bombs. Funny word that... honor... something Israel is visibly lacking!

They deserve to be tried for crimes against humanity! Anything less is unacceptable!


IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Most people here knew that Israel didn't honor the cease fire agreements by starving the Palestinians.

1 - Both Israel AND the Palestinians violated the cease fire.

2 - The Palestinians aren't starving.

3 - EGYPT also closed their border. So why do you blame Israel for so-called 'starving' Palestinians?

Originally posted by orkson
-1) The problem of 1 state Palestine or 2 states Palestine is well settled by J. Carter. What do YOU think of it ?

I agree with Carter. There's no way a one-state solution would work when one of the parties has the power to control the the very life of other, whom they happen to hate. And I don't think the Arab world is going to put up with Israel's "bullying" for much longer. There is great danger for Israel brewing there. And a heavy hand against the Arab countries in the region (even by the US) is not going to be able to protect Israel from the Palestinian allies. There will be Israeli deaths in large numbers.

Picture the US and say, N. Korea sharing a land mass...

Jimmy Carter on Jon Stewart

I can't imagine why anyone would be pushing for a one-state solution. These things can't be forced. Haven't we learned that from the past between these two peoples?

First, many Arab nations have no problem with what Israel is doing as long as they get to blame everything on Israel and make Israel look bad. As I recalled, I didn't hear any Arab nation threaten to go to war with Israel over this. Egypt even helped them out by keeping its border closed.

Second, Jimmy Carter who? Somebody get this guy a peanut farm and keep busy on something he might be god at.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by InfaRedMan


3 - EGYPT also closed their border. So why do you blame Israel for so-called 'starving' Palestinians?

Egypt is a completely seperate country anyway, whereas gaza is inside israel, Funny i thought you might have realised that seeing as most schoolkids do.

Anyhow the main reason they shut the border is because they knew israel would probably bomb them too and werent up for getting involved.

Originally posted by jam321
First, many Arab nations have no problem with what Israel is doing as long as they get to blame everything on Israel and make Israel look bad.

No one needs to make Israel look bad in the Palestinian conflict. They do a really good job of it themselves.

I suggest you look at facts in a linear fashion.

The starvation came first during a so called treaty where Israel never kept their side of the bargain, thus making the treaty a farce. Palestine refused to renew the farcical treaty with an honorless Israel and understandably hurled some oversize firecrackers their way.

Israel cries victim (how novel) and repunishes Palestine for not enjoying being duped and not accepting the obvious inequity... and boy, did they repunish them... with a US taxpayer funded war machine.

What part of that don't you understand. Take your blinkers off man! Israel are the bullies on the block and are systematically destroying Palestine bit by bit, bomb by bomb, innocent life by innocent life, child by child.

No matter what sad and tired excuses you throw my way, I will refuse to see it any differently so save your energy in responding.

IRM

Originally posted by cropmuncher
Egypt is a completely seperate country anyway, whereas gaza is inside israel, Funny i thought you might have realised that seeing as most schoolkids do.

Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Funny, I hought you might have realized that seeing as most schoolkids do.

No one can point at Israel and say that they are 'starving' those in the Gaza unless you also point a finger at Egypt who closed it's border with Gaza as well. (and there are no 'starving' people in the Gaza.)

Your attempt at insult was pathetic. Look at a map already.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No one can point at Israel and say that they are 'starving' those in the Gaza unless you also point a finger at Egypt who closed it's border with Gaza as well. (and there are no 'starving' people in the Gaza.)

Egypt bow to the pressures of the west because

a) They don't want trouble and capitulate under pressure
b) They rely solely on tourist dollars from the west

To say there were no starving people in Gaza is like saying there was no holocaust in Germany against the Jews. Complete dribble FlyersFan! I've never heard such overtly transparent propaganda in my life!

*shakes head*

IRM

[edit on 30/1/09 by InfaRedMan]

The UN mandate which created Israel left 48% o the land for Palestinians. Israel has stolen and Illegally occupied all but 12%.

The terms of the ceasefire were that Israel would end the economic blockade and open the borders for commerce. It failed to do so. Hamas was fighting to lift the blockade and that any agreement to end the rocket attacks was voluntary because Israel failed to honor their commitment. In point of fact, it was Israel who broke the ceasefire on November 4 by firing first. This was reported widely on international media outlets and fact checked by CNN The Damage to Gaza done by Israel is estimated to require roughly US$2 Billion to repair. A meeting in March will be held in Egypt to coordinate funding and organization of the rebuild.

Under the rules of the Geneva Conventions, Israel as the occupying force, is obligated to provide for the needs of the Occupied refuges, Food, water, shelter etc. The UN agrees that Israel is failing to meet it's obligations. Only a small portion of the supplies are getting to the Palestinian refugees. The Blockade continues despite the violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Israel still controls every person, every good, literally every drop of water to enter or leave the Gaza Strip. This is confirmed by the international group Human Rights Watch. The Oslo Accord gave Israel the right to control the Gaza/Egypt border and official documents such as passports, I.D. cards, export and import papers, and many others have to be approved by the Israeli army. Israel approves all immigration to and emigration from, as well as entry by foreigners, imports and exports, and collection and reimbursement of value-added tax always via Israel. Nice that Israel taxes the refugees. It is this total border control by Israel that prevented foreign journalists from reporting from Gaza during the conflict. Israel does not want anyone to see what they are doing. We all know about the Illegal use of white phosphorus bombs and the UN has since collected evidence of further international violations such as the illegal use of cluster bombs and Flechett bombs.

Some world leaders have compared Gaza to a concentration camp. Others have compared it to the Warsaw Ghettos of Nazi Germany, where the Jews fought in tunnels for freedom from oppression, much like Hamas does in Gaza. Palestinians are forced to live in a system of Apartheid, just like the one that was abolished as racist in South Africa.

As for Jimmy Carter... Whether or not you like the former President and Nobel Peace Price recipient, his words have meaning even if Zionists don't like them.

"Peace will come when Israel grants to Palestine only that which Israel demands for itself; a right to exist and a nation of their own.
60 years of misery and death have resulted from Israel's basic hypocrisy of demanding recognition while refusing to give it."

Again, the UN mandate that created Israel, left 48% of the land for Palestinians. It is time to end the hypocrisy and return that land so a Palestinian state can be created. International law requires Israel to end the illegal occupation.

reply to post by Terapin


I must say, that is a superlative post Terapin! It's hard to argue with the facts and the more they do, the stupider they look.

IRM

reply to post by Terapin

The UN mandate which created Israel left 48% o the land for Palestinians. Israel has stolen and Illegally occupied all but 12%

Once again you ignore that Arab side refused to accept the UN plan, not Jewish one. And war was declared by Arab side in 1948. So "stealing" is very pathetic description of result of a war. By the way - until this day there are countries/groups that do not recognize Israel's right to exist in any form - 1948 borders or 2009.

Israel does NOT occupy Gaza for years already. I do not understand why you would like Israel to go into Gaza again and capture it. And as for border control - as long as there is a terror trying to go out from Gaza there can be no open border. Government of Gaza openly engaged in hostilities against state of Israel. What reason is there to open the borders? By the way - the same borders were much more open when no rockets were launched.
And borders - as i explained to you in another thread - are not what interfering with peace agreement and creation of independent Palestinian state. Real issues are status of Jerusalem and refugees question.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
To say there were no starving people in Gaza is like saying there was no holocaust in Germany against the Jews.

Oh the drama! too bad you are WRONG. There are no starving people in the Gaza. None. Show me a dead person who starved to death. Go ahead. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

Complete dribble FlyersFan! I've never heard such overtly transparent propaganda in my life!

The only overtly transparent propaganda (and DENIAL) is that which flows from the pro-palestinian crowd on this thread.

*shakes head*

*shakes head* right back atchya. And I'll even roll my eyes. :shk:

Originally posted by Terapin
it was Israel who broke the ceasefire on November 4

BOTH sides broke the ceasefire.

The UN agrees

The UN is a corrupt cesspool.

The Blockade continues despite the violation of the Geneva Conventions.

- Considering all the very expensive arms and ammo that the 'Palestinians' are using, it is obvious that their supplies are getting through just fine. Through those ILLEGAL arms smuggling tunnels no doubt.

Israel still controls every person, every good, literally every drop of water to enter or leave the Gaza Strip.

You forgot about the EGYPTIAN border with Gaza.

Some world leaders have compared Gaza to a concentration camp. Others have compared it to the Warsaw Ghettos of Nazi Germany,

Only the ignorant ones

As for Jimmy Carter... Whether or not you like the former President and Nobel Peace Price recipient,

So what? So was that Egyptian pedophile child rapist of little boys - Yasser Arafat.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
It's hard to argue with the facts and the more they do, the stupider they look.

Yes, those who are ignoring the facts sure do look 'stupider' ...


[edit on 1/30/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by FlyersFan


The facts would disagree with you. Israel was the one who shot first and broke the ceasefire. This was widely reported on all the major news outlets. You also ignore the fact that Israel had failed to uphold it's side of the ceasefire which thus invalidates any claims against Hamas activity. In accordance with the terms of the ceasefire, Hamas had agreed to end it's rocket fire, and Israel agrees that they indeed did. Israel agreed to end the economic embargo and to open the border, which everyone, even Israel, agrees that they failed to live up to. Israel used an excuse when they violated the ceasefire agreement, as they always do. The undeniable fact is, Israel killed first no matter what kind of spin they try to put on it.

As for the Egyptian border. I pointed to the Oslo Accord which gave Israel the right to control who goes in and out. This includes the Gaza/Egyptian border. Read the data.

You talk about Hamas having hi-tec weapons in Gaza??? They have very rudimentary homemade rockets, while Israel has modern multimillion dollar fighter bombers. All of the rockets that Hamas has ever launched in their entire history has caused less damage than Israel has inflicted in one week. What is so hi-tec about that??? Making wild exaggerations only serves to weaken your stance.

The UN has the support of every major nation when it comes the the numerous resolutions they have passed. You can call the UN meaningless, but it doesn't make it so just because you say it. Who agreed to the UN resolutions? Palestinian Arabs, the rest of the Arab bloc, the UK, the EU, the USA, every signing Member Nation of the UN General Counsel and the UN Security Counsel, the International Court of Justice, and even the Israeli Supreme Court. Perhaps you should do some reading on the UN resolutions and the large number of nations who support them before making inaccurate statements. Your claim of UN being meaningless is even more perplexing when one considers that it was the UN plan in 1947 that established Israel in the first place. By your logic of the UN being meaningless, that would make Israel non existent???

You can also call people silly names and spread Zionist propaganda, but it doesn't change the facts nor does it help your position. I am neither anti Israel nor one sided pro Palestinian. I do indeed agree that Israel has a right to exist. I agree that Hamas has not been as peaceful as they could have been. What I do believe is that Israel must end Apartheid, which is racist, and that Palestine must be allowed to form their own sovereign nation on the land that is rightfully, and legally theirs. You don't even have to go by the initial borders, go by roughly the '67 border more or less, and start from there.

It is very common for racist Zionists to blame the oppressed. It doesn't change the facts.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I used the term "stealing" in relation to the illegal settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory. The very fact that they are internationally recognized as illegal, makes it stealing land. I hope that clarifies things.

I was not referring to the land created for Israel under the United Nations Partition plan. While some may not recognize the right for Israel to exist, I do. I agree that Israel has the right to exist.

I simply do not agree with Israels attempt to deny a Palestinian, state and their continued occupying of illegal settlements.

I also agree that the refugee situation is quite troublesome. Israel has created the longest lasting refugee camps in history. People need decent homes of their own, and good jobs, free from oppression.

I personally believe that Jerusalem should remain a separate area under UN control due to its religious significance for a number of religions. Giving Jerusalem to any one group is only asking for trouble. It is better off as a world city in my opinion.

[edit on 30/1/09 by Terapin]

There has been quite a bit of disinformation about who broke the ceasefire. Perhaps we should look to see what the Israeli response is. Some of you may not have seen this. Watch and listen to what Mark Regev, the Official Israeli spokesman states:


I do not need to invent the facts. There were no Hamas rockets fired during the ceasefire and Israel admits it. As for the tunnel. Israel make a claim that it was to be used to kidnap IDF forces. There is no offered evidence to support this claim, and Israel has a long history of making excuses for it's violence. It could be true, but it doesn't change the fact that Israel is trigger happy.

[edit on 30/1/09 by Terapin]