Originally posted by Crabmeat
And of the Mohel practically sucking on a child penis...
First, in response to this, late me state, shame on you. Bringing something you know naught about. This portion of the procedure, you forgot to mention, is a sterilizing procedure. The Mohel engulfs in his mouth a cupful of blessed wine, and douses the open wound should it get infected. Secondly; there is absolutely nothing sexual about the procedure. The Mohel isn't aroused doing something very holy, and neither does the baby. Neither did your mother get aroused when she washed you in the nude, sometimes completely cupping your genitalia. Why disservice a Mohel's obligation to his community, and not a mothers obligation to her child?

Anyway, that was a very crumby thing for you to take a jab at. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Crabmeat]

Shame on you for pretending outrage. Let us take your argument apart for a few seconds.

"Blessed" wine for antiseptic? I won't start debating the "blessed" part of it, but I will ask why he can't just apply the "blessed" wine with something more sanitary than his mouth? Maybe cotton wool? Secondly while we are looking at it , this is 2009 and we do have antiseptic creams etc? As far as I know jews have nothing against medicine, but you can definitely prove me wrong, can't you?

You say the Mohel is not aroused? You are probably right but do you KNOW this to be so? And at the time of the original circumcisons (after the covenant with Abraham)did the Mohels suck the penises of the adults who had just been circumcised? Sounds homo-erotic doesn't it?

Finally I promise you that when my mother washed me when I was a baby she did it with a cloth, soap and water, NEVER with her tongue or mouth - maybe we didn't have "Blessed" wine.



[edit on 1-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

While today Mohels strictly use a glass tool to apply the wine, some families request the traditional oral application.

The oral application, mind you, has nothing to do with sucking. The significance of oral application is simple; the Mohel is trained for the circumcision process, and the prayers are recited by word of mouth. The oral dousing of the open wound is symbolic of the prayers spoken, and the shared covenant that God made with Abraham, which was orally instructed, being instilled in the child.

But enough about this, it's not something to be discussed with a bunch of people who want to demonize holy procedures. You are the ones that turned the whole thing homo-erotic due to your own homophobia.

Originally posted by Thistled

Originally posted by vonspurter
Well male humans are born with a foreskin so if you creationists believe we are created by God and then that God commands you to cut the foreskin off then it begs the question why did he create such a thing as a foreskin in the first place? Dumb God.

I wholeheartedly agree! Star.

There was no disease when God first created Adam and Eve. Disease, death and decay entered into the world because of sin(disobedience to one simple law...man failed to keep one simple rule).

Dumb Man!!

cutting off male's foreskin exists in islam too not just in "christianty" and judaism. so this cerimony must be something beyond man's creation .and this also proves the oness origine of these three religions .

Well, I'm an atheist so I can't really weigh in on the whole question of why someone I don't believe in would want something. I can weigh in on the other stuff. Especially since some people have asked how circumcised men feel about it.

I am circumcised, I am a man, and I am not Jewish. I also wish that I hadn't been circumcised. I am a little bitter about it actually. to be honest, I'm very bitter about it. I feel like I had a piece of my body removed and permanently scarred for no reason and without my consent.

My glans dries out sometimes and I have to apply lotion to help. It stings. I also have to deal with the fact that the doctor took too much, or I'm larger than they expected, and I have hair on the shaft of my penis. It's not fun, I can tell you that. If I could somehow regrow my foreskin I would do it in a heartbeat.

Now I have seen some people say things like, "it's just a bit of excess skin, who cares?" Apparently one of these people is a woman; so let me give her an analogy. Lets say that you were a few days old and your parents decided to get you "circumcised." So the doctor removes your inner labia. You still have the outer labia to protect the opening to your vagina and urethra, so you don't really "need" the inner labia. It's just some excess skin. How would you feel about it?

I also have to wonder at these circumcised men who say that they haven't noticed a lack. Well, of course you haven't! You haven't had a foreskin since you were a week or so old. You can't notice the lack of a thing you basically never had.

Other people seem to think that because the kid won't remember it's not a horrific thing to do. Well I have to tell you, I disagree. Along those lines it would be okay to poke kids with needles every hour until they are a few years old because they won't remember it.

Related to that, one person said they heard it happen to their kids and it wasn't a problem. This person went on to say that babies cry when they get injections too. Well, I hate to break it to you but babies cry when they get a shot because they are startled, not because they are in extreme pain. My wife is in nursing school doing her OB clinical right now. One nurse said that she couldn't even stay in the room when they did a circumcision, it was that horrible.

Furthermore, it's an elective surgical procedure done to an infant. A completely unnecessary surgical procedure. Done without pain relief. How is it the parents right to make that decision for their child? Sure, if there is a medical problem, and they do happen, that makes circumcision necessary it's alright. It's like genital cosmetic surgery on an infant.

Not to mention that we know that it does the child no good. It doesn't help prevent disease. It isn't cleaner. There is no reason for it. The main reason it is a cultural norm in the United States is because in the 1800s doctors thought it was a good idea. Why? They thought that it would help prevent the child from masturbating when he got older. I'm not even kidding.

Let's not forget the potential complications. Others have mentioned how sometimes things go wrong. They do, and it may necessitate the removal of a portion of the penis. There is also the problem of infection. I have seen images of MRSA infected circumcision wounds. It's not pretty. One by lost all the skin on his penis, scrotum, perineal area, and up on to his abdomen. Imagine that, I know it's gross but it happens sometimes.

I could go on, but this post is getting long enough as is. I just have one last thing to say. My wife is pregnant with our first son. He will not be getting circumcised. Our midwife approves wholeheartedly of this decision. When he asks me why his penis is different from mine and the other boys I will be honest with him. I'll tell him that my parents just went along with the cultural norm and had it done. They didn't think about it and I wish they hadn't done it. That's why I didn't let them do it to him and his looks different.

Circumcision is ancient medicine

Back in the days before modern medicine, people still suffered from fungi infections down below the belt. The story goes that Abraham couldn't get any children with his wife. Then he meets God who solves the problem by cutting off Abraham's foreskin. And that's what happened. God treated Abraham for smegma and fungus. Must have had an awful smell.

My two cents is most americans are wage slaves of jewish bankers and elites. American Israeli connection. Thus in order to keep the covenant they must circumcise the slaves. Doctors were probably told to push it until it became common practice. Now if they push circumcision they could probably be sued for malpractice.

My wife wants to circumcise any male children we have she has been with both and thinks a circumcised penis is more beautiful. I argue that it is mutilation. I hope she will wait until he is old enough to decide for himself.

who talked to god seems strange that he would not talk to any body since then why would he let people kill for thousands of years and would they not burn you alive for talking against the church saying you belive in the devil so no one else could say that they were wrong

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I've found a lot of the stuff in the O.T. - that God supposedly put down as law - really were just health things.

No shellfish. No pork. No foreskin. etc etc. Things that are actually healthier for the body somehow became 'God's Law'. - just an observation.

You have to remember MEN wrote the bible not GOD yes I said it
Man created god not the otherway!

I can't speak for God but if I had Brad Pitt's foreskin then I'm pretty sure that I could sell it on Ebay for a chunk of cash.

Originally posted by RFBurns
Its a pagan tradition...ancient practice. Something that man came up with, not God.

2nd line.


Cheers!!!!

Hah... You realize Yahweh is basically just a God amongst other Cannanite Gods right?


What is this "God came up with" malarkey?

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Circumcision is ancient medicine

Back in the days before modern medicine, people still suffered from fungi infections down below the belt. The story goes that Abraham couldn't get any children with his wife. Then he meets God who solves the problem by cutting off Abraham's foreskin. And that's what happened. God treated Abraham for smegma and fungus. Must have had an awful smell.

Thank you... this is the most logical sounding post I've read thus far.

Circumcision is an Egyptian practice as are the Hebrew...Egyptian.


"Out of Egypt, I have called my people Israel"....God/Ra/Yah

"In those days Egypt shall be first, then Assur, then Israel third"

[edit on 25-3-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]

This is why "the 7th is also the 8th and goes to perdition".

What is the 8th but a circum scribe around the obilisk. The obilisk is wisdom towering.

This is why "there were Giants in those days and even after".

Giant is a reference to "Men of Renown" or "Men of the Name". I can name a few Giants for you. Rothchilds, Rockefeller, Bush...all the ones you've heard of.

These Giants who are devouring men are the reason for circumcision. When God spoke to Nebuchadnezzar, he told him he would pass over him 7 times before his mind and memory returned to him. This is speaking of Generations, that the King would become an ass of man, wild generations, before his mind returned to him.

It did finally return to him and he proclaimed that God is supreme right before his circumcision on the Cross as Jesus Christ. Two people do not receive the title of King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The names are in essence the same thing. Nebuchadnezzar means, "Nebo/Eber take care of my youngest son". Jesus means "self existent salvation" or "We the people".

Understand that the Hebrew have built and destroyed each great kingdom while "scattered amongst the nations". Who do you think the USA is? Joseph my friends and Joseph is in Egypt to this day. Know why? Egypt is from Mitzraim which means Mary also called Amerigo said by you America.

Remember the 3 wise men following a star? How about the Nina, Pinta and the Santa Maria following a star? Plymoth Rock? "On this rock shall I build my church" How about those 13 colonies or those 13 appostles one of which was a Benedict Arnold? How about those to sons of Joseph Ephraim the north and Manasseh the south. Don't you remember Abraham? What about that Mt. Rushmore where those 4 angels are bound till a certain hour? Team America jokes about it. Funny how every plot in a comedy lately is about making Baal Cain OH's erupt. In a volcano, there is no need for the sun. It comes from the east to the west in a flash of lightening. And he will be as burnished bronze. Mt. Tsion...."at the center of the earth were there is still warmth"

They tell you the same story over and over and over again only change the names and places to protect you, the innocent.

Circumcision is about chopping off your pride so you can see things brand new, not the penis....God is a little deeper then skin, he's the one doing everything inside of you, the miracle called life.

Peace

[edit on 25-3-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]