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The Bible and aliens...

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posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by jhova

(http//:ufoartwork.com) pay close attention to the paintings with Jesus in them, and other paintings from the 12th 13th and 14th centuries.

CHECK OUT THE SITE!!And then holla at ya boy!!




That site is nothing new. It has been discussed to nauseam on ATS. So I am very familiar with its content.




posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 03:51 PM
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Here are some points I made in an old thread in which someone tried to explain away these things, he didn't convince me and seemed to dissappear in the middle of the discussion.

(The quotes are translations from the original Hebrew)

"And the Deity Yahweh planted an orchard
In Eden, in the east;
And he placed there the Adam
Whom He had created.
And the Deity Yahweh
Caused to grow from the ground
Every tree that is pleasent to the sight
And good for eating;
And the Tree of Life was in the orchard
And the Tree of Knowing good and evil...
And the Deity Yahweh took the Adam
And placed him in the Garden of Eden
To work it and to keep it.
And the Deity Yahweh
Commanded the Adam, saying:
"Of every tree of the orchard eat you shall;
but of the Tree of Knowing good and evil
thou shalt not eat of it;
for on the day that thou eatest therof
thou shalt surely die." "

"Yahweh took the Adam and placed him in the garden to work it and to keep it." Why did god create the Adam? God wanted a gardener. He gives no other reason for creating him.

God even LIED to Adam, saying that "on the day that thou eatest therof [the Tree of Knowing] thou shalt surely die." God wanted to keep his worker dumb using lies of death to scare him from attempting to eat the fruit.

"And the Serpent... said unto the woman [Eve]:
"Hath the Deity indeed said
'Ye shall not eat of any tree of the orchard'?"
And the woman said unto the Serpent:
"Of the fruits of the trees of the orchard
eat we may;
it is of the fruit of the tree in the
midst of the orchard that the Deity hath said:
'Ye shall not eat of it, neither touch it,
lest ye die.' "
And the Serpent said unto the woman:
"Nay, ye will surely not die;
It is that the Deity doth know
that on the day ye eat therof
your eyes will be opened
and ye will be as the Deity-
knowing good and evil."
And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat
And that it was lustful to behold;
And the tree was desirable to make one wise;
And she took of its fruit and did eat,
And gave also to her mate with her, and he ate.
and the eyes of both of them were opened,
And they knew that they were naked;
And they sewed fig leaves together,
And made themselves loincloths."

Now this "serpent" is always believed to be the devil... why? This serpent came along and told the truth! This serpent wanted Adam and Eve to become knowledgable of who and what they were. This serpent set them free from the blindness and toil that the other deity enforced. Thats not evil! Thats helpful and even shows caring.

I would like to explain sometihng about the word "adam". Do you notice how Adam is never refered to as just "Adam"? (The Englsih translations are wrong btw) He is always called "the Adam" indicating that this is not his name as such but something else that the gods have shall we say "labeled" him?
The term "adama" originally meant earth or soil, but more specifically dark-red soil. Like the parallel Akkadian word adamatu (dark red earth), the Hebrew term adama and the Hebrew word for red (adom) stem from the words for blood: adamu, dam. When the Bible calls the being created by god "the Adam" it employs a favorite Summerian linguistic play of double meanings. "The Adam" could mean "the one from the earth" (Earthling), "the one made of the dark red soil" and "the one made of blood"
God did not name his creation as he would something he loved, it is just a scientific label that was carried over in the translations. The Adam was no more than a tool to his god. (At this point in time at least).

"And the Deity Yahweh planted an orchard
In Eden, in the east;
And he placed there "the one created from blood"
Whom He had created.
And the Deity Yahweh
Caused to grow from the ground
Every tree that is pleasent to the sight
And good for eating;
And the Tree of Life was in the orchard
And the Tree of Knowing good and evil...
And the Deity Yahweh took "the one created from blood"
And placed him in the Garden of Eden
To work it and to keep it.
And the Deity Yahweh
Commanded "the one created from blood", saying:
"Of every tree of the orchard eat you shall;
but of the Tree of Knowing good and evil
thou shalt not eat of it;
for on the day that thou eatest therof
thou shalt surely die." "

God doesn't sound like much of a "father" to Adam when translated fully does he? Adam was not WHO he was, Adam was WHAT he was.

Eve means both "she of life" and "she of rib", because the word for both "rib" and "life" are the same word in Hebrew. Hence the simple mistranslation, Eve was made from Adams life and not his rib (which makes more sense in genetic terms).

So lets recap: On one hand we have "god", the so called one almighty loving being that created his children to love for all eternity. The one who in the bible lied and threatened with death and tried to keep his children docile and unknowing so they would keep his garden for him and then expelled them wanting nothing more to do with them when became "knowledgable". When god found out that Adam and Eve had eaten of the fruit he complains about thhe event to other unseen deities using the plurals "us". Obviously "god" didn't want this to happen, all he wanted was us to keep working his garden.

On the other hand we have "Satan" the evil lord of hell who likes to torture and corrupt blah blah blah. If this was really Satan then we ALL owe him one, without him we might still be working gods garden, this serpent never did anything evil, he helped Adam and Eve and freed them from the labor of the Deity Yahweh.

This doesn't sound like the conventional story of Creation but I havent changed/altered/edited anything, i have merely read it more clearly and with a more open mind and have seen that not all things make sense. If these two beings really are God and Satan (which I don't believe for a second) I know who I like the most and its not the Deity that wanted us to be his docile workers.

Why did the angels and god and all of heaven want humans to be dumb and "unknowledgable" ??
Surely thats not very angelic or godlike and certainly not very loving! Once Adam and Eve became smart god didnt want anything to do with humans and expelled them since they were not dumb anymore...

And about that Tree it is not knowledge of good and evil!

What happened to Adam and Eve when they ate the fruit?? Did the suddenly know what was good and evil?

No! All they learned was that they were naked!

Think about this, what could possibly cause someone to not know the difference between being naked and being clothed? Simple: Man wasn't evolved enough at the time to need clothes. At this time man was no more than a domesticated animal to the gods and therefore didn't need clothes.

Early Sumerian pictures show that before Adam and Eve man served the gods naked. No matter what they were doing Man was always naked. Man needed no clothes because Man was not a civilized race, merely an "upgraded" animal (humans were in the process of natural evolution at the time, but were millions of years to primitive to be of any use).

Why then would man being naked cause so much trouble for god?

The Tree of Knowledge, thats its name. What does it mean by knowledge?

Does this phrase sound familiar: "And Adam knew his wife"... in the Bible when people had sex it was refered to as KNOWING them, hence the Tree of KNOWING, the Tree of Procreation.

After eating the fuit they were aware of their sex organs for the first time! The tree had given Adam and Eve the ability to procreate.

Oh and about Lilith: Sumerian texts clearly state (and illustrations show) that there were many humans before and during the time of Adam. So I find it entirely plausable that Adam had a wife (for want of a better word) prior to Eve. Adam and Eve I believe are commonly depicted as the first people because they were the first to escape the slavery and become proper free people so to speak.
This also explains why Lilith is said to kidnap children: she never ate the fruit of Knowing (procreation) and therefore could not have children of her own.

The Serpent was obviously not just a snake because he could talk to Eve, and knew the truth about the matter of "knowing" and was of such high stature that he unhesitantly exposed the deity as a lair. In most (if not all) ancient traditions the main god always fought a serpent, a tale that undoubtably goes back to these Sumerian gods.

Once again Sumerian and Biblical plays of words occur again. The Biblical word for "Serpent" is nahash which does mean snake. But the word stems from the root NHSH which means "to decipher, to find out", so that nahash could also mean "he who deciphers, he who finds things out" which is a fitting epitaph for Enki, the chief scientist of the gods (Nefilim), the God of Knowledge.

It was Enki who suggested and undertook the creation of primitive workers. As the Sumerian text recorded the course of human events, Enki as a rule emerges as Mankinds protagonist, Enlil (biblical Yahweh) as its strict discipliner if not outright antagonist. The role of a deity wishing to keep the new humans sexually suppressed, and of a deity willing and capable of bestowing upon mankind the fruit of "knowing" fit Enlil and Enki perfectly.

There was a depiction unearthed in Mesopotamia that strongly suggests the biblical tale: a serpent entwined in a tree pointing at its fruit. High above the tree are celestial symbols: the planet of crossing which stood for Anu (the highest of the gods) and the cresent moon, which was the symbol of Enki.

There is even a Mesopotamian version of this in which it is clearly stated that it was Enki that gave Adapa (biblical Adam) the "knowledge"

In Mari a pictorial tale was unearthed engraved on a cylinder seal containing a picture that may well be an illustration of the Mesopotamian version of the tale of Genesis. In the engraving a great god is seated on high ground rising from watery waves-an obvious depiction of Enki (who's symbol is the moon, the controller of the tides). Water spouting serpents protrude from each side of his throne.
Flanking him are two tree like gods. The one on the right, whose branches have penis shaped ends, holds up a bowl that presumably contains the fruit of life.
The one on the left, that has vagina shaped ends, offers fruit bearing branches, representing the tree of "knowing", the god given right of procreation.
Standing next to Enki is another god who is showing anger towards Enki, obviously this in Enlil (Yahweh).

Gods through the ages are refered to by different people in different times by different names, such as here. They are mostly the same deities throughout ancient history just with different names. If you compare them you will see that they are indeed identicle deties.

People take the Genesis as being the first book every writen and the only book to recount the events in it. This is wrong for many reasons and the most obvious (to me) is this: Genesis starts at the beginning of the creation of the solar system and of the (so called) first people. The language at this time however was Sumerian and Genesis is written in Hebrew, a language that didn't exist at the time so how was it written? Obviously Sumerian texts that were written during or shortly after the events were used to write the original Genesis. There are also many other texts in different languages recorded by different peoples from different perspectives that describe the same events in different ways. An example of this is that some people believe that the Garden of Eden is simply a metaphor for a state of being yet other texts from the Sumerian age describe it in detail as being an actual location... but of course the people who worship the bible could never accept the words from another source. In my opinion this is where faith blurs into ingorance.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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What you want, a noble peace prize or somethin?You are talking about a simple creature (humans) trying to describe creation the creation and universe and everything (a process that we will never know about), of course it is going to sound funny, especially back then.No one has addressed the WEBSITE!!!!!!!



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by jhova
On that particular website(http//:ufoartwork.com) pay close attention to the paintings with Jesus in them, and other paintings from the 12th 13th and 14th centuries.But wait, we don't want to talk about all of the "irrelavent evidence" that just links the phenomena as a whole.CHECK OUT THE SITE!!And then holla at ya boy!!


What you need to remember is that the book of Ezekiel was written approximately 571 B.C.. Any painting with Jesus on that web site was painted 2000 years after Ezekiel’s account. The painter was probably influenced by what they read in the Old Testament. This is not a photograph it’s a painting. It was painted 1500 years after the birth of Christ. The painter wanted to show that God was present during this event, and he decided to depict him as Ezekiel’s saw him; he could have used the image of the burning bush to convey this thought but obviously decided against it. Classic case of which came first the chicken or the egg.



Below is a painting is called "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". It was painted in the 15th century.




[Edited on 20-4-2004 by kinglizard]



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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faceless: that was a great sumary of sumerian/genesis cosmology and synergy. thanks!
and kinglizard finally addressed that beloved website of jhova! thank gawd! (course the other guy did say that those paintings w/ ufo has already been discussed around here...) but if he didn't mention them i would have. and the nephilim which in my bible are called "gods"
my beliefs:
we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
humanity is a genetic experiement done by a collective of "non-humans" using this planet's simians as root stock and then mixing in various alien flavas.
God is "The Force" like obi wan says it, flows through us and binds us.
The bible is mostly bull# given by that jealous sumerian "god" ywh.
no proof, only belief.
aliens in the bible? yup. ezekial is the obvious one but i prefer genesis 6 better...



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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You pointed out ONE out of all of those paintings, and then came up with that...the object looks nothing like what Ezekiel described.The Wheel, remember.That object REALLY looks like a spaceship of some kind (definite structure, portholes??).And the artist wants you to pay specific attention to the guy looking up.Only prophets and the Israelites descendants were supposed to be able to see God. Even though that totally looks like a spaceship and the Ezekiel's wheel description is definitley something different, what about the other paintings.You are like all the other skeptics, you try to point out one little thing, and try to use that to kill the whole phenomena, when there are more instances than just that painting.What about the others?That must have been the easiest one that you THOUGHT you could "debunk", so you bring it to the table with a crappy explanation.Just face it, it really happened!!You have got the smoking gun in your hand, you just don't want to believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 20-4-2004 by jhova]



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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ATS is really starting to get to me, I gave everybody a simple answer straight form my own NIV bible saying exactly what the creatures were and what their cloud was.
Now to mr street gangster boy that speaks tounges, PLEASE quit chewing people out when they come up with hard evidence against your thoughts! It annoys me that you call us closed minded, most all of us say there probably is life out there beyond earth, but it's not menioned in the bible. Also, quit calling me a punk and trying to be all gangster tough cause my stomach hurts from laughing.
I really wish people took a look at the other arguments side, thats what your supposed to do when writing a persuasive essay, or in a real live debate and I see no differince between that and a website forum, I considered your idea for a long time, I was convinced ezekiel saw a UFO but I started seroiusly looking into it and I realized I was wrong. So mr crip gangster, please try to at least think about the stuff I've given you straight from the holy book!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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What are you talking about, I wasn't even talking to you, and you haven't given me anything that I thought was worth anything!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:36 AM
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you are talking out of the side of your mouth!You haven't proven anything with any scripture! All I have to say is http//:www.ufoartwork.com?But I know, the simple fact that Flying objects that look like modern day ufo's today are described in paintings, and in the word itself!CHECK THE ENTIRE SET OF PAINTINGS, and then we will talk. JUst because you got scared and could not stick to your heart, and changed your feelings because someone told you that they did not like your theory, or that you were wrong!It is okayy...Me...I fear no one!!!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by glitch314
ATS is really starting to get to me, I gave everybody a simple answer straight form my own NIV bible saying exactly what the creatures were and what their cloud was.
Now to mr street gangster boy that speaks tounges, PLEASE quit chewing people out when they come up with hard evidence against your thoughts! It annoys me that you call us closed minded, most all of us say there probably is life out there beyond earth, but it's not menioned in the bible. Also, quit calling me a punk and trying to be all gangster tough cause my stomach hurts from laughing.
I really wish people took a look at the other arguments side, thats what your supposed to do when writing a persuasive essay, or in a real live debate and I see no differince between that and a website forum, I considered your idea for a long time, I was convinced ezekiel saw a UFO but I started seroiusly looking into it and I realized I was wrong. So mr crip gangster, please try to at least think about the stuff I've given you straight from the holy book!


You think you can solve aproblem like this with just one simple thing?Or one scripture that you think means something that it doesn't?And I am not a crip you lame!I live in Indiana, there are relatively no crips in Indiana, just Folks and Lords...since you want ot go there!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:48 AM
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maybe the reason no one goes to your precious site is cuz its not hyperlinked correctly.. its not actually a live link they way you spelled it.
here ya go:
www.ufoartwork.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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What do I look like, your maid, do it yourself!!And by the way.. what the hell are you doing up this late on a site like this!!And what is your take on the subject since you all bright eyed and bushy taled?



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 09:22 AM
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Jhova, you're being taken for a ride.

Aliens, God, Evolution, the Bible, Paintings.....
Whatever the discussion, people are not going to change there stances, such is there hatred for religion or anything based on faith.

In Carl Sagan's "Contact", the main character, Ellie, is quite clearly against the idea of faith, but on her return from her journey, ironically, had no evidence, and so relied on those around her to have faith in what she was saying.


Unless we experience things first hand, we will always speculate on the information provided. Our willingness to believe is based on our experiences of others. I can no more accept the argument of others unless they can accept mine.

I have enjoyed being a spectator to this thread, more so because it covers religious works of art and the like, and I have always had a fascination in to what exactly was being depicted.

Personally, I do believe there is something in it, if all the images on UFOARTWORK are taken as genuine. However, I would not call this conclusive or in anyway evidence of Alien visitation or existence.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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All of you skeptics need to take a look at the thread posted by Cardu above!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by glitch314
ATS is really starting to get to me, I gave everybody a simple answer straight form my own NIV bible saying exactly what the creatures were and what their cloud was.
Now to mr street gangster boy that speaks tounges, PLEASE quit chewing people out when they come up with hard evidence against your thoughts! It annoys me that you call us closed minded, most all of us say there probably is life out there beyond earth, but it's not menioned in the bible. Also, quit calling me a punk and trying to be all gangster tough cause my stomach hurts from laughing.
I really wish people took a look at the other arguments side, thats what your supposed to do when writing a persuasive essay, or in a real live debate and I see no differince between that and a website forum, I considered your idea for a long time, I was convinced ezekiel saw a UFO but I started seroiusly looking into it and I realized I was wrong. So mr crip gangster, please try to at least think about the stuff I've given you straight from the holy book!
You are correct. The Ezekiel encounter was not a alien visitation no matter how many people translate the Bible to say what they are looking for. Too many people set aside biblical symbolism in favor of their own sci-fi symbolism.

Here's the thing I find funny...a couple posts above somebody spent alot of time posting a big huge "translation" of some parts of Genesis and though it probably took alot of work and brainpower to make the connections and conclusions he came to...I fail to see how his translation has been overlooked by THE JEWS THEMSELVES for several thousand years. I mean...really...if his Genesis theory was translated correctly then why haven't the Jews been an Alien worshipping cult for a couple thousand years? How is it a UFO/OIL believer can scoop up the scriptures and discover the "true" translation of the JEWS OWN language and symbolism? Thank Jehovah that there's UFO believers to happen upon something the Jews created from their Judaic culture and translate their language for them...


Is their UFO's in art? I'm not convinced. I've seen alot of the art featuring UFO's and most, like the scriptures, are either exaggerated or interpreted the way the viewer wants it to be interpreted. Not convinced. No proof either way...I keep my mind open to all theories and possibilities but there does have to be a line drawn before I open myself up to sheer stupidity and in the end...look stupid myself.

I'm going to lay my money on Jewish scholars and their translations and interpretations before I believe somebody from ATS, with their intense, all consuming desires to see Aliens.

[Edited on 4-21-2004 by Preest]



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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true preest, ive learnd over time that many people try to alter the bible just to create conspiracy. only to make the world a little more PARANOID.
theres even some on ats!!!!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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First of all, oh boy going to all that trouble trying to explain something did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, AND HE HASN"T PROVED ANYTHING TO ME.YOU HAVEN"T PROVED ANYTHING EITHER!!WHo is to say who didn't see anything!?Who's to say that the "visions"were not added after the things actually happened. Dude, you really have no idea what you are talking about and you are really an IGNORANT, SELF CONSCIOUS human being, with no guts! I should ask you how the weather is the Nebulia Star system, and you would probaly try to tell me that it is hot, when you have neve been there!?Quit trying to erase things that have been placed there for a reason.Don't let science get you in a mentality that will get you in a sh1tload of trouble!!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:39 PM
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And the original clay tablets from which Genesis was taken was in Sumeria and were in the Sumerian language, not Hebrew you little bit...

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by jhova]



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:41 PM
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As a matter of fact, it is not even clear what that dude's point is if it is relevant, and why he has so much time to keep typing that long a$$ post!!I really wish he or she would quit it!







 
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