Islam: An intolerant, inconsistent fallacy

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posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 04:58 AM
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So Illmatic, are you trying to say that Solarix is lying and that women in the Middle East are treated fairly and equally under Islam.

Refute away. Sure, you can change the argument around and try and focus on the injustices in Christianity and Judasim but this thread is about Islam. And even if you do try to shift the attention, the fact is that Judaism and Christianity are far more tolerant and accepting of women in these modern times.

So deny truth. Say that Islam doesn't treat women as second class citizens. Say that women don't lose their lives in the name of your tribal God.

www.eagle.ca...

The fact is that Islam is a filthy little religion where the treatment of women are concerned. It amazes me how Muslims hate the white man for past injustices whilst they're quite happy to place a whole half of their own people into slavery.




posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 05:23 AM
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the way Islam is PRACTICED IN THE MIDDLE EAST is for the most part disgracefull. I cannot believe that anyone would defend these PEOPLE. IMHO, and I admit - I have read little of the Koran - Islam is simply practiced incorrectly by many, much as christianity was during the inquisition.

The problem is, unlike all of these barbarians over in the middle east, (most) Christians and Jewish sects long since realized that this sort of behavior was wrong. Yet every one over there thinks everyone else is wrong. Worse yet, they consider the rest of the world infedels and thus their "unholy enemy."

I don't want to hear about Islam considering Christians as believing in the same god blah blah blah - the fact is, if it's in the Koran, they skip that part. They have a genuine HATE for any non Islamic male.

It is for this reason I fear that the next great world war may not be between nations, but creeds......I wonder who would win that one



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Underling
Solarix, worry not, paperclip is known to rush to the defense of muslims in every thread that concerns them. Islam is a religion bred on the back of war. A religion where their leaders in the very HOMELAND of their beliefs order them to kill innocent people, to use terror as a means of achieving victory. A religion where, as you put it, makes women worthless. Islam is the most hypocritical, perverse religious enigma in existance.


OMG Have you all forgotten how Hypocritical Christianity is and was. Selling peoples souls so they can get to heaven, painting on of Jesus closest companions Mary Magdalene and a prostitute, not to mentions using the bible to Justify Slavery. Its not Islam that is perverse its the people. Time and time again Mankind has used religion as a means of controlling people and going to War. The Crusades were fought so that Christians could rule Jerusalem. The pope at one time had his own Army . It scares me how ignorant and closed-minded people are theses days. Both religions Islam and Christianity had humble beginnings. But even elitist have used it to brainwash the masses. Get a clue before you make ignorant statements like this. Why dont you actually read the quran before you pass judgment!!!!! Most people dont even read the bible or the quran they only remember are verse that suites there needs.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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As I read these post trying to figure out how they relate to a religious conspiracy before I dumped it in BTS, the conspiracy became apparent. Solarix presented known facts about Islam and without having to spell out the attempts to cover it up, we were treated to a first hand demonstration.

Just goes to show ya that things aren't always as they appear and thats why I like to read a thread before dismissing it or acting on my first instinct.

I would ask that we keep it civil and lower the one-line replies to a minimum. If all you have is a quip or smart reply that does not add to the meat of the discussion, please keep it tp yourselves.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 11:16 AM
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It's lovely to see how the apologists for modern day Islam will try to divert attention from the issues of today by pointing to Jewish and Christian atrocities that occured centuries and even millenia ago.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen someone post a reference to the Crusades as a smokescreen defense to the atrocities committed in modern day Islam. Not only is this a totally irrelevant argument, but it's almost always made by a person who doesn't actually know a thing about the Crusades.

This thread is about the intolerance in modern day Islam. It's not about Christianity. It's not about Judaism.

The conspiracy comes when those who feel the need to defend the indefensible do so by throwing accusations at other religions that have nothing whatsoever to do with this topic. Two wrongs don't make a right. And when those two wrongs aren't even connected all the defendant is doing is making his own faith in his own religion look like it is based on hatred.

Now, for those defending Islam here, I am a neutral observer as far as religion is concerned. I have time for none of yours or anyone else's tribal god or your man-made faiths. The intolerance within religion is pertinent to my existence on this planet though. Your religions directly affect my life.

So I would like an answer to the statements posted by Solarix at the beginning of this thread. Refute the argument that concerns your religion without denigrating other religions that have no bearing on this topic. If you want to discuss the intolerance within Christianity go do so within another thread.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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I find this thread to be an ignorant attempt of generalizing an entire religion. You may not want to accept the comparison to Christianity and Judaism but they are there. Mistreatment of Women is not only an Islamic religious doctrine. The status of women in society has always been lower to men in all religions, the 3 mentioned above and others such as Hinduism. Women were always considered second to man, and a woman's humility in being modest and covering her body and respecting her man is not uncommon around the world. I suggest those of you who are ignorant in Islam, read the Koran completely before making broad statements. You will find that it is a book just like the torah, and bible used by men for their motives.

try reading this for a start: maybe you will understand the position of women in islam a little better.
Women In Islam

regarding Mohammed marrying a 10 year old girl...do your history research, you will see in all cultures during ancient times, girls were married at very young ages....and because someone was married did not mean they were sexually involved.. my grandmother was married at the age of 12, she was living with her husband and his family from that age, however she did not "know" her husband in "that" way until she was 16. I repeat again, this practice was and is common in many cultures, please don't bring this argument up again...there are many other issues in the Koran to choose from.

[Edited on 4-13-2004 by worldwatcher]



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Solarix
Is Islam a religion where you have to check "free-thinking" at the door and embrace a tyranical, murderous, intolerant worldview?


Not to offend anyone, but aren't all religions? To the best of my knowledge people have been murdered in the name of every religion, every religion believes that it is the ONLY correct one and every religion has a control mechanism (stick & carrot). As far as I'm concerned, those are the things that make such things religions.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Women were always considered second to man, and a woman's humility in being modest and covering her body and respecting her man is not uncommon around the world.



OK. You felt that you had to compare, but the comparison is weak. Christianity and Judaism have grown up. Amongst the vast majority of it's followers, women are being treated as equals - protestantism now has women preachers, women are not looked down on in the general society, laws for equal rights have been enacted. Yet none of this has occured in Islam.

And look at your statement again. "A womans humility"? "Respect for her man"? Maybe you should have written "respect for her man's religious conviction".
Why should a woman bow down before a man because his religion states that she is inferior? Even if she has chosen to follow that religion (which is very rare in Islam as people are indoctrinated from birth), what right does it give Islam to force it on the millions of other women who had no choice?

"Respect" is a strange choice of word. It denotes choice and clearly there is no choice in this instance.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 11:59 AM
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leveller you didn't read the link.

or your level of understanding is just not there.
you say Christianity and Judaism evolved, well so will Islam in time. You also seem to forget the many sects of Jews and Christians who still practice these methods of women covering themselves, not having jobs, being home to raise and have kids only...the orthodox jews, the romanian and greek christians and catholics whose women still cover their heads?

what right do you or anyone else have to judge these people, and their doctrines....it's just idiotic to argue that an entire religion is wrong because they are evolving slower than what you consider to be right and your ideals of what society should be.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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It is totally right if that religion affects my life in a detrimental way.
The same goes for Christianity and Judaism.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
It is totally right if that religion affects my life in a detrimental way.
The same goes for Christianity and Judaism.


that maybe true, but this isn't a thread about all religions and their "questionable" doctrines is it? NO it's a thread promoting ignorance on a singular religion. How does the mistreatment of women in Arab countries affect your life here in the USA, where women are free to practically walk around butt naked????

If it is just the mistreatment of women that you are against...again it is not only Islam that has these views, look around the world, all the tribal people, even in China and India where women are second class to men.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by Leveller
It is totally right if that religion affects my life in a detrimental way.
The same goes for Christianity and Judaism.


that maybe true, but this isn't a thread about all religions and their "questionable" doctrines is it? NO it's a thread promoting ignorance on a singular religion. How does the mistreatment of women in Arab countries affect your life here in the USA, where women are free to practically walk around butt naked????

If it is just the mistreatment of women that you are against...again it is not only Islam that has these views, look around the world, all the tribal people, even in China and India where women are second class to men.


IMO, this thread does nothing to promote ignorance - if anything it is DENYING IGNORANCE. Like this place is supposed to. The fact is that Islam IS the most represive. The FACT is that Islam IS the only one to promote TERRORISM! Name one Christian or Jewish sect that promotes death of ANY KIND IN THE MODERN ERA. You can't! The FACT is that Islam is used by many people to justify the unjustifiable.

I believe that Islam hit me preatty hard when I saw a bunch of Islamic practicing people on CNN CHEERING when they found out about 9/11. If something like that had happened in the Middle East, would the Christian world stand in applause? NO! The first thing that would have been done would be to organize some kind of relief fund!

As far as their women go, it concerns me that they can be stoned to death on an accusation! Yes, women elsewhere are mistreated - but who do you think stands out as being BY FAR the most ill treated? I'll give you one guess.

Why can't people just realize that THE WAY ISLAM IS PRACTICED IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS BACKWARDS AND BARBARIC! PERIOD! It does not mean that Islam it's self is bad, but it's evolution in it's followers over there is!



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
How does the mistreatment of women in Arab countries affect your life here in the USA, where women are free to practically walk around butt naked????



I wouldn't have a clue. I ain't a Yank.


But over here in the UK we live in a mixed society where these differences create tensions. And they are differences that are created by the ignorance of religion.



posted on Apr, 13 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by Leveller
It is totally right if that religion affects my life in a detrimental way.
The same goes for Christianity and Judaism.


that maybe true, but this isn't a thread about all religions and their "questionable" doctrines is it? NO it's a thread promoting ignorance on a singular religion. How does the mistreatment of women in Arab countries affect your life here in the USA, where women are free to practically walk around butt naked????

If it is just the mistreatment of women that you are against...again it is not only Islam that has these views, look around the world, all the tribal people, even in China and India where women are second class to men.


It is Islam Countries that have oil as almost their only Indutries. It is Islam that has the highest birth rates on the planet. It is Islam that has a mortal enemy, the hate of which it will not let go of. It is Islam that is expanding in all parts of the world. It is Islam that thinks I'm the Infidel. It is Islam that has no respect for what I might choose to worship. This is how it affects me and why I am concerned. Though I hold most religions in equal contempt, Islam is the very dangerous one right now and is worth disscussing.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Solarix
Is Islam a religion where you have to check "free-thinking" at the door and embrace a tyranical, murderous, intolerant worldview?


Not to offend anyone, but aren't all religions? To the best of my knowledge people have been murdered in the name of every religion, every religion believes that it is the ONLY correct one and every religion has a control mechanism (stick & carrot). As far as I'm concerned, those are the things that make such things religions.


well to the best of my understanding, i think buddhism is quite different. buddhist don't think they are the "one and only" religion. what they try to do instead is to let everyone reallize the truth behind life. to me, buddhism is a religion of truth, compassion and wisdom. and they never justify killing in the name of buddha or say non-beliver will burn in hell for all eternity

anyways..Islam. i think MOST muslims are downright idiotic. some muslims are good for they try to search for the truth and love other people in the name of allah, not kill. but for he most part, people take the koran too seriously, they tend to be brainwash by what is written down on a piece of paper



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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It is Islam Countries that have oil as almost their only Indutries. It is Islam that has the highest birth rates on the planet. It is Islam that has a mortal enemy, the hate of which it will not let go of. It is Islam that is expanding in all parts of the world. It is Islam that thinks I'm the Infidel. It is Islam that has no respect for what I might choose to worship. This is how it affects me and why I am concerned. Though I hold most religions in equal contempt, Islam is the very dangerous one right now and is worth disscussing.

Well said


Islam is slowly taking over Europe. I have heard that when England joined the EU, they were swarmed by Illegals from other countries. How will all the white Christians feel in 35 years when they are being killed by a bunch of holy war Islamic people? Being over here in the wild west (AKA - land of the free, home of the brave - good ol' USA) We don't see that imigration as much - our problem is with mainly Mexicans.

But you know what - at least they are Christian, and won't be killing me for practicing something different then them. At worst, they form gangs in ghettos like EVERY imigrant population does when they first arive. But I feel for you European Christians - your in the middle of the Genisis of a holy war, your about to be outnumbered, and for the most part you are all oblivious to it.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 02:13 AM
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Some of you are painting with very broad strokes and are borderline bigots. You talk about Islam as if it is this homogenous unit, us vs. them. Islam is very diverse just as Christianity is and you have different sects and different perspectives. Unfortunately at least in most Arab countries, control has been seized by the most extreme, fundamentalist factions who could care less about the Koran and are simply using Islam as a political tool to oppress and control the people, the country (and most importantly the oil $$$). However, by talking about "them" you ignore many moderate Muslims in the U.S., Turkey and all around the world.

Also as someone else stated earlier, if you read the Koran (which I have), it is not much different than the Old Testament of the Bible. People usually pick out certain versus to support their idea that Islam is violent or barbaric but if you read the whole thing it is pretty clear that this is not the case. Islam as practiced is very oppressive to women, but that is a cultural thing more than a religious dogma. We must remember that it is only recently that the status of women in "the west" has been elevated and some christian churches still won't allow women to become preachers or pastors.

Yes terrorists are dispicable, yes the Islamic governments are opressive, and yes many Islamic people have bought into the extremeist rhetoric and are ignorant to the fact that their real enemy is not America but their own corrupt governments. But Islam the religion is not to blame as it is practiced peacefully by millions around the world, its just the extremist get all the attention. Christianity at different points has been used to justify horrible attrocities and institutions in (slavery, mass killings and persecution of so-called heretics, anti-semitism ect.). However the fact that the majority of American slaveholder were Christian does not refelect what Christianity is about, but rather the political and cultural landscape at that time. The same is true of Islam. All the problems mentioned in this thread do not reflect on the religion but rather on the political and cultural landscape that Islam is currently operating in.

This is my first post by the way . I am agnostic and like to look at all religions as objectively as possible, and see a lot more similiarities than differences especially in the big three (In theory, If not in practice).



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man



It is Islam Countries that have oil as almost their only Indutries. It is Islam that has the highest birth rates on the planet. It is Islam that has a mortal enemy, the hate of which it will not let go of. It is Islam that is expanding in all parts of the world. It is Islam that thinks I'm the Infidel. It is Islam that has no respect for what I might choose to worship. This is how it affects me and why I am concerned. Though I hold most religions in equal contempt, Islam is the very dangerous one right now and is worth disscussing.

Well said


Islam is slowly taking over Europe. I have heard that when England joined the EU, they were swarmed by Illegals from other countries. How will all the white Christians feel in 35 years when they are being killed by a bunch of holy war Islamic people? Being over here in the wild west (AKA - land of the free, home of the brave - good ol' USA) We don't see that imigration as much - our problem is with mainly Mexicans.

But you know what - at least they are Christian, and won't be killing me for practicing something different then them. At worst, they form gangs in ghettos like EVERY imigrant population does when they first arive. But I feel for you European Christians - your in the middle of the Genisis of a holy war, your about to be outnumbered, and for the most part you are all oblivious to it.



Holy # , dude. White christians? outnumbered?
Ok, everyone, if you dont see it, replace Islam/Muslim with "'n-word'" and you'll see how ignorant and racist these statements are... I am speechless....

Man, and you talk about ignorant muslims...



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip



Holy # , dude. White christians? outnumbered?
Ok, everyone, if you dont see it, replace Islam/Muslim with "'n-word'" and you'll see how ignorant and racist these statements are... I am speechless....



Whether or not he meant it as a racist statement - it's actually a fact. The Islamic population is exploding in Europe. Many towns in the UK are predominantely muslim and there are more mosques than churches.

Laws have had to be enacted to accomodate their society. For example - in some towns, you can't go to the local swimming baths on a certain weekday as it is only open to Muslims because their belief forbids them swimming with the infidel.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller

Laws have had to be enacted to accomodate their society. For example - in some towns, you can't go to the local swimming baths on a certain weekday as it is only open to Muslims because their belief forbids them swimming with the infidel.


Holy genocide, man. I had no idea that it had gotten that bad already. I knew their agenda had taking the UK at the top of its list but didn't know they had managed to make such headway this soon. No wonder Blair felt his only chance was to help down Hussien who was funding quite a bit of the programs designed to make the UK a muslim country.





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