you will not be alone

Originally posted by pieman
what always amazes me is that there are so many "survivalists" who believe that everyone is one short hop away from being a psychopath!!!

the best strategy for human survival is to band together peacefully and to trade/interact in as ordered a manner as possible, it is constantly the method of living humans choose.

Under normal circumstances it is just a few ppl that are close to
being a psychopath. Under extreme circumstance the game changes.

During xmas we had ppl try to crush to death a pregnant woman at
a walmart to get in for the walmart xmas specials, a man intervened
and his life was the one extinguished.

We have had a man kill his entire family and himself cause he just
lost his job.

We have had ppl kill their entire family including kids because
the woman shagged another man.

So keep in mind if this ppl will kill their own children, what will they
do to you.

If there is no food and ppl are on the verge of starving to death,
they will try to steal other ppls food, simple survival.

They may not try to directly kill you, but if you try to stop them
all bets are off.

There are good ppl that are moral that will not do these things, they
even may be the majority of ppl, but that still leaves possibly
millions that will do some things they wouldn't normally do.

Optimists like to think 100% of the population is nice and kind.

I assure you there is at least a fair percentage that is not.

Law and Order exists only due to the criminal justice system.

Without it anarchy like the old west would return.

You see... the city's are looked upon as being useless in the six X scenarios.. Assume there are no mad max style roving bands of loonies. Every rooftop could be cultivated and used to catch water , turbines could be erected. Hell you could raise some goats and chickens if your rooftop area was big enough, parks could be made into bio intensive mico farms. There is alot that could be done with the concrete jungles, too many of you have been duped into thinking its hopless..

reply to post by Northern Raider

I prefer the proven concept of mutual support agreements between individual and groups of survivalists and homesteaders, rather than get into the inevitable disaster that comes from socialist and cooperative based communes.

I agree.
I hope my post didn’t sound like I was waving the banner of socialist based communes.
It’s been proven far too many times throughout even modern history it’s not at all the way to go.
Treaties between homesteaders sounds like bliss in the post apocalyptic world.
Problem is right now it’s just near impossible to know what’s right given we don’t know the circumstances of the said apocalypse.

I still tend to think biochemical - that is until I read Mystiq’s post.
Not that I’m wishy-washy, just I hadn’t heard of the nukes being set off in December (how did THAT get by me).
Off to the ATS drawing board so to speak - keyword search - nukes and/or December.

Thanks

Peace

Originally posted by DataWraith
It'll be like that here in the UK, total Chaos. Everyone heading for the burbs..

No Squirrel, seagull or pigeon is safe, as we have no real wildlife / deer or any 'meaty' animals anymore. ( might need to invest in air rifle to 'catch' them though.
.

I'm not sure if you are aware but the Forestry commission is looking at culling dear as their numbers have swelled to an unsustainable level.
I agree that given a major sitx that there numbers would fall greatly but just to let you know.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by colec156]

Oh even if they weren't going to cull the local deer , I'm sure that Richmond park down the road from me would definatley see a 'substantial' decline in their numbers in a Sitx event , as hungry people would descend on them like a ravenous horde , intent on feeding their faces full of venison, They're bellies would be full to bursting with succulent deer meat, the juices running down the corners of their mouths , Ooop getting carried away..


I'd probably just have to make do with scrawny squirrel...

Mind you I had an idea, if there WAS a massive Sitx event and I was alive after it I would have to go and free the local zoo animals, and let them try and get a population explosion going.
I'm sure that people in a Sitx event ,would see the cattle and deer farms and parks as a packaged meal as most of the farms and parks have 'cattle' crossing barriers, I.e. they're slits in the road and the animlas know not to cross them.

We are plagued by bambies up here, the dozt creatures are always running out in front of cars and becoming roadkill venison, Munjucs mainly buth the others are nearly as plentiful.

Originally posted by DataWraith
YUMYUM, bend over and get ready to recieve some sage and onion stuffing .....

J/K.

I wouldn't resort to cannablism ( unless she was very cute) no matter how hungry I was. I'd have to get a book on dangerous flora and fauna I'm not allowed to eat. Otherwise I'd probably get the JappyCr*ppies...

There's very little 'open' country here in the UK anyway, and considering the amount of people there are and how many towns and villages are scattered around the 'countryside' we'd most likely meet in the middle anyway.
Think the best course of action for the UK is to vacat the larger cities to the country but those on the outer lting areas should stay put and try and ride it out.

We're already stocking up in our house ( 6th floor flat) and I'm getting the garage ( in its own seperate block) insulated incase theres a problem with the apartment. Generators are a big plus as wellas a small supply of petrol..
Sad , I'm even looking at a bug out bag and solar panels for whatever devices I need....

Nothing is going to happen ( *crosses fingers , looks to the heavens) but better safe than sorry.( Hmm just had an idea seeing as the bailout bandits are handing their properties to 'loved' ones, maybe I should sign over the garage to my Bro, he's not on the mortgage paperwork) that way we'll have somewhere to go

). ( even though WE haven't paid for it either yet )

Hi Friend, there is nothing sad about what you are doing. We are all like minded people here ( well most of us anyway ).

I have a whole list of items I feel I still need to acquire, this also includes a solar power charger and lighting.
I have a few plans laid down and they both include bugging in as well as bugging out.

colec

Originally posted by username371

Originally posted by DataWraith

I wouldn't resort to cannablism ( unless she was very cute)

Cannibalism is an extremely risky way to get your food, because it recycles pathogens, mutagens, and other bad stuff like prions.


Mad cow disease was essentially caused because farmers were feeding cows... COWS!


Not good.

Nope sorry your wrong mate, It was feeding cows with sheep parts.
sheep had a disease called scrapy that humans were immune to.
Sheep remains were fed to cattle and the scrapy disease affected them in a different way leading to BSE. Sorry now back on topic.

Two cows standing in a field.

One says to the other, "You know, this BSE thing doesn't bother me at all."

"No?", replies the other, "Why's that then?"

"I'm a fish!"

Originally posted by Northern Raider
We are plagued by bambies up here, the dozt creatures are always running out in front of cars and becoming roadkill venison, Munjucs mainly buth the others are nearly as plentiful.

Is it currently (in U.K.), i.e. pre-SitX, illegal to pick up road-kill you struck but not if you are following?

The best way I found for avoiding deer which seemed to want to run alongside me (possibly through panic) was to just ease of the throttle. As soon as you slow that's their cue for shooting in front of you (all they wanted was to cross the road).

That way an on-coming car will strike it thus allowing you to retrieve it without recrimination from the law.

Lots of intelligent discussion here.

As people have wisely pointed out. It's not going to be the Rambo types that ultimately survive any potential sit-x.
Co-operation is the way forward. However, people do have an ugly side, and I would like to be able to defend myself. Northern-Raider's
"Grey-man" archetype is probably the most balanced view here.

How would I put it? Gandhi with a Gun.

I think the biggest asset in a possible sit-x is the strength of character to sit out the initial chaos, and let the masculine crazies wear themselves out.
On ATS we are by and large mentally prepared for possible Sit-X's. Level-headedness and forbearance will be very valuable in the future.

Data Wraith: LOL- I meant sprouted wheatgrass etc. I used to live in Surrey, hope things are OK there mate.
Mystiq: You would have to let 20 per cent grow to maturity to recyle.
Tayesin: Spirulina is a great food. Yup, it tastes horrible. Wheatgrass is good as well. Hemp even better. I hate to sound like a broken record but I seriously advise people to look at the diet I posted above. Its nutritional value is off the charts.
Retikx: Agree: A smallish city may not be so bad. Micro-farming is good-stuff .
* * *
My diet is 90-95 per cent vegan. I only eat meat when I'm drunk. As a plant-eater it's kind of strange to me that so many people are thinking of shooting pigeons, trapping rats, whatever. The idea of groups of hungry city-folk scouring the land for animals and game, all the while walking over tons and tons of edible plants is a little tragicomic. 90 per cent of wild grasses are edible and extremely nutritious. Anne Wigmore cured herself from cancer by eating grass. Knowledge about what plants are edible and which are poisonous may well save your life one day. A litre of H202 to be used as a disinfectant may well be a valuable addition to any survival kit.
www.wildwoodsurvival.com...

So we have to strike a balance between lone-wolf Rambo types and too trusting/vulnerable. What would you do if you fed a couple of hungry people who came to your door and then twenty came? I believe the way forward is the ability to lead, and give *information* that will help people locate and prepare their own food. Imagine a photocopied data sheet with 1) Lists and photos of edible plants. 2) How to prepare them 3) Other survival skills 4) General positive words about staying comminity minded. A couple of thousand of these would change your local community immeasurably.

Lastly, we have to remember that the future is dangerous but nothing is fixed in stone. We do have people helping us. Preparation is vital, but we cannot give up the peaceful raising of awareness while things stay relatively normal. This may forestall any of the worst plans.

Good luck, and visualise peace and safety. Imagine us chatting calmly Christmas 2009. Give thanks for what you have and enjoy the adventure.




[edit on 31-1-2009 by HiAliens]

Originally posted by pieman
what always amazes me is that there are so many "survivalists" who believe that everyone is one short hop away from being a psychopath!!!

the best strategy for human survival is to band together peacefully and to trade/interact in as ordered a manner as possible, it is constantly the method of living humans choose.

It is the only way. There will be marauders and you are going to have to decide how to deal with that. There will be malcontents and collaborators; again they will have to be dealt with.

Survival is the key but there are some prices I am not willing to pay.

You forget that the real survivalists, not just the normal people from the area, already know the best place for a BOL and probably own land in the middle of nowhere stocked with guns, ammo, food, water, and a safe house.

And they wont utter a word to anyone where it is. Or what it's stocked with.

While the normal pplz will be all "RUN FOR THA HILLZ!"

Originally posted by HiAliens
My diet is 90-95 per cent vegan. I only eat meat when I'm drunk.

Kebab is technically not meat, just as chicken is a vegetable.

Perhaps I've reduced myself to humour because I have little to add to this thread. I would hope that all will work itself out. I'm not hopeful though. There will always be people out to subjugate others, just as there will be those who will allow it.

Even if you remove yourself from the rest of "civilisation" they will eventually come after you. It's how people work, I don't like it either but there you are.

Originally posted by Nirgal

Originally posted by HiAliens
My diet is 90-95 per cent vegan. I only eat meat when I'm drunk.

....................... Even if you remove yourself from the rest of "civilisation" they will eventually come after you. It's how people work, I don't like it either but there you are.

Ask any poor innocent native.

If they don't kill you they will convert you.

If they can't convert you they will kill or enslave you anyway.