home invasion thwarted by armed citizen.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by maybereal11

 

One every 3 hours? So in three hours time how many kids are not killed?

This "think of the children" crap is just that, crap. It clouds the reality with cheap emotion and petty sentiment.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by thisguyrighthere]

Crap? "Clouds the reality with cheap emotion and petty sentiment"? Like in the OP where in big bold letters the rape and murder of an eleven year old girl is highlighted????

You MIGHT be a safe gun owner who teaches and has been taught proper gun safety...might be, but the statistics dramatically show that safe and educated gun owners are the minority of gun owners.

Do you support gun restrictions and safety regulations to regulate and keep safe those gun owners who are not as versed in gun safety as yourself?

I am not even railing on about banning guns...I am telling the NRA as well as gun enthusiasts in general...If you want to preserve your right to bare arms...then police your own! Make sure that there are laws, regulations and mandatory gun safety programs in place for gun owners to keep people safe

....Not everyone is bastion of gun safety like yourself...actually I would venture a guess that every single one of the thousand or so accidental gun deaths last year were a relutant of folks who thought they were a perfect example of "safe" gun ownership as well.

Arrogance and complaceny like you have demonstrated...and a knee jerk reaction of "don't take my guns" to any discussion about bettering the laws regarding gun safety and sales..are exactly what is wrong with the pro-gun lobby and the NRA.

And YES...I own firearms. Geez...grow up.

Originally posted by Ismail
Well I do find it kind of weird how some americans think it's ok to kill a guy for trying to steal their TV... It's kind of frightening because it shows how much some of you value life. (I.E. less that a TV, whats that, 100 $ for a good one ? )

Well I'll be sure to lower my weapon and let them go on about their business, as long as when they bust through my door they're wearing a big sign that says "DON'T SHOOT, I'M ONLY GOING TO STEAL YOUR TV".

C'mon really, are you THAT short sighted? Do you really think that when someone kicks in your door, or crashes through your window, that you have any idea whatsoever about what their actual intentions are?

The bottom line is this, I don't care if you're here to borrow a cup of sugar, steal my things, or something worse, if you're enter my home uninvited, especially via some violent means of entry like kicking in my door, the only way you're going to avoid getting shot is to be faster with yours than I am with mine.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by Reaper106

 

As I said. A police officer does have to make sure the suspect is carrying a gun before he shoots.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Ismail]

Or a cell phone, or a wallet or anything or nothing.

All the cops have to do is say "I felt threatened" or "He was reaching for something"

The cops have killed plenty of people reaching to pull up their pants.

I love this "holier than thou" cop crap. The imaginary notion that the police "have" to do this or that or "must" abide by some pretend code of conduct or receive some sort of special training no doubt taught by unicorns is what makes the cops so dangerous to the ordinary citizen.

From working with many cops I can tell you their quals are a joke, their "training" is largely how not to get sued and how not to look like a complete idiot in the eyes of the public, their criteria for killing you or me is that they feel "justifiably threatened."

I'm sure all the family pets they shot and killed were packing some serious heat.

Off-duty cop shoots neighbors dog

Pretending cops are special or even assuming they give a rats ass about your well-being makes them incredibly dangerous.

Originally posted by WhamBamTYM
" And the vast majority of robberies are perpetrated for cash, not to rape and kill."

Your cash and your belongings are like pieces of your being! It took your time, your life, your energy and your effort to collect those belongings. This makes them more than just things.

"You buy furniture. You tell yourself, this is the last sofa I will ever need in my life. Buy the sofa, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your sofa issue handled. Then the right set of dishes. Then the perfect bed. The drapes. The rug. Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you."

Think about it my friend.... the sooner the better.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by WhamBamTYM

 

Allow me to state that I do not consider what I own to be more important than another human's life. Be he a criminal.

I agree with your outlook one hundred percent.
But if that person is threatening me harm or worse.... is there even a question?

It's not like you bumped into this person on the street and can walk away.
It's not road rage or something that can be avoided.
This is you sleeping in your home..... then BAM
someone's in your house and they aren't going to be sweethearts.

reply to post by vor78



I appreciate the clarification on the statistics..and responding in a sane fashion.

If a gun owner is genuinely worried about self defense...let's take a shot at the source...any intelligent suggestions on how to reduce gun related homicides and accidental deaths?

For example there are gun dealers making alot of money selling alot of weapons illegally in the inner city to teenagers, criminals and gang members...how are those dealers getting weapons in volume? How are they able to do what they do? How do we reduce it?

How do we reduce accidental shootings?

reply to post by Unit541


If they have gone through the trouble to come this far, kick in my door, smash in my window, do what it takes to illegally get on and in the property, then what else, what next?

In a flash you think you are going to know what the intruders there for, what he will and won't do, and what he's trying to "acquire."

While you're at it. I'd like to know how the robber is feeling to...
Tell me about his childhood and what caused him to do this..... stress maybe?

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Allegory of Illumination]

Originally posted by maybereal11

Crap? "Clouds the reality with cheap emotion and petty sentiment"? Like in the OP where in big bold letters the rape and murder of an eleven year old girl is highlighted????

The OP by highlighting that line is pulling the same crap in the opposite direction. CRAP.

Do you support gun restrictions and safety regulations to regulate and keep safe those gun owners who are not as versed in gun safety as yourself?

No

I am not even railing on about banning guns...I am telling the NRA as well as gun enthusiasts in general...If you want to preserve your right to bare arms...then police your own! Make sure that there are laws, regulations and mandatory gun safety programs in place for gun owners to keep people safe

Gun safety used to be a part of every school curriculum and family life until all this "guns are scary" garbage demonized the things and shoved them off into some dark corner or mystery and ignorance. We wouldnt have to force mandatory safety nonsense if these hoplophbes didnt make it so unsafe in the first place. Besides, what's to know beyond "point this end at what you want to kill"? By the way, I am a certified NRA safety and pistol instructor as well as a Range Safety Officer.

....Not everyone is bastion of gun safety like yourself...actually I would venture a guess that every single one of the thousand or so accidental gun deaths last year were a relutant of folks who thought they were a perfect example of "safe" gun ownership as well.

You know what? Sh*t happens. That's the chance we take in being alive.

And YES...I own firearms. Geez...grow up.

Due to recent "Civility and Decorum" concerns I'll let that one slide.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by thisguyrighthere]

reply to post by maybereal11


The only thing that can be done is to improve the socio-economic status of people living in our inner cities and the best way to do that will be through promoting better education in those areas and thereby providing them the tools to achieve a better life. That's about it, unfortunately, and I'm not sure how receptive many of them will be.

In terms of criminal prosecution, stopping the influx of illegal weapons will prove to be about as possible as stopping illegal drug imports. Its not going to happen. About the only thing we can do is start locking up violent felons long-term with no possibility of parole. The same applies to anyone selling weapons illegally. Plus, we need to stop imprisoning petty criminals and pot heads, as this inevitably turns them to worse crimes when they're released.

Most illegal weapons that are being used in these inner-city areas are not being shipped in from overseas by terrorists or sold out of some corner bodega by a shady pawn dealer. They are generally guns that were stolen during burglaries or car break ins then sold to gangs and others.

Originally posted by Ismail

Allow me to state that I do not consider what I own to be more important than another human's life. Be he a criminal.

You just have to be British.

The next time your door comes off its hinges at 2am, let's see if you cling to your principles or a Remington 870.

reply to post by djvexd


There's no doubt about it. Many of the illegal weapons in this country were stolen from law-abiding owners at some point in the past. That's certainly one of the ways they make it into the hands of criminals.

reply to post by Unit541


I'm just saying that the "shoot first ask questions later" seems to be a pretty irresponsible when the thing in your hand is made to kill. Warn the perp that you have a gun. Most people would just turn around and leave. Waiting in ambush as someone breaks down your door in order to get a clean head shot is plain criminal. If, once warned, the perp keeps on coming, then sure, plug him. But maybe not in the head. The point i'm trying to make is that I find nothing heroic about killing another man to protect your new stereo. Most burglars are there for the cash. Not to kill and rape. So glorifying the killing a man (which proves in any case how deconected with the reality of killing most of these gun whielders are) who will run away in the vast majority of case seems symptomatic of a sick wacko society.

reply to post by Retseh


Nope, not british. And I certainly wouldn't cling to a remmington. Too messy and loud for close quarters, especially in the dark, you'd blind yourself with the first shot. Which isn't good if there are several agressors who as you appear to thinkare ready to engage you in a gun fight.

Originally posted by Ismail
Well I do find it kind of weird how some americans think it's ok to kill a guy for trying to steal their TV... It's kind of frightening because it shows how much some of you value life. (I.E. less that a TV, whats that, 100 $ for a good one ? )

****

I'm just saying that the "shoot first ask questions later" seems to be a pretty irresponsible when the thing in your hand is made to kill. Warn the perp that you have a gun. Most people would just turn around and leave. Waiting in ambush as someone breaks down your door in order to get a clean head shot is plain criminal. If, once warned, the perp keeps on coming, then sure, plug him. But maybe not in the head. The point i'm trying to make is that I find nothing heroic about killing another man to protect your new stereo. Most burglars are there for the cash. Not to kill and rape. So glorifying the killing a man (which proves in any case how deconected with the reality of killing most of these gun whielders are) who will run away in the vast majority of case seems symptomatic of a sick wacko society

Oh give me a break
How on Earth does the innocent home onwer know the intention of the criminal?? Oh wait, apparently you know the intentions of all break ins.

What if that criminal breaking in had no intention of "JUST" stealing a TV but wanted to rape or murder someone inside. What if that criminal is carrying a weapon and when they hear me decide to kill me?

Sorry, but you break in MY home, you lost all your rights. Period.


Sympathy for criminals always makes me want to vomit


[edit on 1/26/2009 by greeneyedleo]

IAfter 27+ years in law enforcement ii can assure you that IF they are willing to use force to enter your property while you arre present,and IF there are more than 2 of them...then the threat to your life increeases significantly. None of this TV shoot to wound crap either. Shoot them twice where they are the widest and if they do not cease their attempted predation upon you repeat until they do. e have too many beauty parlor and barber shop lawyers rtelling about their cosuin's neighbors next-door neighbor who went to jail for yada yada yada. With deference to the lady who was jailed for her daughter-in-law's actions. Usually if they do not belong there, they are not willing to leave your house alone knoowing someone is home then they are a serious threat. They will kill you as the devastated man in the new article learned. that is in new England if I am not mistaken where the 2nd amendment only applies to politicians bodyguards. If you do not stop them, if you could "wing" them ( not likely as i shhot expert scores but would not even try)they WILL come back. They will hurt you. they wil victimize your loved ones in your stead. Am armed society is a politer society unfortunatley but that iis the world we live in. An alarming number of these young manuifcxatured victims influenced by the gansta thug culture are armed, souless in their pursuit of victims and very very lethal. Ignore the reealities of this world at youe's and your families peril. Word to the wise is sufficient.

reply to post by vor78


I googled and found the answer to my question..The vast majority of illegal guns on the streets originate with "Straw Purchases"

Great link and explanation of how the illegal gun trade works...for anyone interested in where illegal guns originate.

www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org...

“Straw purchases are so easy it’s a no-brainer. Why buy a hot
gun on the street when you can easily do a straw purchase?”
— Former Miami gang member

This report presents findings from an investigation into one of the main ways criminals get guns: Straw purchases (when one person poses as the buyer of a gun that is actually for someone else).

A teenager is more likely to die from a gunshot than from all natural
causes of death combined. This is unacceptable in America.” 1
— President George W. Bush, 2001

“Virtually every crime gun in the United States starts off as a legal firearm,” according to then-Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) director Bradley Buckles in 2000.

ID REQUIREMENTS AREN’T EFFECTIVE
Traffickers can easily buy guns with false identification. Between October 2000 and
February 2001, the GAO conducted an investigation using counterfeit driver’s licenses with fake identifiers to purchase guns from licensed dealers in five states - Virginia, West Virginia, Montana, New Mexico and Arizona. Each of the five states conformed to the Brady law by requiring instant background checks and, for the most part, the dealers adhered to this requirement. However, because the purchasers used counterfeit IDs with fake identities, and because the verification procedures checked only for negative information in the database and did not verify authenticity, the GAO investigators were able to purchase guns.

GUNS STOLEN AND MISSING FROM DEALERS FEED ILLEGAL MARKET
In 2005, the ATF conducted inspections of more than 3,000 FFLs and found 12,274 firearms missing. Nearly all of the guns, 11,640, were missing from only 97 dealers. 85 This raises questions about the practices of those dealers, particularly given that the ATF has identified “significant or frequently reported firearms losses or thefts by an FFL” as “indicators of illegal trafficking.”

People on the FBI’s terroist watch list were able to buy guns in 47 out of 58 time they tried, according to the a GAO study published in 2005.

Whether it is a drug deal gone bad or a random robbery, he deserves to have been shot if not killed.

Just today my history teacher spoke of how a lion/tiger has its own territory and will kill those who enter it. He went on to say if someone enters his own home he will shoot and kill the intruder. A student talked back to him thinking that was absurd yet my teacher stood his ground. Made me feel a sense of pride knowing its not only the stereotyped redneck who agree.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Whether it is a drug deal gone bad or a random robbery, he deserves to have been shot if not killed.

Just today my history teacher spoke of how a lion/tiger has its own territory and will kill those who enter it. He went on to say if someone enters his own home he will shoot and kill the intruder. A student talked back to him thinking that was absurd yet my teacher stood his ground. Made me feel a sense of pride knowing its not only the stereotyped redneck who agree.

Maybe if we instead offer the criminal tea and cookies they would turn from their ways and go on their merry way never to be a nuisance to soceity again.

isn't it true if the robber is unarmed you can't shoot him/her? Or is it just in some states?

Originally posted by die_another_day
isn't it true if the robber is unarmed you can't shoot him/her? Or is it just in some states?

You can read up on "The Castle Doctrine" here:

en.wikipedia.org...

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

Castle Doctrines are legislated by state, and not all states in the US have a Castle Doctrine. The term "Make My Day Law" comes from the landmark 1985 Colorado statute that protects people from any criminal charge or civil suit if they use force - including deadly force - against an invader of the home.[1] The law's nickname is a reference to the famous line uttered by Clint Eastwood's character Dirty Harry in the 1983 film Sudden Impact, "Go ahead, make my day."

[edit on 1/26/2009 by greeneyedleo]