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City cuts electricity -- and he froze to death

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 


Zerbst, I regretfully gave that poster a star thinking along the lines of accountability and a free market system; however, your words and insight put things into perspective.

Thank you!




posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by leisuredrummer
Unfortunately, as sad as this is, it's not the responsibility of the power company to provide free electricity to customers. Also, the power company has no idea if the person has stopped paying their bill becuase the person moved, died, etc. It wasn't like they knew this was a 93 year old man who couldn't afford his bill, so they said aww screw it, let him die. They just see a piece of paper that says this person hasn't paid.


That isn't true. They would've engaged in a dialogue with him. There would have been letters and phone calls leading up to the "aww screw it" moment (which is exactly the way they would've felt about this).
As a side note, if they did just disconnect without any investigation at all, that would be wilful negligence and I'm thinking, even in this corrupt would, they wouldn't get away with that.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Zerbst


Let me give you a little "WAKE UP" to reality. I cannot speak for other states, but in Michigan, we have endured a 50%-65% increase to all utility costs. The only domestic policy effected during the Bush administration came immediately after his inauguration when he eliminated or significantly relaxed any oversight related to these companies. Giving them free reign to charge consumers anything they want, while afforded the luxury of monopolizing their markets by being the sole providers of these services with no other competition existing to stabilize pricing.

This is the direct cause to the failure of many small businesses here, including my own. I can only imagine how this effects a 93 year old man, on a fixed income, already strained by rising prescription drug and medical care costs? To write this off as a result of as "Everyone is expecting free hand outs and trusting government to make sure everything is taken care of without ever bothering to learn for themselves." is naive and heartless, to say the least.

Stop confusing yourself of which side you should be defending. Anytime something like this occurs, try figuring it out yourself. Don't just believe everything you are told like a good slave!


So where does the line stop for not paying for goods? How do you decide who should get it for free and who shouldn't? Its not like tons of people dont die all over the world from not having food or shelter.

I'm not saying he got what was coming to him because I do feel bad for him. My point is that you can't look to company's to help you out because its not going to happen. You can't expect your government to help you for just the same reasons you listed.

Sure I may sound like a heartless bastard but really my point is the opposite. People need to learn to fend for themselves and build community's within their neighbors. Eventually some brown stuffs gonna hit the fan and this will be all too common. Try to move to an off the grid lifestyle even if your living on the grid. Read the survival forum or books.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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yes ,no one knows if he was an old bast*&d or whether he he was just so old that everyone he ever had died or if his wife died ,or if his kids or grandkids are selfish jerks and don't want to help him because they just want to buy a new flat screen TV

I don't have any elderly helpless neighbors currently,but when I did I checked on them and made sure they had food and power

and if the power went out I made sure they had heat and food
if I was his neighbor I would have taken my portable propane heater over there and a few battery power camp lights

the idea that its' okay with you for the utility company to condemn an old man to a horrible lonely death says more about you than him



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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geez imagine paying your power bill for some 70 odd years you cant make the payment and they cant let you ride for free till spring

how much could he have owed 200 -300 maybe a 1000 dollars big deal
how do you live with yourshelf being the serviceman that disconnected it
to go home and think i just killed a 93 year old because i was the guy that popped the meter off and put 2 plastic grommets in the hole and this guy was killed over a lousy 1000 thousand dollars

to think when he had that power hooked up it probably cost him about 2 dollars a month now the bill is what 130-200 dollars a month



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Welcome to the new Obamaland!!! Everything is not my fault !! Just wait till summer when thousands if not millons haven't paid their bills. Riots will happen.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by invisiblewoman
yes ,no one knows if he was an old bast*&d or whether he he was just so old that everyone he ever had died or if his wife died ,or if his kids or grand kids are selfish jerks and don't want to help him because they just want to buy a new flat screen TV...

...the idea that its' okay with you for the utility company to condemn an old man to a horrible lonely death says more about you than him


You are correct I'm a realist and this stuff happens all the time. Again, where are you going to draw the line at? You cant say well he was 93 so let him ride for free until spring and then turn around and say a 25 year old who lost his job and has no family should not be saved also. And then from there its well everyone should just get free power its our god given right. And also we have tons of deaths every summer from heat when people get their power turned off.

I would love to live in a Utopian communist society ( cant work but dream with me) that everyone took care of each other and did the jobs they were good at or loved and when you get old you have done your bit for the world and are respected and cared for in your retirement. I would love for this but it just wont happen.

I'm amazed at how many people post in threads just like these up on their pedestals yet they do nothing for the world they live in to change it. This thread has more people up in arms and sobbing then when just recently there was a gas dispute in Europe that left far more with heat and probably had many more deaths. If people don't like how things are then don't support it. If you think what power company's do is wrong then buy your self solar panels and wind generators and stop funding them. Companys provide products to make money just like most work for money, don't fault them for operating in the rules of the systems you help support.

And to the people say ohh well its just 1 guy that would be like 1000 dollars at most. 1k is a ton of money when you start to multiply it by all the people that fall behind on their bills. If that same electric company cant pay its employee's or its creditors they get shut off just as well.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by whoshotJR]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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After rethinking,I think the neighbors should be charged with neglect . They did watch over the guy but did nothing till it was too late. 2nd degree murder charges at the very least should be sought against the people in the neighborhood



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by mikellmikell
After rethinking,I think the neighbors should be charged with neglect . They did watch over the guy but did nothing till it was too late. 2nd degree murder charges at the very least should be sought against the people in the neighborhood


Do you realize what door this would open? I'm betting you didn't think about what your suggesting.

What if your neighbor hangs himself or commits suicide, should you be held accountable? I mean you should have watched for it and seen the signs and offer help. But now you would be going to jail.

What if your neighbor is a total jerk and pisses in your lawn every day and you want nothing to do with him. Should you be charged if he can't pay his bills and dies but you didn't check on him?

And the other side of this. Say I'm now your neighbor, if I can be held liable for you being killed because you don't pay your bills then I think I should be able to know all your finances and where you are spending your money. Well that's probably not going to fly but maybe by your thinking the government should be monitoring all your spending to ensure your not going to put yourself in trouble with what you like to buy.


This goes on and on. Some things in life suck and this is one of them. But there is no reason to punish somebody for murder of this guy.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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One huge issue I'd like clarification on before I comment on this story is whether or not any contact was attempted by the electric company, either through phone calls, letters, or otherwise. If they made attempts to contact the man, told him his bill was outrageously past due (over $1,000), warned him about a pending shutoff, etc, and the man made no attempt to rectify the situation or make payment arraingements or seek assistance, then as harsh as it sounds, it's his own fault. The electric company doesn't employ mind readers, so if he didn't communicate with them I don't see why they're to blame for simply protecting their interests from theft.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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As long as the companies that control our needs only care about money then this will always be a bad planet to live in.

There will be change one way or another because people won't take this for too long.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by whoshotJR
 


My thoughts are this,not going to draw any lines ,just saying,everyone dropped the ball

nearby neighbors never thought to watch out for the old guy
power company ,is not technically at fault but certainly should be aware that without heat people can die

my local response to this would be to lobby the power company to keep a vulnerable accounts system
we have something like that hear where elderly on fixed incomes can get direct pay and have there bill adjusted so it is always the same throughout the year

and maybe just post an occasional newspaper ad encouraging people to watch out for vulnerable people when conditions are very cold very hot or some other disaster happens

like I said I do this and it really doesn't take all that much time out of your life,it really doesn't



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by whoshotJR

Originally posted by invisiblewoman
yes ,no one knows if he was an old bast*&d or whether he he was just so old that everyone he ever had died or if his wife died ,or if his kids or grand kids are selfish jerks and don't want to help him because they just want to buy a new flat screen TV...

...the idea that its' okay with you for the utility company to condemn an old man to a horrible lonely death says more about you than him


You are correct I'm a realist and this stuff happens all the time. Again, where are you going to draw the line at? You cant say well he was 93 so let him ride for free until spring and then turn around and say a 25 year old who lost his job and has no family should not be saved also. And then from there its well everyone should just get free power its our god given right. And also we have tons of deaths every summer from heat when people get their power turned off.


You draw the line where a customer under a contract with you is going to be placed in mortal danger as a result of your actions. It's not really brain surgery.

It's not about giving people a free ride. There are a number of ways this could have been dealt with. Choosing to take an action that places a person in a situation where they are likely to die is not right and, if death occurs, is generally manslaughter.


A person of his age can not be expected to go outside in the middle of winter, likely in the evening, to operate equipment that controls the mains power of a house.

The lines can be drawn right where they're supposed to be, it's not some arbitrary unknown. And if there is any disagreement during the policy making, as usual that can be worked out.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by SilentOne
 

put in the energy efficent bulbs. I only pay $60.00 a month for my three bedroom home.
I am serious dont let the big companies rip you off.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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I guess he should have paid his damn bill. Yes he is old. Yes he died. But it's not our fault he died. The city had every right to shut it off. What they did imo is just fine. He could have gone and lived in a shelter if he couldn't afford heat.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by leisuredrummer
 


you obviously have your own views which no matter what i or anyone else says will change


but what i speak of and the topic u bring up are complexly different stories

yes we have deregulation, but that still doesnt come close to offering us the amount of options we have with grocery stores

and in a way yes, i do look down on grocery stores for people going hungry and dying because everyday they throw away vast amounts of food just because they arent "perfect" consumer quality, so they take them off the shelves and dump them in the trash

some stores work with shelters and places that provide food for those in need

but in todays world with all the lawsuits and bs, if something isnt perfect, even though it is still edible and nutritious they throw it away to avoid lawsuits

people who are dying do not care if the banana is bruised, they just want to live

with what we spend on completely foolish areas of life, we could EASILY eradicate hunger and still have a thriving economy, comparably that is a relatively cheap thing to get rid of

yet politics and hard headed people with a lack of compassion for humanity prevents that from happening

aside from spending the "big bucks" and actually eradicating world hunger, we could do something simple here in our own country where we just put up signs for food banks and places those less fortunate can go, we can put these signs right in the 1st place they would look for food, we can put them right in the grocery stores and the fast food restaurants where nightly they dispose of food that is perfectly good directing these people in need where to go to get help

there are simple solutions if people would stop holding on to such draconian ideology and ways of life



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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the last thing i have to say on this thread is simple


the lack of humanity is truly disgusting

the only thing i can possibly hope for is karma


we are all entitled to our own opinions, but as all members of the human race, if we cant have opinions based on compassion for our fellow inhabitants of this earth

then this is not a earth any of us deserve



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by whoshotJR

I'm amazed at how many people post in threads just like these up on their pedestals yet they do nothing for the world they live in to change it.



I'm even more amazed that people like you who don't have a clue about what the rest of us do, want to lecture us about our discourse on the subject and provide absolutely no solution and have no sympathy for a fellow human being who clearly needed help.

The fact is Mr. JRdoesn'texist some of us do protest and some of us do take legal actions and stand up for human rights. We come to places like this not to run our mouths and then forget about it - we come to find like minded people and bounce ideas off each other to make our world better.

Don't belive me? Fine U2U your email address and I'll forward the email I received from my State attorney General last Friday about a complaint I filed against another lovely Greedy American Corporation.

So, save you lectures for someone else and go fight the good fight or take it elsewhere.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by verylowfrequency
 


If you read what you quoted I didn't say every person. If that was the case then this wouldn't be my favorite site to read.

You sir are exactly the opposite of the type of person I'm refereeing to it would seem. But if you look at what some people are posting in here they think they can have their cake and eat it to. You cant yell about the government or company's not stepping in or saying the neighbors should be charged with murder and then in another thread post about how you wish the government would stay out of everyone's lives and how FEMA is going to round us up and burn us in their camps. It's just not logical.

Again it sucks this guy died. It sucks when anyone dies over something as silly as money but its up to us to do something about it not the company's we buy electricity from or uncle Sam.

Sadly I will turn 29 this year and it took me this long to realize how the American dream is for most people to live outside their means. It took me buying a 3200 sq ft home to realize how pointless and greedy that really is because nobody needs a house like that. I have wasted so much money only to realize that my goal should be to live off the grid to my own means and enjoy life rather then the things I buy in life. If everyone started to think this way you wouldn't read about stuff like this and nobody would be trying to place the blame and pointing fingers because they would realize when they point that finger they have 3 more pointing back at themselves and that's truly the only person you can hold accountable.




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