All in one thread to help those in search of SitX Firearms & Ammo!

Hey guys...I have read quite a few posts on ATS about SitX and what guns & ammo would be best to have, own, shoot, etc... during such time. I have heard MANY of you mention some VERY impractible weapons. I have heard mention of getting calibers that just don't cut it. Hard to find, no more stopping power then your common rounds, etc...

I want to use my person experiance from the military & law enforcement to help you guys out. Having been in combat, understanding the conditions that weapons MUST survive in and knowing first hand what weapons WILL fail when pushed, I can give you what I and almost all combat veterans will tell you is the FINAL list for survival. Can you buy or have more outside what I recommend...sure can. Just remember, there are MANY factors most people forget or don't know about...and once the SHTF...you'll realize that your ideas aren't going to work.

1. WEAPONS

Primary Rifles:

AK-47: Most crude and durable weapon on the planet. Dirt, mud, rough terrain, abuse, etc...this rifle WILL continue to perform under any conditon. Also, very easy to field strip and clean. Parts for this weapon are abundant. So for true SitX purposes...VERY PRACTICAL! Ammo is EVERYWHERE! Other STRONG feature...ammo can be corrosive or non-corrosive and does NOT have to be in perfect condition to fire. Also can be equipped with various accessories (sites, grips, scopes, etc...)

Rating: 5 Stars *****


AR-15: Built with more presicion in mind. More accurate then the AK but WILL NOT function as well under certain conditions. It will need to be cleaned and field stripped more often. The weapon is so popular, like the AK, that parts for this weapon can be found all over and interchanged..so thats a plus. Ammo is also in abundance. This weapon will fire most ammo and in various conditions but again will require the weapon to be cleaned more often. Can also be equipped with MANY accessories (scopes, sites, grips, lasers, etc...)

Rating: 4 Stars ****


Specialty Types:

These two weapons aren't going to be AS practical but they WILL serve a purpose and help you survive. They will also do the job in a pinch.

12 Gauge Shotgun: This weapon is pure destruction. It has a very close range effective to 50 yards and in depending on ammo. It does not require much maintenance, cleaning is minimal, and the mechanics of the weapon are SIMPLE! Semi auto's are nice but then you run the risk of failure. Pump action failures are VERY rare unless its some very cheap brand of shotgun. Ammo is cheap and availible anywhere. Killing power is impressive, but the down side is your body WILL take a beating from the recoils. My advise is...if you can have one/carry one...its worth the extra weight. Also VERY effective as the primary hunting weapon while you conserve your other ammo.

Rating: 5 Stars ***** (depending on use)


.22 Long Rifle: This weapon is the cheapest you can find. It will kill when used right. It will allow you to create distance or deter a situation before it gets out of hand. The weapon WILL NOT serve as an assualt style weapon but in a pinch will get you out of a jam. Ammo is cheap and can be stockpiled unlike any other. Field stripping them is based on the model/make. It can be a pain or easy...but usually not bad. Also not hard to clean either. Durability is always questionable. If its a bolt action .22 you should be fine, outside that you run the risk of failure. But again..in a pinch...PERFECT!

Rating: 3 Stars ***


Pistols

Glock: Ultra reliable and durable. This pistol is like the AK rifle. Crudly made. It doesn't fail unless you limp wrist it. It wasn't made to be super accurate so that means it can and will take a beating in and condition and keep firing. The ammo can be in almost ANY condition. As long as the slide can chamber the round, it WILL fire. Unlike other top of the line pistols which once dirty, or the ammo isn't perfect/in new condition, it will misfeed or fail. Parts for the glock are easy to get and the weapon is stupid simple to field strip and clean. Not a very heavy weapon and te recoil is easy to control for all ages/sexes/sizes.

Rating: 5 Stars *****


H&K USP: Another VERY reliable weapon that is accurate and can take a beating. The weapons recoil system is the best on the market. It will keep firing in ALMOST all conditions but has a tendancy to misfeed in wet mud. Easy to clean and maintain so that cancles out its minor flaws. It will also force dirty/corrosive ammo. That as you noticed is key when it comes to weapons. Not to heavy, but is heavier then the Glock...but still an awesome peice.

Rating: 4 Stars ****

---------------------------------------------

2. Ammo

Here is the bottom line. There are a TON of calibers out there. You can pick and choose but you have to consider the following.
- Abundance: How easily obtained can it be. What will your fellow SitX people be carrying, and what will your enemy carry so you can take their ammo after doing what you need to.
- Weight: You are going to be lugging MOST of this around. If you have a storage place then great...hope its hidden well. Since you WILL be carrying it you need to understand the size and weight. Example of my loadout: 300 rounds .223 / 90 rounds .40

My advice:

Rifles: 7.62x39 / .223
Pistols: 9mm / .40

thats it....outside of that (besides the 12G shotgun and .22) your risking it.

I hope this helped you decide what you need or more imprtantly what is tried and true in harsh conditions and proven to work. I hope SitX never comes, but if it does...GOOD LUCK YA'LL!!

Excellent list. I totally agree on all weapons listed. I tell everyone that asks me this exact same list with the exception of the HK USP, I actually prefer the 1911 due to the vast amount of available parts. All in all this list of weapons and ammo is by far the easiest to obtain as well as maintain.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by SpaDe_]

I prefer the FN FAL over the AK-47 personally. I look forward to getting one. Great post, trading in my USP for a glock, already have a kimbler 1911 .acp, no point in having 2 45's

The 1911 is good..and proven but I have shot one and beat it a little and it did malfunction. It is a great pistol, just not my choice.

As for FN's...VERY hard to get parts...and they do break. Been there...the FN249 and FN240B were two weapons I shot the hell out of...and both failed many times.

Great thread!
MAke one for crossbows and knives!!!

I agree in the spirit and helpfulness of the thread but disagree with the fact that most on the survival boards are civilians and believe it or not the weapons you mentioned are expensive and hard to get except the 22LR and 12GA.

Ive personally hate the feel of the AR and like even less the feel of the AK. My personal preference is the Mini-14 I am also a 1911 fan and owner. Just my opinion of things.

I agree if you look for something NEW or from Avid dealers. I was just to a gun show outside Atlanta and these are the best deals i saw.

- Bushmaster AR-15, used, good condition...no major blemishes, 3-30 round magazines...$350

- Glock 22 / 27 / 23, used, good condition...2 mags per pistol, $225 each.

So I know you can find TOP quality weapons if you look in the right places. SHOTGUN NEWS is a great source to find firearms at a great price.

ANGRYAmerican: The Mini-14 is a great weapon..no argument here...but finding parts in a pinch is my main concern.

One other thing I'd suggest is the Special Forces Viet Nam tomahawk.

Available even today, and can be found on internet.

A more useful, more flexible tool cannot be found anywhere.

And it's not particular about cleaning and will never misfire.

reply to post by rcwj75


Star for you my friend. I actually have all these on my list of items to get before the PAW.

Feel free to add some sexy knives to your list. I know I love Gerber Brand knives. Sharp point. Stays sharp 3 or 4 times longer than other knives.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Tentickles]

Great post and great choices.

One addition from a .22 rifle person... Buy the Rugar 10/22 if you are buying a semi-auto. Tons of accessories and it chews threw even crappy walmart ammo without a problem (which will not work well in a mossburg plinkster, most .22 pistols, or older tube fed models).

A cheap .22 is dumb and I have been dumb by trying to save $60 and buying crap. I learned my lesson the hard way. Get the Ruger.

Also, a buddy of mine picked up a Saiga semi-auto 12guage and it seems to be a great shotgun. Only issue of course is you cannot keep plastic rounds in the mag for long periods of time but a nice 10 round clip and less recoil and apparent reliability make this the next weapon on my shopping list.

Don't go cheap on an AR either... I admit I do not know much about Bushmaster but I have heard horror stories with DPMS & Armalite along the line of "you either get a good one or a POS) because the specs are not as tight (Rumor through the grapevine of course but I am not taking the chance) Colt & Rock River Arms are great but expensive.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by infolurker]

Just got and alert to an entirely new weapon that is beyond phenomenal.

It's electric, lightweight, super accurate, programmable, hand-held, and can fire .30 projectiles at 3,000 fps +, or even up to 8,000 fps, or can easily change over to .50 projectiles at the same velocities, without recoil, and one can have it feeding up to 120,000 rounds per minute.

It's called the DREAD, and since it's technically not a "firearm" as there is no gunpowder involved, I know what I'm thinking about . . .

Great post. I would personally go with an an ar15, No other rifle in this world has ever felt so natural to me. As far as a sidearm, I go with a glock26 9mm and a .45 1911. I will keep them both on me, the glock can hold 11rds and the most I could fit in my 1911 is 9 rds.

"Tacticool" .22's are so funny. Seen Ruger's "Tactical" Mini-14 yet? Just as ugly as that Tapcoed .22 in the pic. The only thing I hate more than Ruger is Ruger's Mini's.

These are all bread and butter arms. Anybody who collects (and doesnt live in a slave state) will probably end up with all of these and even some duplicates throughout their collecting career.

Something in 7.62 NATO would be nice if you live in an open plains area. Like an AR-10 or M-14. You can hit harder further and components for either should be fairly common.

Nice list of staples.

Either one of these will work around the house I suppose, depends on the range and target.


Ruger Mini-14 - 9mm


Epidermal Tissue Disruptor

reply to post by dooper

I think this is what you mean dooper.

Interesting looking weopon!

uk.youtube.com...

I would add the many good quality manufacturers of 1911 style automatic pistols in .45 ACP. The ammo and parts are common and plentiful, it has good power, and in my experience reliability is quite good as well.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by cropmuncher




weapon reminds me of that metalstorm or whatever that thing was on futureweapons with the stacked projectiles and multiple barrels.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by hotrodturbo7]

the physics geeks don't think it will work

physics dudes on the DREAD

I will also call that out for flakiest acronym ever

reply to post by hotrodturbo7


Ask any Army or Marine infantryman if they would like to assault a USAF air base or weapons convoy, and they will give you the same answer: Are you effing bug nuts? Air Base Ground Defense goes through the exact same infantry training as the Army does and then are taught how to defeat it. Air Force Ammo troops are currently driving convoys all over Iraq sitting right next to their Army counterparts. Again they're given the same training as the Army.

Back to the subject at hand: my firearms choices for SitX;

A well tuned SKS. I've fired both full auto and semi auto versions of various AK's and my personal SKS is a more accurate weapon. Huge aftermarket and plenty of parts for it. Can be modified to accept AK mag if necessary. The 7.62x 39mm is a better combat round than 5.56 NATO. End of story.

I favor both the 7.62x25mm Tokarev and .45 ACP over the 9mm. The old 'Tok' was the only modern combat round that could punch through the US issue Kevlar helmet in the Box of Truth tests.. Too bad there's not more modern weapons chambered in the 'Tok'.

Get hit by a .45 ACP even with a vest on at close range and it will knock you breathless. or knock you out.

I think the Glock is very good gun but I'm leery of any polymer gun's ultimate durability. There are 100+ plus year old steel revolver that are still perfectly functional as weapons. I'll take a 1911 in .45 ACP.



[edit on 28-1-2009 by crgintx]

sorry, dude........

I loved the AF, but hated the endless powerpoints