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Holocaust a 'big lie': Iran govt spokesman

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45

Yeah yeah yeah - and iraq had WMD. haha

Govts lie about everything and they're lying about the holocaust. It's a myth invented by the WW2 Allies to deflect criticism of the MILLION of CIVILIANS the allies killed by their policy of urban bombing. Another classic case of absolving your own crimes by making your victim appear more criminal. History is written by the victors.


Yes history is written by the victors in some regards but what does the holocaust have to do with urban bombing? In a war you fight with whatever means you have available. The allies had more firepower and a better strategy, thus they won.

You seem to think everything is a "war crime" but this is not necessarily true. The holocaust, or better stated as *ethnic cleansing*, is not a necessity of war. Jews and gypsies did not have weapons, nor did they declare war on nazi germany; nazi germany "declared war" on them!

Please do not confuse concepts for the sake of axis propaganda. If you are german/japanese/italian it is better to admit you were wrong then to continue believing whatever you were told just because it makes you feel good.




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Here we go again... the holocaust! And the ridiculous 6 million figure... the wave in which jews expect to surf their way into all crimes unpunished, their battle horse for 64 years. Cant you find another good story?

Studies prove... 6 million is completely ridiculous, drop that figure! You will only get more and more people asking and questioning and turning on Israel for lying... and ppl hate being lied to.

The problem with the holocaust really, its... because it keeps being brought up and everytime its brought up it has new facts. It has more remakes than any story in human history and its also the most fantastic one.

Its the only story that devides humans into "nazis" and "sit, good dog" people. Either you believe in the holocaust and its ok, or you question it and you're a NAZI.

Oh btw... and number tattoos doesnt make a proof that the holocaust happened, its just proves that he or she has been in a concentration camp during the WW2... and they survived, great! Like I said before... theres a LOT of survivors coming from a mass extermination plan that went on for 6 years. I say, if the germans really wanted to exterminate all of them, they would and there will be no survivors today to tell the story.

When will people wake up, and use their brains to study the subject thoroughly, do their own math, study all the facts and even - if possible - go there and see it with your own eyes and then draw your own conclusions without fear of being called a "nazi" just because you think for yourself. Its all available for studying... at least almost everything, there are some "forbidden areas" imposed by the jews, and theres even manipulated facts like altered landscapes and after-war constructions obstructing some sites of investigation, but I'm sure you'll manage... if you really want to.

Like I said before in other posts, and someone already did in this thread, history is written by the victors... but the average person should be able to get access to everything they needed to study it. What I mean is.. when things are true, they are allowed to be studied right? Why is the holocaust the big "no no" for historians? Thou shall not study the holocaust nor question the word of the "chosen people"?

All this "blockade" in all investigation regarding the holocaust its just the first proof that it is not true or not "completely true" and there are facts that the "chosen people" doesnt want you to know so they can continue their agenda (whatever it is) with the worlds permission with always the same "oh dont be like that... they suffered a lot those poor souls".

The holocaust right now is nothing more than a weapon of propaganda. And I guess if the "chosen people" have the right to use it for propaganda I think muslims are entitled to use all the nine crusades against them and that goes from about 1090 to 1272, something like 180 years of meaning for hating the western world and to use it for their own anti-west propaganda. At least its more than 6 years...

The fantastic holocaust story will be the downfall of the "chosen people" when it gets thought the "iron curtain" they insist on placing between investigators and the facts. But sooner or later we'll get through and the whole world will know the truth and how they're being deceived and manipulated for almost 70 years.

And theres also the "blind people". The ones that see the facts and dont want to believe them, they cannot stand the idea of being of being fooled for 70 years, the idea that themselves defended them for 70 years and it was all a lie... the blind man its not the one who doesnt see, but the one who refuses to see.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 


I agree, it happened.

Ive been to the camps, they are big. There is mountains of evidence saying it occured.

Photos, documents, medical records, movies, audio, transcripts...

While this guy is wrong in stating it didnt happen,

I do believe it has been seriously OVERSTATED.

And it is and has been used as an excuse to create a western/zionist base in the middle east.

World War II showed the world the absolute value of OIL, and Location.

Israel was our answer!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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I watched some of the video on this conference last night. First off the Iranian President is not disputing that the holocust took place but questions what took place. That is the purpose of the conference. Many Orthodox Jews were in attendance at the conference as were a wide range of scholars from around the world.

There were some unique ideas put forward regarding the conference.

Free speech was one of them. Anyone could put forth any theory regardless of political corectness!

Imagine that? Actually being able to say or ask something aimed at a broader and deeper range of factual understanding without being attacked as a rascist or a Nazi or an anti-Semite.

That was the second unique feature about the conference. It wasn't designed to put out propoganda regardless of how western news media reports it. It was designed to allow for discussion where the conclusion was not already predetermined, people could actually come and exchange ideas, research and opinions and theories and you actually then get to make up your mind all on your own without being told what it is you are supposed to beleive.

It's a crying shame how many people died in World War II.

It's a crying shame how close we are to World War III because it's impossible to speak in historical accurate terms about what happened in World War I and II specifically regarding the Balfour Agreement and Zionist Terrorism against the British during World War II, Zionist attempts to forge alliances with Nazi Germany to help them oust the British from Palestine during World War II, Zionist funding and support of the Nazi party leading up to World War II especially from United States Zionist owned and controlled businesses, and what exactly happened during the holocust and what led to it.

It is entirely possible as reprehensible as it sounds that Zionists prompted the holocust in order to ensure immigration to a less than desired life back in the dessert that Jews were not opting for in any great numbers prior to the genocide against them in World War II and it is entirely possible that as some of Winston Churchills private letters suggest while he was Colonial Secretary and overseerer of Palestine that the Zionist powers that be wanted to purge certain types of ethnic Jews who were predisposed to immigrate to Palestine but weren't really the types of charachters the Zionists where looking for to build the state they envisioned with.

When people start saying things like questioning or mentioning what happened during the holocust and why should result in a jail sentence as the only way to end hate, all I see is a whole lot of hate for people not accepting verbatim what others insist they must.

That is so fundamentally warped as to be beyond frightening.

The Internet is changing the way people seek, obtain and share information. It is a tool for potential unlimited learning for those who want to learn.

It truly does make Zionists, or any other person or group look like they have something to hide when they tolerate no debate, no questioning or even discussion when it comes to their rigid views. Honestly more and more people see as just a blanket excuse to ever accept responsibility for Israel's many violations of U.N. Mandates, conventions, censures, and condemnations, as well as Geneva Conventions and many independent Human Rights orginizations.

The Iranian President is guilty of one thing in regards to this conference and I for one am not sure if it is something one should be ashamed of being guilty of. He wants to keep the political spotlight on Israel at a time when 1200 innocent women and children have freshly been burried after being killed in yet another needless war of aggression between two sides that will never be able to make peace when one side is determined come what may to never accept any responsibility for it's participation in the whole sordid affair in a genuine way that could ever allow for a genuine peace.

That is the realization that more and more people come to as they are labeled this negative adjective and that negative verb to go along with that negative noun for daring to question the edicts of the Zionist regime that many are also coming to the conclusion virtually runs and controlls the United States of America. That's great if you are an Israeli, or Zionist. For the people of America who aren't and don't enjoy being lied to and bankrupted and manipulated it's not ideal at all. For those people like the Palestinians and Lebanese it's a crime of far greater proportion. For people living in places like Iran, Syria and Pakistan who know they are next on the list it's even more frightening as they wait to hear the sound of Jack Boots echoeing through their streets, knowing full well as Pakistan is finding out the hardway, no amount of cooperation or effort is ever enough. It literally is a case of completely give up your sovereignty as we have here in the United States or be prepared to face a violent regime change that will be forced on you.

Free speech and the right to question anything should never be questioned or assailed, I don't care how repugnant the topic is that is being questioned or assailed.

I hear the East saying one thing over and over again, they are willing to talk and reach a greater understanding and broad peace if we here in the West are willing to to talk and make some compromises for it.

I hear the West amazingly countering with the same thing over and over again. There is no point in talking the East's most radical ellements are indicative of the entire East, every last man, woman and child and we want them all dead, enslaved, and their religion outlawed.

When push comes to shove I don't think any amount of PR, or name calling is going to get the mainstream portions of Western Society that don't share the extremist views of our most radical ellements to go along with it.

The more name calling and insults us moderates have to endure during these attempts at provoking World War III, West versus East, Judean/Christian versus Islam the less likely it is Israel will enjoy the biased support it has enjoyed for far too long and put to the worst possible use of the average American citizen.

The day that biased support ends is the day Israel will have to join the rest of the world's nations and live by the International community's standards.

Soon is not soon enough in that regard.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by thymisou
reply to post by Razimus
 


Although I don't want to be flamebait, I can't help but notice some zionistic/masonic tactics in your writings, razimus.

Iran's president is among the very few presidents who has the balls to say things the way they are and act accordingly.



Whoa... really? He has balls to say it the way it is? He said there are no homosexuals in Iran.... is that the way it really is?

He said the Holocaust did not happen.... I realize ultimately he is trying to remove justification for Israel to have ever become a state.

But heres the thing... he is ultimately an idiot. Because it makes no difference WHY Israel is a state...

The only thing that matters is that Israel IS a state. So he can attempt to remove justification for Israel's existence all he wants, it doesn't matter the Nation exists as much as Iran, and the man who would fancy himself Darius.







And many people don't like that. They want Iran assimilated. He has no interest in nuking Israel, I'll tell you that.



I want Iran assimilated into normal diplomatic relations with all other countries yes...




Muslims in the M.E. don't sit around all day thinking "how am I gonna kill more Jews / Christians?".



Who said they did? What does this have to do with Muslims? This has to to with Iran and Israel, two states....

Surely these two states are not stupid enough to let religion influence their international politics...




They go about their daily lives like we all do... UNLESS PROVOKED.

I've met many muslims and I got this impression from all of them. And the US/Israel have provoked them more than plenty.



How has the US Provoked them?





But jews / israelis / zionists (ok, one group or the other, pick your favourite - I have mine) have been infiltrating our governments, have been "tweaking" the financial system(s) to their plans and have been putting forward a specific agenda. I think that much is clear to most ATSers.



What government are you referring to as "our" government?

Mine is the USA and I don't see that happening.




Is Israel with its heavy-handed tactics better? Are they better when they have direct control of the US government, which they are using to their sole advantage?



Can you please provide evidence of Israel directly controlling the US Gov?





Many people are aware of Israels heavy handed-ness and the Jews' sneaky tactics behind their ever-present pleasantries, and we don't quite appreciate it.

Just some thoughts...


Some racist thoughts...



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


You speak of the Freedom of Speech at this conference yet Homosexuals are hunted down and killed in Iran.


Amazing... It's obvious Iran is playing everyone for a fool with their attempts at openness and "freedom of ideas" at this conference.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo

Couple that with the fact that Jewish leaders circulated pamphlets directly after WORLD WAR ONE saying that 6 Million Jews were exterminated during that war also in order to get the British to give them their own country in the Empire controlled middle east. It wasn't really believed by the masses but it got attention from the Brits who began to look into it.

That one simple fact raises questions about the NUMBER who died in WW2... not whether or not it actually happened.


They seem to like that 6 million figure :

The 'Six Million' Figure Began Over 100 Yrs Ago



Most people think that the figure "six million" emerged during World War II, when it was claimed that Germany killed that many Jews in the "Holocaust."* But the magic six-million figure dates back to 1900. Here a distinguished educator and historical investigator from Australia shows how this number first appeared in its current mystical configura- tion, as he presents sequentially items gleaned from articles published in The New York Times between 1900 and 1920.

May 7, 1920: "Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe,
where six million face horrifying conditions of famine, disease
and death."

May 5, 1920: "[T]o save six million men and women in Eastern
Europe from extermination by hunger and disease."

May 5, 1920: "Six million starving, fever-stricken sufferers in
war-torn Europe appeal to us.

May 3, 1920: "Your help is needed to save the lives of six million
people in Eastern and Central Europe.

May 2, 1920: " . . . Six million human beings, without food, shelter,
clothing or medical treatment."

May 1, 1920: "But the lives of six million human beings are waiting
for an answer."

Nov. 12, 1919: " . . . tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation
and disease about six million souls, or half the Jewish population of
the Earth . . . a million children and five million parents and elders."
Sept. 29, 1919: " . . . tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and
disease . . . about six million souls, or half the Jewish population
of the Earth."

Aug. 10, 1917: "Germans Let Jews Die. Women and Children in
Warsaw Starving to Death . . . Jewish mothers, mothers of mercy,
feel happy to see their nursing babies die; at least they are through
with their suffering."

Jan. 14, 1915: "In the world today there are about 13 million Jews,
of whom more than six million are in the heart of the war zone;
Jews, whose lives are at stake and who today are subjected to
every manner of suffering and sorrow . . . "

But to go one step further back in time. In 1900, Rabbi Stephen Wise made the following statement for Jewish welfare organizations in the United States: "There are six million living, bleeding, suffering argu- ments in favor of Zionism."


www.rense.com...



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Flighty
Instead of sprouting off propaganda rhetoric, why don't the Iranians provide PROOF if they are so sure the Holocaust was a big lie.
First it was a lessening of the actual number of the poor souls who were killed and now it's gone to , it didn't happen at all.

That's a big statement especially without any documents or PROOF to back it up.

As we say on ATS....link please, Mr Iranian Government Spokesman.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Flighty]


The Iranian strategy has a built-in failsafe.

You can't prove something didn't happen, 'specially if it didn't happen, right?

*The burden of proof is on US; to convince them...



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


You speak of the Freedom of Speech at this conference yet Homosexuals are hunted down and killed in Iran.


Amazing... It's obvious Iran is playing everyone for a fool with their attempts at openness and "freedom of ideas" at this conference.



Good posts Hunka, a star for you.

I don't know what/who i find more sickening, people rejecting the historical fact, or the people arguing that the killing of 3 million is somehow less of a crime than 6 million...

The number of fatalities have been disputed even for WW1 and WW2, does it make either war less of a tragedy? I think not.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45
Yeah yeah yeah - and iraq had WMD. haha

Govts lie about everything and they're lying about the holocaust. It's a myth invented by the WW2 Allies to deflect criticism of the MILLION of CIVILIANS the allies killed by their policy of urban bombing. Another classic case of absolving your own crimes by making your victim appear more criminal. History is written by the victors.



an interesting point, we British bombed many thousands of German civilians deliberately. Also, the war never ended in freedom for East Germany, Poland etc who suffered under the hands of the, arguably, more vicious and murderous soviets.

A large mass of people died in the concentration camps, mostly Jewish, but other nationalities and religions also- some deliberately killed, some from disease, starvation, overwork etc. Horrific whether 1 million or 6 million (as horrific as the tens of millions murdered in soviet oppression)

[edit on 30-1-2009 by blueorder]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by MilitieTempliSalmo
 


The holocaust is a fact. Especially the part about 6 million Jews killed. You're not fooling anyone. And if you want to seriously continue this than debate me in a moderated thread. So everyone can see.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by Founding
The holocaust is a fact. Especially the part about 6 million Jews killed. You're not fooling anyone. And if you want to seriously continue this than debate me in a moderated thread. So everyone can see.


Im not a holocaust denier but there is no "fact" about 6 million- that sort of near fascist like devotion to one number adds nothing to the debate- one million is a disgusting figure alone (not saying it is a "FACT" that one million died btw)



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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why does that plague say 4 million jews?

Auschwitz-Birkenau couldn`t handle that many ;

the site wasn`t built until 1941 yet the plagues all say 1940 - in 1940 it was an abandoned horse yard.

the first gas chamber wasn`t built (actually a converted red brick cottage) until march 1942

the first purpose built chambers were constructed in 1943 , with all 4 being ready by june 1943 and yet between june 1942 and december 1943 , the german records show 250,000 killed at Auschwitz .

the busiest time for Auschwitz was throughout spring > summer of 1944 - when the soon to be leaders of Israel threw away the hungarian jews - 426,000 were sent to Auschwitz in the 3 months from april to june 1944

what is the most widely accepted - outside of israel figure is around 1.1 million people in total died at all Auschwitz camps , of which 960,000 were jews , and the res made up of ethnic poles (150,000) roma (25,000) and russian army (unknown but at least a thousand)


of the jews killed - 1/2 were the abandoned Hungarian jews; which left a bitter taste for those hungarian jews that survived knowing that the new homeland didn`t want you.

so where did the other millions come from? eastern europe and russia , mostly by mass shootings and then the `original camps` of Chelmno, Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka. All of which were closed and destroyed by 1943.

in fact , if some scholars are to be believed , at least 2 of the mentioned sites above are suggested to never even had existed, since there is nothing there at all. nothing to suggest a camp had been built.

makes you wonder though , when modern investiagtion teams can`t find any evidence.....



now as to the OP - what he is saying , as ahmenijhad actually says , is why is Israel trading on an event , which has happened before and after during our history as the main reason for its existance? israel was in the bible , and yet its hardly mentioned as from there - so why live for the `holocaust` which wasn`t as massive as they want to think it was - the USA is taught 1 think , europe is taught another and israel something else - all different numbers.


what musnt be forgotton , the real lesson is that mass extermiantions should never be accetped - so why the hell is israel doing it to gaza , and many people on here support it i will never know.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by Drexl
 


Interesting post.

If there was only 6 million of them and 6 million died... why are there so many survivors?

If in 1900 there were 11million jews world wide, after the Holocaust there should have been about 5 million left. However in 1950 (only a few years later) there were 11million Jews worldwide?

This means that the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust had to be under 1million.

See the number of Jews in Europe dropped by the millions. However the number of Jews in other parts of the world such as in the US and Israel went up by the millions. So the population wasn't eliminated, it was just shifted.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin



now as to the OP - what he is saying , as ahmenijhad actually says , is why is Israel trading on an event , which has happened before and after during our history as the main reason for its existance? israel was in the bible , and yet its hardly mentioned as from there - so why live for the `holocaust` which wasn`t as massive as they want to think it was - the USA is taught 1 think , europe is taught another and israel something else - all different numbers.



Ahmadinejad and the Iranian regime thrive on disputed religious teachings to justify and rule by, how is this any different?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by theblunttruth
 



Ahmadinejad and the Iranian regime thrive on disputed religious teachings to justify and rule by, how is this any different?


The difference is they aren't making claim to land by killing it's current occupiers based on something that was apparently said thousands of years ago by God. The current European Jews in Israel had no connection to the land prior to the mandate 60 years ago. Their grand parents, great grand parents...etc were not from the land. They were European for many generations.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Obliterated
reply to post by theblunttruth
 



Ahmadinejad and the Iranian regime thrive on disputed religious teachings to justify and rule by, how is this any different?


The difference is they aren't making claim to land by killing it's current occupiers based on something that was apparently said thousands of years ago by God. The current European Jews in Israel had no connection to the land prior to the mandate 60 years ago. Their grand parents, great grand parents...etc were not from the land. They were European for many generations.



No instead they are taking claim to their own peoples lives. Hanging gays, stoning adulterers, imprisoning Bahais, stoning religious converts... All in the name of their version of history!



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by xstealth
 


stop drinking MSM kool aid and start seeing the facts



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
How has the US Provoked them?


Sorry, can I be clear on this - how has the US provoked the Muslim world? Are you freaking joking?



Originally posted by HunkaHunka

What government are you referring to as "our" government?

Mine is the USA and I don't see that happening.


Then you are mad, or blind. You don't think billions of dollars in "bailouts" that are simply debasing the value of the dollar in your pocket is part of an innocent "this must be the best way!" plan, or a deliberate attempt to reduce the amount of wealth that you personally own?

Are you really this silly? Why has the price of milk gone up by 30%? Are there less cows? Are there less cars and fuel to transport it to your shops? No, there's a record number of barrels/day produced, and still prices go up.

This is entirely contrived, and you're a fool if you don't see it.


Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Can you please provide evidence of Israel directly controlling the US Gov?


Is this some kind of silly-bugger statement? Are you expecting a document entitled "The Zionist Masterplan to Control the World starting with the US"?



Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Some racist thoughts...



Racism

rac⋅ism
   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Tell me how he was being racist, you liberal fascist. Screaming "racism!" like a woman who just had her arse pinched doesn't mean he is a racist, it just means you're happy to police people for no other reason as you've been programmed to do so.

Let the man speak, for crying out loud.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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to give a perspective of the numbers being killed , consider this


take the entire population of Walterboro, South Carolina, just over 5000 load them into trains , process them (money , clothes etc) then kill 95% of them , and dispose of the bodies - every day for 90 days.


the designers of the furnaces told Rudolf Hoess that the furnaces had to be overhauled after a few thousand cycles (which was only done when they broke), also the human body takes time to be burnt - around 2 hours each , so with 52 ovens , the maximum daily operating capaicity was just over 1240

but this wasn`t fast enough

so they doubled the amount of bodies burnt at 1 time to 2 per oven , and didn`t wait for each body to be completely burnt away before loading the next , reducing cycle time to 25 minutes (+/- loading time)

this increase daily capacity to around 4700

and yet nearly 1000 more , per day , were dying.

also there are many reports of the ovens breaking down frequently , as nothing like this was to be expected, and even though they were the best that could be built (topf lead the world in design) they wern`t supposed to be used like this. oh btw the man who made the ovens , after realising what they were being used for , killed himself in shame.


there is a finite limit , from a technological point of view to the maximum operation of the camp - and this dosen`t lend itself to supporting a claim of 6 million jewish deaths.

[edit on 30/1/09 by Harlequin]



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