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Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:19 PM

Originally posted by CapsFan8
Just reactionaries putting out scary stories who are afraid of science and progress. God forbid we discover some mystery that is supposed to be known only to God.

Just reactionaries?

No scientists at the top of their field are concerned too who can understand this stuff?

Is that what they told you in the paper or fox?

Dr Wagner who by the way REALLY knows this stuff on coast to coast, going into detail about the Op source story, and how in fact it could take 10 yrs or 10 minutes if a mini black hole, at the subatomic level, that is it wouldn't be known about , seen, heard, or anything until it was to late, as it forms and takes up a orbit pattern AWAY from the LHC until it reaches its critical point and becomes the size of a proton, then as said 10 minutes or 10 yrs.

He goes into depth and explains the maths for us who may be scared god forbid that science could indeed find something out, very late indeed.

A very balanced well regarded scientist in THIS field who has something to say on this we should all listen too.

Kind regards,


[edit on 27-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:22 PM
Again there is no verifiable evidence that what he says is true. His math is just as good as anybody elses when it comes to the subject. Nobody has been able to know how they form, or how long it would take or any sort of those "predictions" because scientists have never had the opportunity to see one up close and study it.

All they know comes from the Hubble Space Telescope about it's composition, not necessarilly it's behaviour at all.

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:32 PM

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
What in the hell gives any scientist the right to play with the very existence of earth, and some 6 billion lives?

Hum .. well, probably the same thing that gives them 6 billion lives the same right to screw up and trash the Earth for those that will inherit this mess from us after we're all gone. I think it's called free will.

I say turn that puppy on and lets hope it swallows up the whole of humanity on Earth before they get half the chance to escape from planet Earth and infest the galaxy.
Just give me a few hours heads-up notice before we all disappear, there's a few things I would like to take care of before we all disappear. Okay? Hey, thanks!

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:38 PM
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Exactly, so as the chance of it happening is there, until it is proven that this cannot happen it should not be conducted.

The equations and Math that show the possibility it could happen have not been debunked or shown to be in error by any peer review, if you are aware of it please show a source.

It seems to be very much like a 1 in a hundred year storm, that risk is to big for me, as the risk is the destruction totally of this planet.

Men in white coats shouldnt think they have white beards and are God,

Do you know the energy in the vacuum?

The quantum flux that rides on the underlying nature or building blocks of the Universe is nothing compared to the vacuum, what holds it all together.

All the matter in the entire observable universe, every billions of stars, planets dust galaxies, gas, if turned using e-mc2 into E that is if you took the M of the universe in totality, and turned it into E it would only fit in about a matchbox or smaller of the observable universe.

Or to put it another way if you took the E or energy that has been reliably measured in the vacuum, that is all around us, all the space in the observable universe and turned it into M or matter again you would need less than a matchbox of this space, just think how big the universe is!, to create everything every star every galaxy and bit of dust that is known and seen by your Hubble.

You really think its safe to play with that Pandoras matchbox?

If you do find another planet, universe in fact because I don't want it opened in my universe.

Children should not play with matches.


[edit on 27-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:50 PM

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Dr Wagner who by the way REALLY knows this stuff on coast to coast, going into detail about the Op source story, and how in fact it could take 10 yrs or 10 minutes if a mini black hole, at the subatomic level, that is it wouldn't be known about , seen, heard, or anything until it was to late, as it forms and takes up a orbit pattern AWAY from the LHC until it reaches its critical point and becomes the size of a proton, then as said 10 minutes or 10 yrs.
[edit on 27-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

Wow, that's credible.
Remind him to put that on his resume "by the way, I REALLY know my stuff".

... come on.
(Sarcasm, for those who can't detect it.)

If this is true, then we must have billions of black holes in orbit right now poised and ready to kill us all... and for some reason, they chose to hold off up until now... and have decided to stand to the side of our view of each star as to not be detected. lol.

We simply don't have the energy to create a real black hole.

By the time we have the technological ability and the energy levels necessary to create one, we'll be pretty capable of running the test outside of our solar system. That's the kind of energy and technological capability I'm referring to... WAY beyond anything we currently possess.

All this project does is smash particles together. Same thing every particle collider has done in the past... the only difference this time is it uses a higher velocity.

The same collisions occur everywhere in our solar system, and every other solar system out there.
This time, we get to watch the collision in a controlled environment.

Whatever, when the LHC finally gets a full run, nothing will happen, and you'll all be looking for the next scientific pursuit to be afraid of.

Until then, I'll practice typing "I told you so."

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:53 PM
reply to post by johnsky

You must have missed the last 30 yrs of science my friend.

I know the text book and MSM takes a while to catch up.

Particles don't exist!

What you quote is the bog standard press release on the dangers.

Listen to him, listen to the science, check it out, he explains in details how the energy jumps are much less in the particles hitting the atmosphere, and why, which is what you are referring to and how they are a danger in this case.

Educate yourselves take a couple of hours out, listen and research.

Kind Regards


[edit on 27-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:55 PM

Pointing out, once again, that the LHC is a "particle collider."

Also pointing out, once again, that "particles collide" at these speeds on a daily bases. They're doing it right now. By the thousands. Bits of matter far bigger than anything the LHC can push through its tubes are, at this very moment, colliding with other bits of matter in the atmosphere right above your head.

No black holes. No time warps. No worm holes. No antimatter.

You're just fine. You're going to remain fine. The LHC is just a very, very, very advanced continuation of the timeless experiment where mankind smacks things against each other because, despite the fact that things smack against each other all the time, they need to actually see it happen for themselves.

Let me reiterate:

Thousands of much more powerful collisions are occurring in our atmosphere, right now, as you read this, and the world is not ending.

(Of course, now that I've said that, we'll probably get hit by a meteor...)

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:00 PM
reply to post by mattifikation

No they dont, that is a fallacy, it is a totally different phase transition.

If these are happening everywhere like "just above our Heads" why would they need to create this thing to do this, and not just use a small instrument on the shuttle to watch them happening, or a satellite?

It is a different thing entirely and laymans science to say that.


posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:07 PM
The earth is flat, it is the center of the universe, Man can never fly, we'll never make it to the moon etc

Sound familiar? we have MORE of a chance of getting hit but an asteroid that would kill everyone then we would create an earth eating "black hole"

there is a better chance you will die driving to work tomorrow then an earth devastating LHC particle collision, so please, stay home, we would all want you to be safe , right! right?? Huh??

So lets all be safe and go back to caves, Life and advancement is risky......

"the meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall escape to the STARS..."

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:10 PM
Yeah, an article which has an explanation of events as detailed as "um, well, see ya" is really going to convince me that experienced particle physicists are wrong and that we should stop an experiment that is going to let us understand the very nature of the subatomic particle itself.

Maybe it is YOU who is arrogantly trying to stop us from benefiting from scientific progress due to your petty, ignorant fears? (Note that "you" here is most likely not you)

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The engineers and scientists designing and testing the first atomic-bombs thought that igniting the entirety of the earth's atmosphere was a distinct possibility of lighting off a nuclear weapon - but they did it anyway

If the micro black hole did survive outside the collider and proceeded on its merry way to destroy the Earth, it won't destroy the Earth in a flash or a spectacular brilliant flash of light then gobbled up by a vortex as you see in sci-fi movies.

It would rather start off as a tiny invisible tunneling machine dropping to the core of the Earth, passing by it, ending up to the other side of the globe and dropping again. It will accumulate matter at every pass, creating a tunnel, much larger than before, criscrossing all over Earth's sphere. Consuming Earth slowly, eventually, Earth will collapse on itself by the ever growing tunnels. The BH will continue tunneling with Earth progressively collapsing to a smaller sphere until it's all consumed by the BH.

It's analogous to a worm eating and tunneling a fruit from the inside out.

I think they should postpone this until December 23, 2012 if I got the date right.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by ahnggk]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:19 PM

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

No they dont, that is a fallacy, it is a totally different phase transition.

And, in your own words, what does phase transition actually mean? Or are you parroting what some quack said on the 'net? Phase transition to me is the change of a substance from one physical state to another, such as from a gas to liquid. Is there some hidden pseudo-science meaning you're referring to?

The LHC will not create a black hole for the variety of reasons repeated here in this thread and the 50 other threads about the LHC. I won't bore you or myself by repeating them.

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:22 PM
I say let those scientist folk push the red button. If all goes to hell you all can phone me and say "ha haaaaa toooooooooooooooooold yooooooooooooooooooouuuuuu sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" *splat*

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:26 PM

Originally posted by wisefoolishness

Well...yeah. There you go. If you're into doom and gloom, this story is for you. The first time I heard about this, I said the same thing they are saying now. They now say that the small black holes could live for more than a second as they previously thought, but they don't know how much longer. Hopefully not long enough to destroy the earth or cause some kind of havoc. Scientists are really smart, but sometimes I wonder if they lack common sense.

Thoughts? Comments?


(emphasis added)

Sometimes I wonder if ATS members 'lack common sense.'

The instrument is the Large Hadron Collider, not a "Doomsday Machine."

The article itself informs that the three scientists speculating about the life-span of (only theoretcially possible) mini black-holes do not believe they pose any danger.

Does that help answer your question?

[edit on 27-1-2009 by jdub297]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:34 PM
reply to post by jdub297


They don't believe it could happen. There's a greater chance of nothing happening, but still the possibility of something bad happening.

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:35 PM
reply to post by wisefoolishness

There was a similar chance of the universe exploding when we first made fire.

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Nightchild
So, the "doomsayers" were right all along. Silly "Scientists".
Wasn't it obvious for them from the beginning that it would be dangerous? What is the point with the experiment anyway?

The experiment is the greatest scientific experiment known to date.

It will literally recreate the big bang theory and will give some of the most amusing and epic discoveries ever.

Only at the cost of the chance involving 6 billion people being crushed and twisted into alternate divisions so quickly and brutally; that not even time, space, and light, can survive or escape it._javascript:icon('

BUT you know, who cares its for knowledge (It would seem we are evolving out of survivability instincts into a quest of knowledge).


posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:50 PM
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Nightchild
What is the point with the experiment anyway?

That would be to find that God particle.. The Higgs boson.


The Higgs particle is as yet a hypothetical particle invoked to explain why the carriers of the electroweak force (the W and Z bosons) have mass. Quantum electrodynamics requires the photon to have zero mass (which is good because indeed it does), but early attempts to develop and electroweak theory also required the bosons to be massless, (which is bad because then they would be as abundant as the photon in the universe, which indeed they are not). Peter Higgs and two Belgian researchers (who worked independently of Higgs) come across the same idea for settling the puzzle in 1964. If there is an otherwise undetectable field filling the universe (now called the Higgs field), it could have associated with it a previously unknown kind of boson, the Higgs particle, which has mass. This would allow any photon-like particle to become massive by swallowing up a Higgs boson. It is possible, but not proven, that all-massive particles get their mass this way.

Another way for man to play god..

I find it funny when mankind started off we would bang rocks together to make tools..
Now in our age we are banging atoms and particles together to make new tools.. Funny how that works huh..

[edit on 27-1-2009 by zysin5]

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:58 PM

Roberto Casadio of the University of Bologna in Italy and Sergio Fabi and Benjamin Harms of the University of Alabama

Those people are the source, not Fox News.

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