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Should we save America or just let it Fall? - Seriously

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Dramey

america falls then we are all screwed

if america fails

the world is truly doomed to armageddon



I agree

We have WMD's

We're just stupid enough to use them on eachother



we must separate church and state and leave it that way, if america is to survive

if the earth with us as humans as the dominant species is to survive and thrive, we must rid our leaders of the ignorant ones and find a way to create a nation based not on greed and power but humanity and compassion


It started out that way

[edit on 27-1-2009 by In nothing we trust]




posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


No one has proven to my satisfaction that Islamic terrorists were to blame, or were singularly to blame, for the attacks of September 11. I am not making excuses for terrorists, but rather examing why I, as a citizen, am getting sucked into a fight that wasn't of my making or desire, especially since I am not getting a dime or increased security out of protecting the interests of a corporate few from the consequences of their behavior.

My point is that they (the capitalist financier class) are drawing upon the social contract while failing to uphold their duty under it. This country wasn't designed to be a cutthroat, every-man-for-himself grab for power and wealth. It was designed to balance needs and share resources, allowing all an equal chance. An elite has arisen that ignores responsibilities and duties of citizenship, and instead uses their fellow citizenry as a shield behind which to commit heinous crimes while preventing the proper sharing of resources and the results of labor.

It is that part of the citizenry that controls the organs of state and cause all Americans to be branded with the same brush, and that corporate elite takes far more from the American pie than they contribute. If the corporations were to be billed for services rendered as most of the smaller folk are, the bill for Iraq would be placed at their feet, not ours. Iraq is/was a corporate war, totally unnecessary for the national defense, designed primarliy to enable looting of the treasury. Afghanistan was/is maybe now still is different.

So either eliminate the corporate elite or bring them under control: failing this, the country will fall one way or the other.

You have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What does this mean in practice? Does it mean merely that you're allowed to be alive, or does it mean that no other citizen can lawfully create conditions inimical to your life? Does it mean that business interests can create a system whereby you live in functional slavery by progressively limiting your choices of employment, entrepreneurial endeavors to prevent competition, or eat up so much of your time and energy earning a minimal living for you and huge profits for them that you've so little left of either, social progress is nearly impossible.

That's what we need to look at and change.

Getting patriotically defensive doesn't move the discussion forward. It's unnecessary. I'm as big a patriot as anyone, but having actually served on the pointy end of the stick, I'm a little more invested in running the place right than most. I've earned my right to criticize what I see as wrong with this country, and not be called unpatriotic. I respect and give my allegiance to the Constitution, not a bunch of politicians or financiers.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by apacheman]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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As another poster said, i see the decline of american dominance a profitable thing for the rest of the world. No more installing dictators around the world. No more going to war with countries that wont give us their natural resources for free. No more browbeating any country that has a ideology we dont agree with (socialism) with sanctions and embargos that kill their poor and their children. No more banana republics or blood diamonds. Not that i think these things will all just evaporate, but as our power grows weaker we have less ability to unilaterally impose them upon all those we dislike or disagree with. In all honesty, most countries whose governments we get involved with stay 3rd world, there is a rich history here of us crushing new fledgling democracies and imposing our own dictators (shah, pinochet, suharto, hussein, papa doc, it goes on and on) and only a single example of a "democracy" that we nurtured into affluence, and thats israel, which is not truly a democracy at all, but more an apartheid state.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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Let it fail.




posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Dramey
america falls then we are all screwed

this isnt 1492 and we can sail the ocean blue for better places to raise children

there are no more red skinned whose land we can conquer

if america fails

the world is truly doomed to armageddon

what must be done is the righteous must overcome the evil and make this a land that our forefathers wished it to be, and died to create

the corrupt must be disarmed and stripped of power replacing them with the righteous

not religious

we must separate church and state and leave it that way, if america is to survive

if the earth with us as humans as the dominant species is to survive and thrive, we must rid our leaders of the ignorant ones and find a way to create a nation based not on greed and power but humanity and compassion


We are all screwed. At least in the physical sense. Time to concentrate on the spiritual.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


Who says America is going to fall?

This is paranoia at its best.

America has survived: The Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, The great
Depression, WWII, the 70s oil crisis, The Cold War, The Dot.com bubble.
Why should this event be spectacular? And a lot of economists don't even feel this is the worst recession we have faced.
And we are just fine.
This problem is also global. Many countries are having problems, no need to single us out.

Enough with the drama.



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


Who says America is going to fall?

This is paranoia at its best.

America has survived: The Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, The great
Depression, WWII, the 70s oil crisis, The Cold War, The Dot.com bubble.
Why should this event be spectacular? And a lot of economists don't even feel this is the worst recession we have faced.
And we are just fine.
This problem is also global. Many countries are having problems, no need to single us out.

Enough with the drama.


Try history says: Toynbee was one historian who found a recurring pattern of state growth, development and collapse that usually took about 225 years or so, we're 233. Others see recurring patterns also:

www.irows.ucr.edu...
www.mindfully.org...

The USSR survived a lot, too, and where is it now?

If you take anything economists say as having much more credibility than an astrological chart, then you are in deep trouble: economics is not a science, and most of its practitioners are wrong most of the time.

We aren't fine.

And it's precisely because it's global that this crisis is so different from all others, there is no safe haven where it can be ridden out. There's no uninfected economy.

Sorry if you think this is merely drama, reality will soon slap the crap out of you.



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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I don't know what the **** you're suggesting, as though it can be saved.

We have a significant portion of our population on the dole, completely worthless, non-productive people, sucking the very life out of those who are productive,

we have a financial system that has been corrupted by government intervention, compelled to make loans everyone knew couldn't be paid,

we have states who have outspent their income and are going broke, wanting to borrow more,

we have a population that is deeply in personal debt, living far beyond their means, and now the cows have come home,

we have a group of politicians in control who are so completely removed from reality that they think the answer to excessive debt is to print more money and go further into debt.

Saving it is not much of an option is it?

I think the country needs a good enema, and as it comes apart, we need states rights to dominate as originally intended by our founding fathers.

Every frikken problem we have today is directly the fault of an overly powerful, overly dominating, overly intrusive, central government.

Let it rip.

It can't get any worse that what these Washington clowns have in store for us.



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust
I don't know what to think anymore.


Do you like the concept of America?

Is there a better alternative as far as countries go?

What can you as an average citizen do?

Do you even care?

What do you care about?

Personally I think that if something is to be done to save the concept of America it will have to be done by a small but very motivated and dedicated group of believers.

It is apparent that the masses just don't give a crap 'bout nothin'.

I think it is about to get bloody and I think the lights around the world are about to go out. The entire human race hangs by a thread, I hope you realize that. We're such a stupid species we might just wipe ourselves out. Game over.

Is this the best we can do?

Stop the financial Apocalypse of the U.S. - Tommorrow is a better day
www.abovetopsecret.com...


America has already fallen! You see America = you and me. When we let our congress bail out big corporations with our tax money and the CEO's are getting bonus's from bail out money and we struggle to make ends meat America has fallen.

American's have become brainwashed and complacent. Our goverment is going to lead us to genocide and because we have been caudled for so long we will happily follow.

When Marshall Law finally has to be declared, America will come back to life again. Those who fight the machine back will actually be true Americans.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by lightinthedark33]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by In nothing we trust
 

Seriously? There's no we in this you're on your own.
If you live in the US and want to let it fall, go ahead.
I'm just gonna wait until Obama makes the move, and wait until the dust settles a little bit.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


Who says America is going to fall?

This is paranoia at its best.

America has survived: The Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, The great
Depression, WWII, the 70s oil crisis, The Cold War, The Dot.com bubble.
Why should this event be spectacular? And a lot of economists don't even feel this is the worst recession we have faced.
And we are just fine.
This problem is also global. Many countries are having problems, no need to single us out.

Enough with the drama.


Try history says: Toynbee was one historian who found a recurring pattern of state growth, development and collapse that usually took about 225 years or so, we're 233. Others see recurring patterns also:

www.irows.ucr.edu...
www.mindfully.org...

The USSR survived a lot, too, and where is it now?

If you take anything economists say as having much more credibility than an astrological chart, then you are in deep trouble: economics is not a science, and most of its practitioners are wrong most of the time.
[

Because based on the thesis of ONE historian?

As interesting as that paper was, it is hardly proof.
And the USSR is still there, while people are trying to regroup, learn to live in a democracy, and decide what to call themselves. The USSR contains some of the worlds largest natural gas reserves, don't count them down and out yet. And there are countries that are still in the world, after several millenia.


And it's precisely because it's global that this crisis is so different from all others, there is no safe haven where it can be ridden out. There's no uninfected economy.


Different doesn't mean we are damned. And every country is handling it to the best of their abilities. If it came down to WWIII over resources, you can't count the United States out.
For one, we have most of the world's coal supply. So if necessary, even if it is dirty, we have a fuel source. We provide the world's corn among other things, so we have our own food sources. And don't think there are not reserves. As long as you can supply the troops, you can run a war.


Sorry if you think this is merely drama, reality will soon slap the crap out of you.


We will still be sitting here after 12/21/2012 too.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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Let it fall? Seriously, the USA has been systematically destroyed and there’s nothing any of us can do about it. Just as Germany had to be destroyed and rebuilt in the globalist image for a united Europe to emerge, the USA must be destroyed in order for the one world gov to emerge. And we’ve only just crested the hill.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by Amaxium

Look, I love America. I live in it and I have more freedoms and opportunities than the rest of the world.


really?

I mean...

reallllly?

you mean like the freedumb to become as greedy as ef and rise to the top of the greasy stripper totem pole and rape tax payers of their livelyhood? that kind of freedumb?

capitalism is out of control and it shows.

you've been conditionally polarized into thinking anything that is mentioned averse to complete unbridled capitalism is evil communism.

America as it were, was a temporary corporation to use the animalistic self-interest of the individual to spur radical invention in all areas of science and industry/commerce.
now that all the data necessary has been gleaned..
it's being disposed of in it's current format and a transition is being made to a new paradigm of economic structure within the geographic locale.

the only people that are going to be hauled out and disposed of are those that cling to the myth of ideas and issues that they very well may not even PRACTICE but just "like the sound of" ....
like the myth that because you have guns you actually have some sort of control.
or the myth that you can make tons of money without being completely interconnected with corrupt individuals seeking the same.. playing their game... sure it's been done.. rarely though..

reincarnation is the machinery of the universe.

the gun slinging "this is MY LAND" individual will be eradicated.
it's not YOUR land.
never was.
you were just in a hypnotic trance thinking it WAS... WHILE that thought process was valuable to the acceleration of the economy.
and NOW IT'S NOT.

Changes aren't permanent... but CHANGE IS..

I don't care how many people this offends.
If you don't look at life from a cosmic and eternal changing stance.. and continue to remain rooted to the ground absorbed by the concrete belifs of ages past.. you won't add to the culture in a positive manner.

all the negative and manipulative shist on TV is there to sway the uneducated and unaware masses.
if you can't get past that it may NOT be aimed at YOU.. and aimed at people that NEED to be lead... then there's no hope for you.

just cooperate with the proccesses at hand..
because some BIG SHISTE is about to hit the fan in the next couple years.. and you had better grasp it in a larger universal aspect rather than staying in the "comfy" past.

america has always been a bastion of leadership and innovation in the world.
that's something that will always be remembered... and no doubt looked at as an inspiration world wide for future generations... no matter what incarnation North America takes.. it's the PEOPLE that live there.. doing what they do.. and helping one another that matters..

but man.. when people get all hoity toighty about delusional manifestations of temporary ground rules that hold no quarter in the days to come...

time to understand that "GREAT" .. you "see" what's happening..
now try to understand it on a deeper level instead of
being a wart in the way of a razorblade across the shaving path!


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