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How would YOU stimulate the economy?

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posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Revoke the bank charters of at least the 'Sacred Nine'...
i.e. every bank latching on to bailout $$$


re-invoke the Glass-Steagel act which kept community banks from morphing into 'Investment Banks'


Investment banks or their wannabe's are seperate & excluded from
bailouts or Fed-Reserve largesse.


Use the Sharia banking rules/laws as a model...

& the USA will return to a "Mayberry RFD" type of social order


hang-em-high, is my motto



Reform the rascals out-of-the-system and faith & confidence will return,
people willing to pay for credit & moral bankers willing to extend credit...
once again
the system is broken now, with kick-backs & such being the basis for approval of 'Loans' & 'credit worthiness'

[edit on 28-1-2009 by St Udio]




posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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To "fix" the economy that is in place, is like a thumbless man trying to hitch hike to to the moon without a space ship...


We are America...we the people....are what makes this country, and we need to come up with a different way of thinking in order to remain free...because otherwise we will always be in service as "slaves" with economical chains binding us to the government.

Go back to the barter system, deal only in precious metals which have any value, trade job for job....favor for favor....work together....

Money is worthless, it is only another form of "energy" that has demeaned society, rather than helped it.

In other words, if you are a doctor, architect, construction worker, etc...trade your services for the services of others....those that are chefs, cooks, can feed us, while the farmer grows the food and trades it for his need for a doctor...who in turn needs a house built and trades with the construction worker....etc.

Get creative people....there will always be a need for organization....but taxes and big government....I think not.

Start small and watch the tree grow...roots down....branches spread....until it is working on such a scale, the times we are in right now will be no more than an unpleasant memory.

Can't be any worse...you just may be surprised.



~Holly



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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wanna fix things.

Let it fail.

that's it.. that's how the system works.
cycles.. up down.. broken/fixed



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by pynner
wanna fix things.

Let it fail.

that's it.. that's how the system works.
cycles.. up down.. broken/fixed


LOL...and my solution would be the "fix"

good point!

~Holly



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Alright, thank you all for your replies thus far. So far, it would seem that the majority of the "solutions" revolve around one or more of the following;

1.) Further tax cuts.
2.) Promoting American industry
3.) Cutting government spending, domestic and international.
4.) Let the system fail and correct itself.
5.) Less government intervention/regulation.

I can understand the sentiments behind these solutions, but, in my opinion, they seem like a contradictory and unrealisic mix. For instance...

While I definately support the promotion of American industry and believe that it would be best, for Americans, if the jobs that have been outsourced in the past 30 years returned to American soil, this is not possible without heavy governmental intervention/regulation...this means bigger government, which in turn means that, probably, more taxes must be raised to pay for the regulators, unless those funds are removed from somewhere else...this policy, of course, runs in opposition to standard capitalistic dogma, because most modern free market capitalists would agree that the market must be allowed to operate in the most profitable manner.

Lowering taxes is always an attractive idea, and would continue to be so to most people until no tax was collected at all...but without the collection of taxes, the government, and therefor the military, police, fire, emergency services, education system, legislators, judiciary, transportation and energy systems etc., etc. would not be funded, and therefor not function; unless they were taken over by private industry, but in that case we'd be left at the mercy of industry, which, as we all know, is not a particuarly kindly, or trustworthy mistress.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Pull all US troops out of Middle East, bring them home, station them, along the Borders.
Deport all illegals,
Scrap the Federal Reserve, Create National Bank which issues money and belongs to the People.
Prosecute all War criminals, Fraudsters, and corrupt Politicians.
Confiscate all ill gotten gains.
Phase out income tax, starting at the lower end of the scale
Rebuild infrastructure, State by State, employ Americans.
Let failing Banks fail, no more bailouts.
Help retired people and create useful work programs for unemployed.
HELP EACH OTHER.

Finally, listen to, and take advice from Dr Ron Paul,

I feel sure these actions would put things right, as long as you restore The Constitution.

Good luck to you all,

Regards,

Horsegiver.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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I see lots of good ideas here.
I will add that legalizing Hemp would aid greatly, as it would produce numerous industries for its many products.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Hi, I've not registered yet, but follow ATS on twitter and like reading these posts.

I would like to advocate True Cost Economics to this discussion. It's an economic model that seeks to include the cost of negative externalities into the pricing of goods and services. Supporters of this type of economic system feel products and activities that direct or indirectly cause harmful consequences to living beings and/or the environment should be accordingly taxed to reflect the somewhat hidden costs.

This school of thought is on the rise as a result of the perceived need for ethical consideration in neoclassical economic theory. However, the cost of many goods and services that are currently affordable, and often taken for granted, could see an extreme rise in costs if their "true costs" are accounted for.

For example, if one accounted for air, noise and other types of pollution caused by the manufacturing and the use of a new car, then the price of the new car would, by estimates, raise by over $40,000.

Check it out further here:
www.adbusters.org...

Looking forward to joining more discussions in future.
(o)



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Everyone wants to let the system fail. You do realize that means every bank goes bust, every dollar in the bank is gone (unless you want FDIC to pick up the bill, which mean taxpayers). With no money and no credit, then will be no jobs, no food, no clean water, nothing. A collapse to the system, while it would give banks there just deserves, would mean unimaginable suffering for all people. That includes everyone; no matter how well off you may be in your current situation.

In crafting a solution we need to look at what got us here. In general you can blame the debt based money system. To solve this alone would mean changing the monetary system 100%, which would be great. However, in changing the system you have the same problems that we have today: People cannot repay their debts and without forgiveness, a new money system will not do them any good and will leave us in the same situation as we face now.

Basically if you want to revitalize the economy, you need to handle the personal debt situation. People can't spend money they don't have, banks can't lend to those who can't repay them. Those who can get credit these days do not need it. So we are caught in a classic catch-22. The only way out without sending us back to the 19th century, is to bail out either the banks or the people. I prefer a solution where you bail out the people. This will ultimately help the banks as well.

What I propose is to set up a government bank. This bank would buy all outstanding consumer debt at mark to model values. They would also become the first source for future consumer loans. Once they buy all the debt they turn around and make it affordable for the debt holder to repay their obligation. This may mean some debt forgiveness and lowering interest rates, whatever it takes.

I figure if done on this large scale basis, then they could buy all the debt for an average of 85-90 cents on the dollar. The banks and other lenders would then pretty much be made whole and they could pay back the previous bailout funds. At this point you ratchet down the reserve requirements etc and limit the kind of loans they can make in the future. I see a future where they concentrate on business loans and consumer deposits. You also keep them under close scrutiny so this does not reoccur. There would be some banks that would still fail despite this, so let them fail.

As for the consumer, all of a sudden they have room to breathe. I think to meet my mandate of debt affordability you would have to write down the loans to an average of 65-70%. This leaves a hole of about 20% which the government bank would recoup through future interest payments. The government bank would essentially be funded with 0-1% loans from the FED unless we come to our senses and let the government print their own money.

For example a homeowner has a $200,000 loan. Gov. bank would buy it for $180,000 and modify it to $140,000 with a 4% interest rate. Over a 30 year period the government would get paid back over $240,000 with interest, yielding a profit to the government of about $60,000. Meanwhile the payment for the homeowner drops to $750 per month from about $1125 per month. So the government wins, the consumers win and the banks give up these future profits for their past malfeasance. In return the banks, at least most of them, can continue operations as viable institutions, albeit in a more limited fashion.

Only obstacle in making this a profitable or break even endeavor for the government is the fact that people will want to move and some will still default on the lower payments. To solve this there would have to be some profit sharing agreement on resales, until the original principal is earned off. You would allow the consumer to keep enough to facilitate a move. For the foreclosures the government would take possession and then write the new mortgages which change the outcome to the government very little.

If you don't want the government bank to be ongoing, then at some point, you resell the mortgages/debt to the private market, thus recouping most of the money. You could also let the banks resume normal lending once all the debt has been bought by the government.

Only reason this will not work is people being stuck on principle, as it could be looked at as anti capitalist. However there is no solution, including letting the banks fail, which will not require massive investment from the government one way or the other. Given that, we might as fix it right and at the lowest long term cost to taxpayers. This proposal achieves this goal and will act as a permanent solution rather than band aids that everyone else proposes.

I would love to debate the points of my proposal, but only on an intellectual basis. I will not reply to generalized flames.

Thanks for reading and if you agree, pass it on. Feel free to change any particulars before you do.




[edit on 28-1-2009 by disgustedbyhumanity]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
To "fix" the economy that is in place, is like a thumbless man trying to hitch hike to to the moon without a space ship...


We are America...we the people....are what makes this country, and we need to come up with a different way of thinking in order to remain free...because otherwise we will always be in service as "slaves" with economical chains binding us to the government.

Go back to the barter system, deal only in precious metals which have any value, trade job for job....favor for favor....work together....

Money is worthless, it is only another form of "energy" that has demeaned society, rather than helped it.

In other words, if you are a doctor, architect, construction worker, etc...trade your services for the services of others....those that are chefs, cooks, can feed us, while the farmer grows the food and trades it for his need for a doctor...who in turn needs a house built and trades with the construction worker....etc.

Get creative people....there will always be a need for organization....but taxes and big government....I think not.

Start small and watch the tree grow...roots down....branches spread....until it is working on such a scale, the times we are in right now will be no more than an unpleasant memory.

Can't be any worse...you just may be surprised.



~Holly


I get where you are coming from, but you are not thinking it through. Money was originally created to ease the burden of bartering for goods and to make the process more efficient. it would be impossible for 300 million people to survive without at least some system of credit and debits.

For instance if you are a builder and you build someone a house, and that someone only grows apples, do you want to get paid entirely in apples? Before you could barter the apples away, they would go bad. Let's say you need surgery and the doctor hates apples and that's all you have. You would then have to find out what the doctor wanted and trade your apples for that. By having a standardized system of credits and balances yousolve the problems of bartering. That is all money really is.

As far as using precious metals for all transactions, there is not near the amount needed to do so with any effectiveness at all. Just like printing money causes inflation, every ounce of gold or silver mined after the transistion would also be infaltionary.

A better solution is to stick with money and only issue it when you have a corresponding increase of productivity. So basically we need to even out the money supply with the sum of all assets in the country. Go beyond that it will be inflationary. Stay below that and it will be deflationary.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
To "fix" the economy that is in place, is like a thumbless man trying to hitch hike to to the moon without a space ship...


We are America...we the people....are what makes this country, and we need to come up with a different way of thinking in order to remain free...because otherwise we will always be in service as "slaves" with economical chains binding us to the government.

Go back to the barter system, deal only in precious metals which have any value, trade job for job....favor for favor....work together....

Money is worthless, it is only another form of "energy" that has demeaned society, rather than helped it.

In other words, if you are a doctor, architect, construction worker, etc...trade your services for the services of others....those that are chefs, cooks, can feed us, while the farmer grows the food and trades it for his need for a doctor...who in turn needs a house built and trades with the construction worker....etc.

Get creative people....there will always be a need for organization....but taxes and big government....I think not.

Start small and watch the tree grow...roots down....branches spread....until it is working on such a scale, the times we are in right now will be no more than an unpleasant memory.

Can't be any worse...you just may be surprised.



~Holly


I get where you are coming from, but you are not thinking it through. Money was originally created to ease the burden of bartering for goods and to make the process more efficient. it would be impossible for 300 million people to survive without at least some system of credit and debits.

For instance if you are a builder and you build someone a house, and that someone only grows apples, do you want to get paid entirely in apples? Before you could barter the apples away, they would go bad. Let's say you need surgery and the doctor hates apples and that's all you have. You would then have to find out what the doctor wanted and trade your apples for that. By having a standardized system of credits and balances you solve the problems of bartering. That is all money really is.

As far as using precious metals for all transactions, there is not near the amount needed to do so with any effectiveness at all. Just like printing money causes inflation, every ounce of gold or silver mined after the transition would also be inflationary.

A better solution is to stick with money and only issue it when you have a corresponding increase of productivity. So basically we need to even out the money supply with the sum of all assets in the country. Go beyond that it will be inflationary. Stay below that and it will be deflationary.


You make some points...but my main point is Americans need to CHANGE their way of thinking. For example...so the doctor doesn't like apples....you can't get rid of the apples but you happen to have some gold chains lying around and he likes those....if one is creative, it works. Using script (which is all money would be) in exchange for services, would still not solve the problem...

The comfort level of the "haves" would even out with those of the "have not's"...and we just might start learning how to work with one another again, instead of creating what we did to get us to where we are now.

~Holly






[edit on 28-1-2009 by Holly N.R.A.]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.

You make some points...but my main point is Americans need to CHANGE their way of thinking. For example...so the doctor doesn't like apples....you can't get rid of the apples but you happen to have some gold chains lying around and he likes those....if one is creative, it works. Using script (which is all money would be) in exchange for services, would still not solve the problem...

The comfort level of the "haves" would even out with those of the "have not's"...and we just might start learning how to work with one another again, instead of creating what we did to get us to where we are now.

~Holly

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Holly N.R.A.]


I agree, but you'll always have the "haves" and "have nots"...no matter the monetary system in place....but that divide would certainly be much narrower with a currency backed by precious metals



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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How would I stiimulate the economy?

I would write a check to myself that is worth 2.3 Trillion Dollars.
(The same amount of money that Donald Rumsfeld said could not be accounted for on Septemer 10, 2001)

Then I think I would take me and my friends to Las Vegas and dump all of it there. Not only on Gambling, but on a lot of strippers too. (those strippers know how to shop. they would do a hell of a job stimulating the economy)

Then whatever money I have left would go to the 9-11 truth movement so they could launch a massive advertising campaign against the Powers That Be.


Economy fixed.


Oh and before I bring the all the troops across the globe back to America, I would have them stop by Israel on the way home.... we should teach some of those Israeli troops how to pick on someone their own size.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Stop spending on education. People think that schools in the US fails, but it's because of the minorities that skews the average scores down. Our education is fine the way it is already.

Stop the war, we will save billions monthly.

I agree with a 6 months tax holiday.

We don't need all the money going to law enforcement on intelligent agencies that don't do jack, but spy on the public.

The money should go to mass produce fuel efficient cars which we already freaking have that runs on water at a afordable price.

I like the one on finding ways to stop global warming.

Birth control funding is ok since the world is way overpopulated.

Raise the import taxes to stop the outsourcing, so the companies can return to the USA.

Reduce tax way way down.

Open Alaska for oil drilling temporaly until the hydrogen cars are mass produce. We have the largest oil reserve in the world.

Spend the money on free health care for everyone.

Get rid of the FDA, they don't do jack, but allow people to be taken advantage by the pharmaceutical companies.

Stop donating money to other countries when we are the ones bankrupt.

Screw the Banks let them crash. They'll just use the bail money to buy themselves fancy cars and homes.

Open a new organization that will do banking the right way, funded by the bail out money. Open them all over the country so people can be employed.


[edit on 28-1-2009 by amfirst]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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Never underestimate the power of a bubble bath, a nice bottle of wine and some feathers. Unless the economy weird, and likes whips and chains.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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There are a lot of excellent ideas here that Obama and the guys on the Hill should have listened to before passing this travesty they call a stimulation package. Most of it will not stimulate the economy. ie the STD education funding. I thought "ear mark pork" was illegal now. I like the ideas of no bail outs, no more international handouts (we give money to just about everybody in the world), no more outsourcing without severe tax implications. I think we need to put money into rebuilding our own infra-structure, reinvest in modernizing our steel industry like we did with Japan and Germany FOR them after WW2. We need to build our own merchant ships, and ice breakers and even cruise ships rather than let another country do it for us. We should invest in rail upgrades, both as mass transit and as freight carriers. We could use a portion of the bailout/stimulation faux cash to put our returning soldiers to work here in the states as medics, cops, border security, and anti-cyber warfare. The money should have been allocated to get into the hands of the people or businesses of this country, rather than going to a bunch of politicians pet projects. How is an STD awareness program going to get the economy going??



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:18 AM
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I would like to see the following changes made to western banking and financial systems.
First, it should be illegal to offer work , at a rate of hours or pay, which makes it impossible or overly hard to earn enough to own your own home. Not rent . OWN. Too many folks have rentals and mortgages. Mortgages should be abolished , and pay should be increased by all companies , and businesses. At the same time , governments need to stop taxing people unless they are rich. Poor folk (ie the ground level workers without which nothing would get done)have enough problems without having the government making it harder for them to exist with endless charges .
Banks should be government regulated and FIRMLY told what to do . If you are trading in a nation , you have a resposibility to it. These banks are massive, obscenely lucrative, and even when crashing are worth a kings ransom. They dont need government help , they need chaining to thier desks untill they fix thier mess, and they need to take pay cuts. Directors , board memebers , Managers, all need to take cuts in pay , and make every man and woman COMPLETELY equal. Damn anyone who says that sitting at a desk is worth as much as physical labour... damn them to the pits of hell . Big businesses need to accept that they are there for the benifit of the nation they exist in , and not thier own benifit.
If you are made redundant, then all tax, rent or mortgages outstanding must be ignored by the company or local government to whom that debt is owed. No man or woman should be forced from thier home over this. Never .
The real problem with western civilisation is that to own your home you either need a loan or a six figure a year minimum wage.
That is WRONG. A man of 18 should be able to work for less than half a decade and have enough by the age of 23(after living expenses) to BUY his home. Either pay needs to be increased or houses need thier prices capped by the government .
At the same time the death penalty should be allowed when rich persons (ie those who have so much that taking more is imoral) dodge taxes . They dont need to do that , they are rich ... right ?
Developers of property need to become experts at renovating existing buildings which have fallen to disrepair instead of building town after town of houses which arent going to get bought .
And finaly , the governments of the western world should from here on in, swear a vow, never to go to war outside thier borders , except in defense of a nation which is being invaded by another party. Spending money on that blasted war , is what REALLY started this in the first place, and what really grinds my gears , is that the only people who have TRUELY benifited from it, are haliburton and blackwater.


sty

posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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how would i fix the economy? I would close down ALL the banks , make it illegal for anyone to give loans with interest then I would set up government banks , with open administration - banks that would give interest free money for genue businesses. This would be more like a "democratic communism" ..



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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spend spend spend! if we stop kakin' ourselves and think for a second, what is the diffrence from before the "crisis" was annouced?
every ones scared of spending money! only difference in the shake shop i work at is no one will let themselves afford it. hours have been cut as a result and its all because they've heard a muppet on the news tell them "there's gonna be a credit crunch, watch how you spend" people start thinking "oh right there's a prolem with the money and that guy on tv said i should cut back on my spendng" money in the banks is actuly owned by they're customers for a change , start $h!+ing it and next the intrest is increased on loans ,cut on savings and houses are'nt worth as much!
clever plan to make us poor.
take my advice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . buy a speed boat, inject the economy with some cod hard cash. buisness' wont get better if you dont do buiness. how many stocks and shares do you think high ranking money men/women have bought out now? only to sell them back to you when the econs better?
jus some thoughts
mr.50



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by sty
 


And this guy ... this guy gets to supervise it ... Im in total agreement dude... lets buy an island and show those suitwearing jerks a thing or two about proportional government spending !




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