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Senator Warns White House Will 'Create Crisis' and 'Panic' to Push Stimulus

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posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I would guess that Wall Street is hedging bets that the companies will go down. And if there is some giant conspiracy to keep the economy in the dumps, it wouldn't be government run, that's for sure.

And how exactly is it that Wall Street is "rewarding" these companies?

[edit on 1/28/2009 by Irish M1ck]




posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


This is the part I have to question you on


plans as a traitor, unAmerican, or as simply "playing politics" (which seems to be Obama's favorite slur against anyone who has the balls to call him out on something or disagree with one of his stated ideas.)

I can swear traitor, unAmerican was Bush and companies lines not Obamas. If you can show me any where Obama has said these things to promote his agenda I will stand corrected. Other wise pleae edit yourself to factual statements.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


It was Bush. Here's what Limbaugh and the people of this board are doing:

They come up with ridiculous conspiracies (like Obama is intentionally scaring people to keep the economy down), and then when we/Obama shoot it down, they say we can't take criticism. Yeah, we criticized Bush, after he tortured, after he led us into war under false pretenses, after he wiretapped the country.

We criticized Bush for things that happened, not for crap that we made up because it fit our agenda. Even SkepticOverloard is buying into.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


Look at their shares immediately following posting a negative report or a report of job cuts in the past month or so. With the exception of companies which are going bankrupt or are defaulting on their debt, notice that most companies which post negative earnings reports and/or report a large layoff plan see their shares rise inexplicably while companies which have been posting decent profits (what few there are) are actually seeing their share prices go down. It makes no sense.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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You poeple don't realize that the world economy actually would have collapsed had they not passed the last bailout. European banks were demanding upwards of 200 billion from U.S Banks due to derivatives collapsing. Had they not paid, then indeed the world's financial system would have stopped dead in it's tracks. They did what they did because they had too. I know some of you want systematic destruction so that you can finally be able to use you BOB's and armeggedon plans, but fortunately our leaders actually want more than that for us (or that's what we would have had already).



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


This is the part I have to question you on


plans as a traitor, unAmerican, or as simply "playing politics" (which seems to be Obama's favorite slur against anyone who has the balls to call him out on something or disagree with one of his stated ideas.)

I can swear traitor, unAmerican was Bush and companies lines not Obamas. If you can show me any where Obama has said these things to promote his agenda I will stand corrected. Other wise pleae edit yourself to factual statements.


You snipped the first part of my quote where I stated:


It will also be interesting to see how quickly the Obama administration takes another play from the Bush playbook and starts labeling

It was simply a prediction on my part, a bet that we'll start hearing this rhetoric from this administration just as we did from the previous one when dissenting opinions begin to be voiced more often.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Could be that people realise that when a company that is crashing closes the stores and laysoff people in the stores that aren't selling anything the profits are going to come back to them as they cut there losses.
If you have ten stores the same two aren't selling anything close the two stores transfer the products to the other eight layoff the employees of those two stores you now have two less rents to pay,two stores of employees less to pay and the other eight stores are restocked without buying any more products to put on the shelfs. It called down sizeing and it is pretty common in recessions.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Can you source that? Forgive me if I don't take your word for that. That would have had to happen with a large amount of companies for it to mean anything.

Also, what does that have to do with the White House?



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


I'll do one better than that. I'll source direct evidence of manipulation of the market by the government in regards to financial stocks and these damn bailouts.

www.marketwatch.com...

Wells Fargo & Co. on Wednesday posted a quarterly loss of about $2.6 billion as the banking giant was hit by credit write-downs while losses at Wachovia, which it recently acquired, topped $11 billion.
But shares of Wells Fargo shares soared more than 20% at last check as financial stocks rallied on talk the Obama administration is close to a plan to set up a "bad bank" to get toxic assets off troubled banks' balance sheets and jumpstart lending.


Those shares are actually up 25% as of me typing this. What does this demonstrate? The deposits of the banks and the people's money in said banks are no safer under these plans, but the banks sure as hell are profiting off of the plan. Not only are they being rewarded by the administration for posting a huge loss via a bailout, but the administration conveniently talks up the plan ahead of time to boost their stock prices as well as to give a point of reference to direct the attention of Americans toward. They say "Look, just expressing our idea of a bad bank is already having a positive impact on the financial instutions! Imagine what actually enacting the plan will do to strengthen them."

It's crap, pure and simple man. Do you question whether or not the secretary of the treasury is in charge of the government's Plung Protection Team? Do you question whether or not this entity is essentially an extension of the sitting president's administration, able to ensure that on the surface anything needed to boost one of his plans (a crash or an upswing) takes place when needed? My God man, Obama's treasury Sec. is Tim Geither... a man who was president of the NY branch of the Federal Reserve! He was second in power on the FOMC only to Ben Bernanke, one of the great orchestrators of this recession.

How in the hell can a man so deeply involved with the manipulation of the markets and the creation of this recession under Bush be trusted to not be involved in the same damn thing now that he's running the show under Obama? Did he magically get injected with decency and morality when Obama touched his shoulder with the sword? I sincerely doubt it.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by lernmore

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Wait a second .


So there is really nothing at all to be concerned about?

All the "crises" and "panic" and 70,000 jobs disappearing on Monday is all part of a sham to get Congress to sign a bill?


The problem is, when the president says, "If you don't pass this bailout package by next week, the worlds economy will collapse" it gets shoved through with no oversight.



No doubt... I understand that. So why don't they push for oversight instead of acting as if the President is manufacturing fear?

I'm all for oversight.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

No doubt... I understand that. So why don't they push for oversight instead of acting as if the President is manufacturing fear?

I'm all for oversight.



On this I may agree with you. They're probably "acting as if the President is manufacturing fear" largely because that was the same reaction Bush recieved over the first round of bailouts. I'll say this much, there are a handfull of representatives, mostly all Conservatives, who have remained steadfast in their "NO" votes for TARP and now for this stimulus package. Those men have my thanks and my respect. The rest of them, from both parties and from the top (POTUS) all the way to the bottom (spindoctoring, doublespeaking spokespeople) are mongrel dogs, pure and simple.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Hasn't that struck you as just a bit odd that companies are being financially rewarded for reporting horrible earnings and laying off thousands? This is a new phenomenon


Not really. When they lay off their help they cut their costs and increase their profitability. It is simple really. They are selling less, so they cut production and costs, including employee costs and the value of the company goes up.

They would be incompetent if they did not do this. The only purpose for a company to exist is to produce a profit.

When there are not enough jobs, it is not the fault of the companies producing products and services. It means that spending has decreased. It means that it would be stupid to produce products you can't sell or have employees to produce products you can't sell.

Obama and Congress are not going to get in front of a camera and say to people, you should have never been given credit in the first place and you are as much to blame as the banks who never should have given it to you. The truth won't get them elected.

Businesses are not in the business of providing welfare. A business finds a need and fills it. If they are competent they produce just enough to fill the need and employ just enough people to produce the amount of product needed.

We the people went nuts because the banks gave people credit who never should have had it in the first place. Of course people who should not have credit, once they got it, used it to such excess they could no longer make the payments to the lenders. When that happened the lenders of course went belly up.

There is a shared responsibility here. The consumers of the credit are just as culpable as the lenders. They knew or should have known that they could not pay the money back. They borrowed it anyway. The lenders knew or should have known they were taking an unacceptable risk.

The Politicians of course make it sound like it was all the Big Bad Banks fault and that you share no blame so they can get your votes. They will never admit that "We the People" share equal responsibility for borrowing more than we could afford to pay back.

Most of the companies that produce a product or service are victims. They had no way of knowing what the lenders and borrowers were doing. The lenders knew they were screwing up when they did it. The borrowers knew they were screwing up when they went on a borrowing and spending spree.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


It's crap, pure and simple man. Do you question whether or not the secretary of the treasury is in charge of the government's Plung Protection Team? Do you question whether or not this entity is essentially an extension of the sitting president's administration, able to ensure that on the surface anything needed to boost one of his plans (a crash or an upswing) takes place when needed? My God man, Obama's treasury Sec. is Tim Geither... a man who was president of the NY branch of the Federal Reserve! He was second in power on the FOMC only to Ben Bernanke, one of the great orchestrators of this recession.

How in the hell can a man so deeply involved with the manipulation of the markets and the creation of this recession under Bush be trusted to not be involved in the same damn thing now that he's running the show under Obama? Did he magically get injected with decency and morality when Obama touched his shoulder with the sword? I sincerely doubt it.


Exactly..

The very thing that most people fear is the very thing that MUST happen in order to turn this mess around in a reasonable length of time...The markets MUST be allowed to clear all this bad debt before ANYTHING will work....as painful as this will be for some, it's the ONLY way..

These are ALL the same players that helped put us in this mess and now we expect these same idiots who lined their pockets at our expense to to bail us out...ain't gonna happen....



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6

The Politicians of course make it sound like it was all the Big Bad Banks fault and that you share no blame so they can get your votes. They will never admit that "We the People" share equal responsibility for borrowing more than we could afford to pay back.


Yes, however what most don't realize is that it was CONGRESS (Frank, Dodd, amongst others) that pressured Fanny and Feddy to push these rediculous loans out in the first place....and recieved great kickbacks for doing so....the originators greedily went along with it and here we are...The whole entire system is rotten and needs to fail or need to be "replaced"...I am actually very gratfeul that this system of lies is failing..both political and financial

edit for sp


[edit on 28-1-2009 by RolandBrichter]

[edit on 28-1-2009 by RolandBrichter]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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It just passed 244 to 188 my black 8 ball from K-Mart is saying.... we is screwed.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Wait a second...


So there is really nothing at all to be concerned about?

All the "crises" and "panic" and 70,000 jobs disappearing on Monday is all part of a sham to get Congress to sign a bill?


Oh well if that's the case then I guess the world ISNT melting down.

Silly me for thinking that the financial crisis was real.


So hilarious that the "loyal opposition" stood behind the mass hysteria of WMD, but now, with the world collapsing all around us, they want to act as if the President is manufacturing fear? Really?





How is spending 100's of BILLIONS that we simply do not have going to solve ANYTHING?



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Well while that is true we already got that from the first bail out scam.

I can tell you this much, if this bail out doesn't get out in time our economy will collapse and specially our government will collapse.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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You guys really need to stop the whole Fear Uncertainty and Doubt bus and pay attention to things like this:

www.recovery.gov...

Oversite? how about a listing of where the money is going available to the public.

Unlike bushie cronies who cant find $150B anywhere from the previous package. Its possible it was even embezzled.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


Is not about where the money is going and where is not, is the fact that America has no means to create wealth to pay for all this billions and trillions of dollars.

The economy will keep deteriorating at a rapid rate as it has been doing so far.

Any stimulus that will be passed without addressing the problems that cause the decline in the economy, the lost of jobs, industrial base and credit, will be like putting a band aid on a gushing wound.

Anybody that has a calculator or is good at math can add two and two and see that is not going to work.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I was vague in my reply, earlier a bunch of faux news junkies were squealing about oversight.

Cant get much more oversight with everything in view of the public.




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