It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia 'stops missile deployment in Europe because of Obama'

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:17 AM
link   

Russia 'stops missile deployment in Europe because of Obama'


www.timesonline.co.uk

Russia held out an olive branch to President Barack Obama today by suspending plans to deploy missiles in Europe, according to a report in Moscow.

An official from Russia's General Staff in Moscow told Interfax news that the move had been made because the new United States leadership was reconsidering plans to establish a missile defence shield in eastern Europe.

Deployment of Iskander short-range missiles, which can carry nuclear warheads, was being suspended in Russia's Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad in response, the unidentified official said.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:17 AM
link   
It has always been my opinion that the European 'missile defense shield' was a provocative posture and would lead to anything BUT defense. Clearly, Russia would be forced to counter the move and we would be back into another crippling arms race. Any step back from that situation is, IMO, a positive move.


www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:31 AM
link   
reply to post by jtma508
 




Russia 'stops missile deployment in Europe because of Obama.' It has always been my opinion that the European 'missile defense shield' was a provocative posture and would lead to anything BUT defense. Clearly, Russia would be forced to counter the move and we would be back into another crippling arms race.



Absolutely. The RF's intrusion into Georgia was a predictable consequence of Reagan/Bush Neo Con thinking - that itself an oxymoron. When the USSR collapsed in the 1989-1991 time frame, America’s advocates of the Doctrine of World Dominance took over. As we oft heard boasted, we are the LAST superpower standing! Since then we have made treaties with several of the former USSR central Asian -stans. Kazakstan. Uzbekistan. Turkmenistan. Georgia. Armenia. The Baltic states. Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus. On a map of the world, the US has surrounded the new Russian Federation with OUR NEW ALLIES.

The Russians created the short-lived CIS - Commonwealth of Independent States - as a stop gap move to block US expansionist tendencies.

The Russians have just WARNED the Europeans that they are dependent on Russian natural gas. They had better reign in NATO and stop the EU expansion. Our lackey in Georgia mistook our hoopla for real talk, and he will not last out his term. The RF showed the EU that the US is indeed a paper tiger! IMO.

Now that our MAD DOG Born Again regime of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are gone, we can begin to re-join the civilized world.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:33 AM
link   
reply to post by jtma508
 


excellent and timely post! (since you 'beat me' to it by a few minutes!!)

Lets hope the 2015 nuclear attack of john titor's worldline can finally (?) be

avoided on our worldlline, as a nonlinear (chaos) system effect of this little

butterfly's wings flapping.....cheers and starred.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by drphilxr]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:35 AM
link   
The thing that bugged me about all this was why did it even need to be out in the open?

Surely we would know if tensions were mounting, in which case it wouldn't be hard to share technology with the nations we would use to host such a shield and work together anyway? It could all be done in secret could it not?

And having it out in the open would make it useful for how long exactly?
There would be a race, Russia would develop a way around it, we would follow to combat that, they would move again...
At least if it was done only when actually needed and maintained a level of secrecy, there would be an element of surprise.

The USA should have been working on this technology anyway, have it ready for deployment. And then if Russia was really ever deemed to be a threat, it could be secretly deployed to friendly nations.

That's why I am more convinced that this was all about scaring the public, encouraging animosity and provoking Russia.
Which makes me also consider that Russia were right when they suggested that this was an attempt to get missiles aimed at them.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:38 AM
link   
My guess is because the deal with Russia for NATO transport of goods to Afghanistan just went through:

link


Nato soldiers in Afghanistan have reached a landmark deal with Moscow to let them haul supplies in through Russia. Food and fuel for British troops in Helmand could soon arrive via one of the highest, longest and most dangerous mountain passes in the world.

Most of the supplies for foreign troops in Afghanistan come through the Khyber Pass, from Pakistan.

But worsening violence there has shut the road for weeks at a time - leaving soldiers dangerously low on supplies.

The deal means Nato supply convoys coming from the north will have to cross the Hindu Kush mountains, via a terrifying mountain pass almost two-and-a-half times the height of Ben Nevis.

Crucially, though, the highway is largely free of Taliban or insurgent activity.

"It is one of the safest highways in Afghanistan," said Haroun Mir, founder of the Afghanistan Centre for Policy Studies and Research.


I'm sure there were concessions.


 

Fixed link display


[edit on 28-1-2009 by dbates]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:48 AM
link   
Thank goodness for diplomacy. Hopefully with the new Administration the US may be able to stay on civilized terms with the Russians.

The bear can be very reasonable when not being poked and prodded.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:06 PM
link   
reply to post by detachedindividual
 




The thing that bugged me about all this was why did it even need to be out in the open? Surely we would know if tensions were mounting, in which case it wouldn't be hard to share technology with the nations we would use to host such a shield and work together anyway?



Russia was communicating directly with Americans, bypassing Bush43. Yes, we caused the tensions. Indeed, we of all people should know but most Americans do not. The so-called missile defense system aimed at Iran is now and has always been a Military Industrial complex scam! You would think any Pole would NOT want to be part and party to a power struggle involving Russia but apparently their leaders are not any smarter than our former leader. In another war, Poland would be the first to go. I don’t recall if the other site was to be in Czech Republic or Slovakia. It is hard from me to believe the Czechs would do that but not so hard to believe the Slovaks would.

Fortunately from my point of view, America can no longer afford to squander 10s of billions on such useless hi tech trash, so being intelligent or not is rendered moot.




It could all be done in secret could it not? And having it out in the open would make it useful for how long exactly? There would be a race, Russia would develop a way around it, we would follow to combat that, they would move again. At least if it was done only when actually needed and maintained a level of secrecy, there would be an element of surprise.



Only Osama bin Laden can keep a secret. And he is not into such pointless dabbling.




That's why I am more convinced that this was all about scaring the public, encouraging animosity and provoking Russia. Which makes me also consider that Russia were right when they suggested that this was an attempt to get missiles aimed at them.



Exactly!

[edit on 1/28/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:09 PM
link   
More likely they ran out of money with the drop in oil prices and are using this 'Olive Branch" as a face saving measure after all of thier Soviet Era bluster.

Anybody with half a brain in Russia has to realize that the interceptors based in Poland have no chance of stopping a determined USSR attack. Unless thier strategic forces are in such bad shape they can only get 5-10 ICBM's into the air. Then they may have a point.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:12 PM
link   
Lemme guess ... Russia wasn't able to get their missiles up and running on time so they 'extended an olive branch' for a while to make themselves look good in the eyes of those gullible enough to believe them.

Give it a few months. A year even. When they are back on schedule with deployment they will suddenly become upset at something and say they are redeploying. Even though it was the plan all along.

Ahhh politics.
So darn seethrough.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by jtma508
 


Here Here to both countries for this positive move forward.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Lemme guess ... Russia wasn't able to get their missiles up and running on time so they 'extended an olive branch' for a while to make themselves look good in the eyes of those gullible enough to believe them.


Exactly, at best this olive branch is a stall. They will still deploy missiles ONCE they have the money or the development done.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:18 PM
link   
reply to post by FredT
 


russia has large forex reserves and massive underground cities ....

secondly , in my opinion not due to oil prices

thirdly ,READ on what former russian General Leonid Ivanshov said , the russian govt inner circle(siloviki) mainly fears that these silos would ultimately be transformed into IRBM launchers and that USA is trying to surround Russia




ussia wasn't able to get their missiles up and running on time so they 'extended an olive branch' for a while to make themselves look good in the eyes of those gullible enough to believe them.


Russia already has cruise missiles to effectively deal with ABM defence system, the iskander missile deployment was for public consumption




They will still deploy missiles ONCE they have the money or the development done


Iskander missiles deployment is just meant for public consumption
there are several highly accurate Scarab missiles in kaliningrad and even accurate Scud-D launchers

[edit on 28-1-2009 by sadchild01]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:27 PM
link   
russia and nato are actually secret allies

there is coca cola in russia and russians in american universities

we actually formed a alliance during world war two, but agreed to pretend to be enemies to keep our people controlled

the truth is USA and Russia HAVE TO SHARE all their top secrets because of.........Aliens!

russia got crashed saucers as well as we have, and this is why we are actually allies secertly

ever wonder why "they always figure it out"?

because they HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT!
we cant go to war! we are allied vs the extra terrestrials

i know alot of you cant swallow it, but thats ok
this was for those who already knew the truth, im just reminding you that your on the right track

think "Aliens" and all this politics media crap becomes Obsolete



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:29 PM
link   
reply to post by sadchild01
 


Thats the whole point however and is exactly why Russias objection to the missile shields are strictly for show anyway.

The Soviet forces can easily sauturate the system without even having to cruise missile them to death anyway. AT BEST they interceptors can pick off ten missiles but more likely under current operational scenarios 5



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:31 PM
link   
Unless you've actually been to Russia you likely won't 'get it'. And you'll write-off Russia's move with cynicism and doubt. Russia is bare-assed naked to an invasion. There is virtually nothing --- in the way of natural barriers --- to stop a large scale invasion. Russia has always been particularly paranoid about this. Especially post-WWII. Also, they've sufffered the consequences of an arms race and likely don't care for a repeat (Although the outcome of the next one may be very different than the last).

The Russ v. USA mindset is so 1950's. The world is an entirely different place. Sure, Russia (and China) want to cement their respective places in the world scheme-of-things but that doesn't mean we're still in a Khrushchev-esque confrontational posture. The PTB want it that way. There are hundreds-of-billions of dollars up for grabs in an arms race. They undoubtedly get Docker-tents just thinking about it. Screw live-and-let-live. No money to be made in that.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:36 PM
link   
reply to post by FredT
 


problem seems to be that USA is trying to surround and bait Russia



Soviet forces


what ?? are you living in 1976 ?





Russias objection to the missile shields are strictly for show anyway.


Russia does not like forces standing its backyard .... particularly with USA trying to implicitly control central asain gas/oil reserves(thus afghan war 2001) b

refer PNAC and brezinski 's 'the grand chessboard' calls for surrounding and destroying Russia by instigating civil wars in it .
the current US influence is one of the objectives stated in the book ' the grand chessboard '




[edit on 28-1-2009 by sadchild01]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by sadchild01


Soviet forces


what ?? are you living in 1976 ?



Actually under Putin, it seems the old CCCP is alive and well under the guise of Democracy. The last few years we have seen a rise in rhetoric than is very SOviet-eqe.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:47 PM
link   
reply to post by jtma508
 




Unless you've actually been to Russia you likely won't 'get it'. And you'll write-off Russia's move with cynicism and doubt. Russia is bare-ass'd naked to an invasion. There is virtually nothing --- in the way of natural barriers --- to stop a large scale invasion.



Right! Napoleon. Hitler. Napoleon actually passed the gates of Moscow, Hitler’s forward units got close enough to spit on them. But whereas Napoleon was defeated by the Russian winter and the merciless burning of the city by the unaffected royal elite, so it was the tenacious holding of Stalingrad by Stalin - a Red Army soldier even looking back could be shot on the spot by a political Commissar - turned the war in Europe against the Germans.




Russia has always been paranoid about this. Especially post - WWII. Also, they've suffered the consequences of an arms race and likely don't care for a repeat (Although the outcome of the next one may be very different than the last). The Russ v. USA mind set is so 1950's. The world is an entirely different place.



Aside from normal human greed and the bluster of the spoils of war, the Russians took over East Europe to form just such a barrier. A trip wire. The Baltic states, Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. Czechoslovakia was last to go behind the Iron Curtain and Austria the first to emerge from it. The Truman Doctrine blocked the USSR move into Greece and Turkey. I believe it was 1949 before the US got the USSR out of Iran.

Much like the Chinese, the Russians (USSR) were able to field a large army, but it was always poorly trained, under equipped and lacked a good officer corps. But it suited American capitalists to hold up the USSR and China as IMMINENT threats to America and to justify the ever rising DoD budgets. Just as the CIA did not or could not tell the truth about Saddam’s WMDs, so also the CIA was caught by total surprise when the USSR dissolved in 1991. The CIA was part and parcel of the hoodwinking of the US taxpaying public.




Sure, Russia (and China) want to cement their respective places in the world scheme-of-things but that doesn't mean we're still in a Khrushchev-esque confrontational posture. The PTB want it that way. There are hundreds- of -billions of dollars up for grabs in an arms race. They undoubtedly get Docker-tents just thinking about it. Screw live- and- let- live. No money to be made in that.



Right on! And I have little hope the man I voted for can change the way it is in W-DC. It makes me gloomy to see that the masked robbers posing as pharmaceuticals are not worried about a Democrat’s health care reform or Pfizer would not be buying Wyeth for $48 billion.

We must CUT the current DoD in HALF! If we are to survive as a free nation and not a nation of credit card share-croppers. We must raise the taxes on everyone, but most of all, on the R&Fs! Rich and famous.

We cannot get out of 28 years of Reagan and 2 Bushes without PAIN. Hey I don’t count Clinton because Newt Gingrich took Congress away from him in 1994. Remember that? Contract with America. And the GOP held Congress until 2006. Let’s give credit where it is due. This is a Neo Con, Free Market, Reagan and Bush grand debacle - economic free fall - unequaled in the history of MAN! Thank you Milton Friedman!

Pain?
How about we start with gasoline rationing? Say 20 gallons a month per family. More only if you can prove necessity. How about compulsory buying US Savings bonds with 10% of your wages? Pegged at 3% plus the COLA. How about cutting back all the owner occupied home mortgages to 5%! How about firing the top management team of any Fortune 1000 company that fails to make a profit? Or exports one more dollar overseas. And not allowing any of them to take a job above bus-boy. And etc.

TAXES.
2009 Americans are tax WIMPS! Did you know the TOP tax bracket rate between 1965 and 1981 was SEVENTY (70%) PERCENT or more? That in 1945, the last year of WW2, the top rate was NINETY-FOUR (94%) PERCENT? It costs money to win a war! It costs money run a country! You anti tax guys today are wimps!
www.truthandpolitics.org...

[edit on 1/28/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:01 PM
link   
To those saying that Russia couldn't get their missiles operational in time and thus offered this "olive branch" - read up on what Iskander is. Iskander systems have been operational for some time now and it would not be too difficult for Russia to relocate some to Kaliningrad.

I don't believe Russia seriously considered placing the missiles there. This was all a political game planned out in advance, in anticipation of Obama taking power. First Russia gets the word out about the missiles, then waits for reaction, then waits until Obama gets into the White House and offers a compromise. Now the ball is in Obama's court, and it is up to him to make a decision on the future state of the ABM dispute.



As for the ABM system - it is by now well known that it is not some lousy 10 or 20 interceptors that Russia is concerned about. The concern is about America's willingness to build up its military presence in Eastern Europe - and not just any military presence but for the purposes of strategic nuclear capabilities (offensive or defensive). Who knows what Bush's team planned as a follow up to these interceptors - but the first step is always the hardest. Once the stand-off starts it can spiral out of control very quickly with each side countering the other's moves. This is what Russia desperately wanted to avoid, while the US appeared so eager to pursue for some reason.



Now it is time for Obama to set his priorities straight. What is more important - the ABM system meant for no other reason than to anger Russia, or mutual cooperation to pursue economic and social goals instead of idiotic military charades.

You can be sure of one thing though - if US decides to continue to aggressively pursue military expansion around Russia, Russia will have no choice but to react with respective counter measures. This has nothing to do with CCCP, Putin, Communists, or some other absurd theories, and everything to do with national defense and strategic perceptions associated with the notion of "sphere of influence". Look south of the US mainland and what do you see? Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela. How comfortable do you feel with those "rogues" getting cozy with Russia, in terms of eye for an eye for US's alliances with Russia's neighbors?

[edit on 28-1-2009 by maloy]




top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join