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Brits Shoot at UFOs, Ex-official Says

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by welivefortheson
 


I've determined that the only thing that is impossible is Time Travel. Kind of throws a wrench in your evil time-traveling computer AI theory, now doesn't it.

;-)




posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 



If they just said it now theres a good chance of a huge panic or war/civil war.


Depending on the length of time it turns out that the governments withheld this information it might lead to civil war no matter how the release it or coordinate it. I can't imagine too many people being thrilled especially here in America that our government for the people, by the people, is adept at and likes keeping such important secrets from the people it serves!



That's pretty lame.

If Bush "winning" a second term wasn't enough to push half our population over the edge, I'm certain that a little thing like confirming alien life won't do it.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
 



If Bush "winning" a second term wasn't enough to push half our population over the edge


I don't know! Something drove them over the edge enough to elect Barrack Obama. Unlike most of his detractors I suspect Obama is going to be four more years of George Bush and he is going to turn out to be even more right wing! I don't know, time will tell on that.

I do think that you are very correct, by and large most people are fed up with government or at least the way the past administration ran it.

There is always though just enough wiggle room for the person who wants to be in denial to retreat too though when it comes to people like Bush in government, and how he makes decisions and in what mode of secrecy.

In the case of it turning out that multiple Presidents both democrat and republican had withheld certain knowledge of an alien presence there wouldn't be any room left for denial for the "oh they would never do that" crowd.

Lets hope you are right though that people would accept it. I think war is a rotten way to ruin a day!



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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I've determined that the only thing that is impossible is Time Travel. Kind of throws a wrench in your evil time-traveling computer AI theory, now doesn't it.
;-)


So this would basically say that you do not believe in quantum mechanics at all right?

I think we can pretty much prove time travel is possible just by the slit experiment with light. As the light passes through the two slits it transposes itself on the background in three spots in an interference pattern. This would suggest that light is both wave and particle an can be at the same point in time in two different manifestations, or as we see it in the visible realm it is in two points in time and manifested in only one state in our point in space time.

I am no physicist, so that is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject, but it does appear to me to be pretty sound theory.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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LIKE I SAID!

If you are to deny and be skeptical about the Bentwaters AFB incident, then you are too ignorant to realize the truth.

Trained militant soldiers do NOT make crap up like this, it costs them their jobs and credibility. Not to mention if anyone ever saw the UFO Hunters episode where they tried to debunk the AFB case, it was I M P O S S I B L E for the lighthouse to of created what they saw.

Of course they are told to shoot at UFOs. Why not?



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The idea of an earth military shooting at a UFO is dumb on so many levels.


Not entirely. That is SOP. And remember that the Nazis were once suspected of producing and operating saucers and other unconventional craft, which also got into Soviet hands. Two of which are hostile factions to NATO back in those days. Also that not all high advanced race are peaceful nor have good intentions.

Two, any harmless, smart, alien race should also have their own protocols to avoid conflict if they want to initiate peaceful contact. That might include covertly studying Earth protocols, culture, language, laws, etc beforehand to improve the success of contact.

Three, UFO's that have been fired upon but didn't leave right away - despite their incredible capability to do so may actually be testing our own capabilities. This may be still be part of their peaceful 'covert' research or a hostile intent - pre invasion assessment.

Lastly, the fact is we know very little about them but they may know much about us due to their superior technology and possibly intelligence. So they have the greater responsibility for a peaceful contact. It's their fault, not ours. Same thing where the adult gets the blame, not the young child if anything goes wrong.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by ahnggk]

[edit on 27-1-2009 by ahnggk]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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If you want to start talking capabilities...

...if one of these craft released a fraction of their energy a good portion of Earth would be scorched.

They zip around the Earth orbit at or slightly above a million mph. Most of them don't have heat signatures, I think it is the exception if they do.

If you want to know what grace and mercy is, then look to them, for if judgment were up to them we would have been toast long ago.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by DarrylGalasso


I've determined that the only thing that is impossible is Time Travel. Kind of throws a wrench in your evil time-traveling computer AI theory, now doesn't it.
;-)


So this would basically say that you do not believe in quantum mechanics at all right?

I think we can pretty much prove time travel is possible just by the slit experiment with light. As the light passes through the two slits it transposes itself on the background in three spots in an interference pattern. This would suggest that light is both wave and particle an can be at the same point in time in two different manifestations, or as we see it in the visible realm it is in two points in time and manifested in only one state in our point in space time.

I am no physicist, so that is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject, but it does appear to me to be pretty sound theory.


I've never seen anything in Quantum Mechanics that proves time travel.

I do, however, think there are "energy states" of time. The most obvious manifestation is electricity. The electron is slightly in the future and that gives it a negative charge relative to the proton. The quantum mechanics on this issue is kind of screwy, because they talk about relativistic effects making things more massive, yet can't explain why this doesn't happen to the same particle moving faster in an electron -- but I digress. More recent QM theories I've read are more in line with stuff I've been thinking about for years. So I was wrong then and I'm right now? It makes me feel that if I'm delusional, at least people with more PhDs are sharing it.

The point is, that when you talk about the light/slit experiment, you are talking about light interfering with itself. The light acts as a particle, because it collapses two a point and re-propagates. That has to do with threshold charge and that waves interfere and interact on their peaks. There was some silly nonsense for a time, of the light "knowing" that an adjacent slit was open. I think its a lot simpler than that; what the light propagates on is traveling out like a ripple on a pond. The light, has to have a certain energy level because it is moving a "packet" of potential energy (relates to gravity, but again, don't want to digress here). It can't deliver half a packet, so whichever slit allows it to move with the least energy is the winner. However, the "ripple" on the medium is still there, influencing the light. Now the medium itself is probably distorted instantaneously -- meaning, not subject to speed of light issues. You can imagine also, that in the opposite direction of the light source, the ripple is also propagating. This is what led me to a notion of a medium that I call the aether, which has its own 4 dimensions that don't interact with ours except as a conduit for light (electromagnetism) and gravity. The concept of the aether is getting popular again -- I hope its not a fad.

I don't know if anyone else has this theory -- but I'm just sharing my insight. The term "Quantum" just means small packets. It's a manifestation that everything, is a wave. The fundamental Particles, have wave forms that are fixed to higher dimensions -- holes in space/time. So, then, the light probability wave, collapsing so that it only travels through one slit, keeps consistent with the "quantum" nature of things very small. Electrons are not found between electron shells, and when the drop down to a lower orbital, they release a Phonon -- so it is a distinct packet of energy.

Anyway, the physics that allows for the Universe to exist at all, works our really great if it happens in an infinitesimal moment of time. Since all that is interacts in that time, it is plenty. When you really understand that "everything is relative" you realize that you only know size, speed and distance by comparing things. You don't REALLY know how big things are -- this Universe could be inside the atom of another Universe. Doesn't really matter from our point of view though.

Time, is more of a "potential energy" of space/time flowing into this universe. The only moment you can measure is right now. OK, now. The point is, that what was THEN, was a pattern of energy that will never exist again. Is there a new dimension created to store ever moment in time? It kind of defeats the purpose of existence. Its in the constant process of annihilation and creation. It would be like saying; "If you swim downstream of the current, you will find the water in the exact pattern it was before." No, that water is busy making new shapes and patterns. There is a flow -- not a string. You can't go back to some point on this imaginary time string and say; "Wow, look at all the dinosaurs." The dinosaurs are still here in a sense, because there is no TIME separating us, it's just that everything that made up the dinosaur is now busy forming other patterns.

I could slow down time relative to me, and move into the future, but all I've done is make patterns that moved slower than those around me (being frozen or moving at high acceleration). It is a one-way trip.

Anyway, I didn't mean to be serious about the "no time travel" quip -- but really, I think that Time is an illusion, there are no "frames" in this movie -- it's more a point in place on a river. We are insubstantial phantoms in a wind storm.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
 


Thanks for the info. Like I said I am no physicist and have an extremely limited amount of knowledge in the area. Your post has helped me understand quite a bit more than I did 10 minutes ago.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Matyas
If you want to start talking capabilities...

...if one of these craft released a fraction of their energy a good portion of Earth would be scorched.

They zip around the Earth orbit at or slightly above a million mph. Most of them don't have heat signatures, I think it is the exception if they do.

If you want to know what grace and mercy is, then look to them, for if judgment were up to them we would have been toast long ago.


I could imagine some stealth technology, but why 1 million mph? Wouldn't 300,000 mph do, or how about 3 million?

The point is; we have slow-motion cameras that can just about capture a millionth of a second.

The other point is; there is no point to traveling that fast. I'm sure, given enough technology, you might travel through air without disturbing it, creating a wake, or heating up the atoms. I figure there are a few easy ways to turn heat into light anyway -- but that's another topic.

If I'm traveling a million miles an hour, I'm on the other side of the earth before I can blink. Of course, maybe the aliens are in a time pocket, or have given up organic existence for a cyber one -- they can process things that fast and enjoy the view. But where are they going and why bother?

If you don't want to be seen, you stand off a few hundred thousand miles and view remotely. If you travel here, you need a closer look or need to do something. If you actually need to look closer -- than you probably don't have technology that can allow you to pass through matter without heating it or disturbing it -- so therefore, you have a destination in mind.

So, even if you could travel that fast around the planet -- there is no point. You'd be on the ground with landing pod out in an eye blink. Of course, after you've damped the energy of 50,000 atomic bombs from moving at a million mph to zero in a millionth of a second -- but I'm just pulling a number out of my rear.

>> If aliens confided in you -- why would they not give you something that was some definitive information that was something that could be proved, and would show someone else that you knew something? Either that, or they just want to frustrate you.

I'll go for principles of using coherent matter, to vibrate space/time in such a way that the craft is transparent to electromagnetic radiation -- that's how I'd do it. That still doesn't get you completely around turbulence, because the non-coherent matter is not going to pass through regular matter without some interference -- causing heat. But, it's likely that these aliens are smarter than me, so maybe they figured that out. I've only been thinking about it for a few months, after all.

There is plenty of space to slide through matter -- the distance between the nucleus of an atom and the electron is about like the distance from the sun to Jupiter. What causes light and other matter to bounce off, is the interference of the strong forces holding the atom together. All the atoms are resonating and creating different interference patterns. It's kind of hard to understand, but you have to keep atoms with their current patterns, otherwise the pass through each other, but you create a subcarrier resonance that is coherent, that makes you like glass to light AND matter. I'm just guessing, though.

So, you might want to travel at a sluggish 30,000 mph, and cloak your ship. Going a million MPH is just showing off, and does not allow for any sightseeing.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
 


Thanks for the info. Like I said I am no physicist and have an extremely limited amount of knowledge in the area. Your post has helped me understand quite a bit more than I did 10 minutes ago.


PLEASE, don't quote me as "INFO." Half of that is actual physics and the other half is stuff I figured out on my own -- which means it could be total gibberish. Even if true, it will sound like Gibberish to another physicist, because I'm using my own terms, having come to all of this on my own.

It is only when I occasionally take a peak at Quantum Theory, and finally recognize we are saying the same things with different imagery that I get any confidence at all.

But seriously, it won't impress anyone to repeat it. The people who just barely understand QT would not recognize the "facts" and principles in the same way that they read it -- anyone that worked this hard to know this much has a hard time with different vocabulary, much less any deviation from dogma. Only people who understand physics in a way that they "see it" would either get the ideas, or be having their own theory.

I'm either a sage or a fool and at that point, few can tell the difference.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Nick Pope on FOX

OMG was that interviewer so dumb !



Wow you're not kidding. Nick Pope is trying to tell them this is "official" and they keep dishing this "wow...really...where did this come from?". A rather poor interview all around while Nick tries to educate.

There is a definite knowledge divide in society over UFOs. Some of us are so far ahead that going on general public television to talk is like watching someone educate a 1st grader on why the sky is blue.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by welivefortheson
 


I've determined that the only thing that is impossible is Time Travel. Kind of throws a wrench in your evil time-traveling computer AI theory, now doesn't it.

;-)


not really considering time travel has been proven,particles travelling back in time and arriving at detector before they were sent.
and non public experiments are even more revealing.
a recent crack down on a public time travel experiment further reveals that fact.

i also doubt you are the sole almighty source of whether time travel is possible.

your desire to be so indicates you have a strong desire to not believe in time travel.
and that desire is governed by threat,you are threatened by the concept of time travel being real,you strongly wish it not to be.

oh an assuming the "man" himself isnt some form of hyperspace entity or the like,it would have to be a large form of computer......a sitting duck me thinks,his ample and glutinous frame is bound to stand out!,not very mobile me thinks!.
if not,perhaps it is a ship,a mother ship......a bit harder to combat of course but its bound to be fat ready for the roasting!



[edit on 27-1-2009 by welivefortheson]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by welivefortheson
 


source... I want to see



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Matyas
If you want to start talking capabilities...

...if one of these craft released a fraction of their energy a good portion of Earth would be scorched.

They zip around the Earth orbit at or slightly above a million mph. Most of them don't have heat signatures, I think it is the exception if they do.

If you want to know what grace and mercy is, then look to them, for if judgment were up to them we would have been toast long ago.


oh cmon matyas you know fair well a few dozen teslas,a time machine and a multi trillion dollar funding would compete with them quite easily.
humans can often be underestimated!

and if they scorch earth they wreck their present time somewhat.....whos really got thier finger on the button....all them rat holes under the earth,hell all it takes is a meeting of scalar waves in the depths of the earth and kaboom!,subterranian scalar wave energy bottles!

but i do agree if not for higher grace humans earth would be somewhat.......non existant.

now lets hope that grace was for a reason,not just to minimize suffering,but to allow an ultimate unexpected victory,to create a parabel of compassion,showing it has positive value beyond a moral belief,and that self serving hostility and power mongering will often lead to ruin.
amazing....it is...grace.
human grace.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by welivefortheson

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by welivefortheson
 


I've determined that the only thing that is impossible is Time Travel. Kind of throws a wrench in your evil time-traveling computer AI theory, now doesn't it.

;-)


not really considering time travel has been proven,particles travelling back in time and arriving at detector before they were sent.
and non public experiments are even more revealing.
a recent crack down on a public time travel experiment further reveals that fact.

i also doubt you are the sole almighty source of whether time travel is possible.

your desire to be so indicates you have a strong desire to not believe in time travel.
and that desire is governed by threat,you are threatened by the concept of time travel being real,you strongly wish it not to be.


Thanks for that. I had the best chuckle all day. Really.

I'm threatened by time travel. ...

It would be cool if it were possible.

The particles arriving at detectors before they were sent. Well, we've got a problem with that kind of test -- I'd have to be more familiar with it to say for sure, but it's possible that since we are talking a small particle -- that ramping up the energy to send it causes a detection.

Can you receive the particle and NOT send it if you detect the particle in this experiment? That would be an important test of causality.

Also, if their is a "crack down on time experiments" what exactly constitutes a "time machine?" What are people doing to manipulate time? The only way I've heard of is acceleration or high gravity -- and that slows it down.

The way I "see" this happening, you can even reverse time -- but like I said, there is nothing "back there," its an energy potential. Slow down time enough and particles expand -- as can be seen in a nuclear accelerator. You have to go faster than the speed of light, or you punch through space/time and then you've just affected your position in space/time. Like I said, you can jump down the river and look at the water that passed -- but it doesn't have the same pattern.

The only way I can see time preserved as a "scene" is that the Universe spawns a new dimension at every moment.

I think this does take place, but all of them but one are destroyed. Again, a theory of mine and it has to do with why things move or even have a charge. A lot of the theories are true and not true at the same time. A multiverse is created but only one exists. There is time travel but you can't preserve state.

Quantum mechanics points to not knowing the speed and position of a particle at the same time -- if you could go back in time, you could determine this. But personally, I think its because we test things by throwing the equivalent of a cannon ball at them.

That's the problem, a lot of this theory works with the byproducts of smashing very small things at high speeds. You would think that two pocket watches were merely a spontaneous arrangement of spiky things not knowing they were gears.

I'd be happy to entertain some time travel theories, if I saw one that made sense.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
reply to post by weemadmental
 


Nick Pope is 44 years old. He spent 25 years with the MOD. Smart guy, and someone I consider not only a contact but a friend.

Smart guy? Are you sure about that?


"There was a faction in the MoD who said 'We want to shoot down a UFO and that will resolve the issue one way or another,'"


I thought that the issue was resolved a long time ago by all the crash-landed UFO captured by the government and stashed away in "Hangar 18," as the ufologists have been producing "evidence" after "evidence" that the government has been lying about the truth regarding the UFO. Now Nick Pope lets down his brothers in arms by saying that in order to arrive at conclusive material evidence of UFOs being indeed ET-made objects, the MoD tried to resolve the issue not by visiting Hangar 18, but attempting to shoot it down in order to look at it.

The only thing that MoD did resolve is the meaning of the word "ufology." It is apparently some kind of mental disorder that manifests itself by hangar 18 episodes.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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Great...now aliens think we are all hostile. There going to come back full force like in independence day and destroy the world.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 11:35 PM
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They're breaking the news to the population gradually, not like the War of the Worlds broadcast. If they broke the news about the reality of UFO's to us too soon, the world wouldn't be able to handle it and mass chaos would ensue.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 11:35 PM
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This thread communicates a good policy to all other nations Spy Craft.
It basically means: “Come here, uninvited, looking for evidence of our military capabilities-operations and we will to try shoot down you’re aircraft so we can analyse it; perhaps even recycle its technology for a spy craft we can use against you.”

Regarding UFO’s
If I were an explorer intruding onto wild animals hunting territory e.g. bears, tigers, leopards or wolves I would not be surprised if they tried to attack me; especially if they were hungry or thought I was a threat to either their territory or young.

So frankly common sense should tell UFO’s that if they get attacked by the RAF they should really have just been more careful in how they deal with wild animals.
After all wild animals could have any kind of instincts or concepts. This would be especially true if the wild animals concerned are from another planet.
So it should even hold true if it means the animal in question is called “Mankind” and seem (through cities) to have dominated pretty much of all of one planet.

If real UFO’s don’t get shot down it should hardly come of any surprise given all the distance they must have travelled.




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