The British have something to say to us Americans!

Originally posted by Thistled
If tyrrany is a factor, then contingency plans are in place not only by the miltary, but also the monarchy. We have the best safety measures in place - IN THE WORLD.

You have got to be kidding me. Our military is underfunded and using equipment years out of date the only reason they're still going is that they are better trained than those of most countries. The monarchy has been stripped of all their power all that is left is a reminder of how great we were and how far we have fallen. Safety measures my arse. Our borders are unguarded, our soldiers ill-equppied and underpaid, our government corrupt to the core. In the terms you are talking about I feel about as safe as a chicken in a fox den.

Look at a prison... Dangerous people in a "controlled" environment under strict observation so many rules..people still get murdered, beat, raped.. My point is no matter how strict the rules, how close guards or police are to you to respond when you are in need it is your responsibility to protect you and your family.. YOU ARE THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENCE. Its every citizens duty to be prepared and act before you or what is yours is stolen or a victim or worse a statistic.

I worked with a lady and she told me back in the 70's she was at home alone when a man broke into her house. She ran and grabbed her husbands .45 and shot the man after he kicked the bedroom door down. She didn't kill him immediately but only shot him in the lung and he was dying on the floor when the police arrived. The police said he might sue you, we can wait to call the ambulance so she made a pot of coffee and he bled out shortly after.. Its sad that you might be sued for acting perfectly in self defence well within your rights in your own home.

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." - B. Franklin

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." S. Freud

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty." -Adolf Hitler

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." -Mao Tse Tung

"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." -Admiral Yamamoto

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -John F. Kennedy

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -The Dalai Lama

“There's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them.” -Israeli Police Inspector General Shlomo Aharonisky

"The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities." -Daniel Schmutter

"A free people ought to be armed." -George Washington

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." -Thomas Jefferson

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." -Noah Webster

"A WELL REGULATED militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." -James Madison

reply to post by Stryker211


"A free people ought to be armed." -George Washington
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Wasn't it also George Washington who said that the people shouldn't be afraid of it's government, the government should be afraid of it's people? Very wise words and they may be reason that Obama is considering taking away your guns? After all, once you've been disarmed, like us here in the UK, you have no way to fight back against tyranny in whatever shape it comes in.

reply to post by Stryker211


AMEN, Brother. All you anti gun folks would change you minds the first time your home was broken in to and was face to face with a real life or death situation.

Go ahead swing those lamps, if you can get close enough!!

like I said before why don't you all hang GUN FREE ZONE signs in your windows and let us know how that works out for ya!!!

Originally posted by RussianScientists


The British people are suffering a terrible tyrrany nowadays without having guns,.......

I'm afraid etiquette prevents me from writing what I said at my screen when I read this complete total absolute utter unbelievable rubbish.

I showed folks behind me here at work and they laughed out load exclaiming " what a ........".

Oh by the way that video is a few years old and guess what: the countryside is still there as it always was but the foxes are a little happier now that they are not torn to shreds by dogs. Apparently chickens and lambs get attacked by foxes who manage to out fox (sorry ;-) ) the farmer. Although photographic evidence is rarer than hens teeth (sorry ;-) ). The most dangerous animal for sheep in recent years was the "human being" dressed as a farmer who poured boiling water on the livestock to imitate the sores of foot and mouth so they could get compensation (ie sell all their stock immediately!!!!!!).

reply to post by RussianScientists

Malcr:

I echo your statement exactly and furthermore...

...It's baffling me no end. I CANNOT believe I've trudged through 12 pages of this utter nonsense, when the video embedded into the OP was about fox hunting! I mean, honestly, are some contributors to this thread having a laugh. It's almost inconceivable that this video would lead to SOME U.S. posters sporting on about fire-arms, and ''their rights to have fire-arms''....do me a favour chum, put the erectus-genetalia egos aside, it's primitive behaviour at best, and darn right insulting to some of civilised folk.

Allow me to have my say in response to SOME of the posters here. SOME have cleverly interpreted the OP video for what it is, a video about a ban on fox hunting (which, to that end, my opinion is neither here or there - I have friends/acquaintences that were on both sides of that argument). Others, however, clearly have digested the subtle tones of propaganda and have been led astray to what can only be described as an irrational perception on how, we as Britons, are somehow ripped clean of our rights!

Ludicrous, would be one choice word at this moment in time.

I'm not going to mull over the stats on gun crimes, our civil liberties (or lack thereof - as apparent in some instances), here in the UK. Frankly, I won't waste my time on such tangental discussions that are entirely irrelevant to the ACTUAL content of that video either. But it needs to be pointed out to those FEW of you over the pond, attempting to convince us that we'd need a gun in a sticky situation.

I live in a part of the country in Midlands, UK, somewhat rural middle-class by general description and to suggest for one moment that a fire-arm is necessary a) for protection from criminals, and b) in case the government ceases my ''liberties''...is, by and large utterly ludicrous.

Oh look, that word again.

I have no illusions to the generalised violence that we experience here in the UK, nor do I percieve that we live entirely crime free, but the areas that incidents of knife ( and in VERY rare instances - guns) occur, they are so few and far between and usually dealt with accordingly.

You ask your everyday Briton on the street, ethinical origin included and the answer to a typical question like ''Do you think UK citizens should own fire-arms?'' for any of the above posted reasons the answer would probably be: ''Not on your life mate!''

PEACE

reply to post by BAZ752


I have no illusions to the generalised violence that we experience here in the UK, nor do I percieve that we live entirely crime free, but the areas that incidents of knife ( and in VERY rare instances - guns) occur, they are so few and far between and usually dealt with accordingly.
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I strongly disagree with you. Every night we are treated to news stories of how some innocent kid has been stabbed or how someone going about their everyday business ends up on a mortuary slab due to being shot. We are subjected to this every night! What's more our out of date, under staffed police force is unable to deal with the rise in gun and knife crime. More than half of these crimes go unpunished. Dealt with accordingly! I hope you are joking?

Originally posted by malcr
Oh by the way that video is a few years old and guess what: the countryside is still there as it always was but the foxes are a little happier now that they are not torn to shreds by dogs.

One that video is less than a year old. Two foxes are an increased threat to livestock now except in the few areas willing to risk prosecution in order to protect their livelihoods and traditions. Do you live in the countryside? Maybe you should try it? Try talking to farmers and people who live in the country and see their views on it. I believe you will find that you are mistaken.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


i dont know what part of england you live in, in 2008 we had a grand total of 42 gun related deaths, not even 1 per week, americas gun related deaths for 2005 were about 31000, approximatly 55% were suicide but that still leaves an enormous figure, definitly the way for england?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


No I'm not joking.

Firstly, yes I would agree with a lot of your response there. I note that you're from Liverpool or surrounding, and like MANY UK cities, tend to be subject to a greater, much greater levels of crime and many of those go essentially unpunsihed to what would normally be deserved justice. However, let's assume, for arguments sake, that we take a mild proportion of the UK population taken from cities or highly urbanised areas, then yes, you're making a valid point, but what about the vast percentage of other parts of the country? I'm in no way conceding that crime (to the extent we're discussing here) doesn't happen outside of highly urban areas, but it IS rare.

I'm not suggesting that you personally haven't experienced or witnessed crime greater than I have, so please discard any presumption that that is the case.

Liverpool, Birmingham, Newcastle, Cardiff, Swansea, London, Glasgow, Manchester etc etc all have big problems with crimes similar to those extents we've discussed earlier, that is a fact, but I can not and will not except the UK as a whole experiences anything remotely near to that. I'm sorry, it's a generalised statement to suggest that because a city experiences heavy crime (knife or gun related) echos the UK as a whole.

It does not.

PEACE

P.S.

reply to post by BAZ752


Liverpool, Birmingham, Newcastle, Cardiff, Swansea, London, Glasgow, Manchester etc etc all have big problems with crimes similar to those extents we've discussed earlier, that is a fact, but I can not and will not except the UK as a whole experiences anything remotely near to that. I'm sorry, it's a generalised statement to suggest that because a city experiences heavy crime (knife or gun related) echos the UK as a whole
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I see you are from the Nottingham area which suffers a lot from gun and knife crime just like here in Liverpool. I take your point about not believing that because crime is up in any particular city then it's has to be up right across the country, but you have to agree that statistics have to be taken in the major suburbs. It wouldn't be realistic to try and get a country wide view of crime by asking the good people of Snowdonia or the Highlands of Scotland because they are sparcely inhabited and have less chance of coming across gun and knife crime. Therefore you have to study whats going on in the cities and it is there that you see these remarkably high instances of violent crime. That is why I am with the pro gun lobby. The police are over stretched and unmanned. If they can't protect us from these scumbags then we should at least be given a fair chance and be allowed to protect ourselves.
However I do respect your point of view and understand where you're coming from.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Ah, I see we're reaching an even keel with this, and it's encouraging.

I more than accept that some counties and cities police forces ARE struggling with resources (in all contexts), and Nottingham alike has experienced it's fair share of gun-crime...almost entirely gang related (as is often the case with these crimes).

I happen to know a chappy who works for Nottinghamshire Police - recently moved from Manchester in fact. I bet you didn't know that Nottinghamshire Constabulary's primary focal on revenue (should we call it revenue?) is actually drink-driving above anything else? He claims that Nottingham has been grossly maimed as the UK's ''gun-crime capital''. He can and has vouched that Manchester's figures are almost a quarter perctage higher that of Nottingham (even over the past 10 years)....OK, I'm not going to badger the chap for evdience, but he recognises this through his own experiences and discussions with fellow Constables.

Interesting point that. However, back to topic...

I should have probably refrained from forming my original opinion, but the way I saw the thread going, I felt compelled to add my piece.

This should have actually panned out into a propaganda based thread - because it appears to me to be the very undertone of that video in the OP.

PEACE

British seem like they let their government walk all over them...

Looks like the Brits need to get their hands on some of those 300,000 illegal fire arms and change things a bit!

Originally posted by BAZ752
However, let's assume, for arguments sake, that we take a mild proportion of the UK population taken from cities or highly urbanised areas, then yes, you're making a valid point, but what about the vast percentage of other parts of the country? I'm in no way conceding that crime (to the extent we're discussing here) doesn't happen outside of highly urban areas, but it IS rare.

I live in an extremely rural area. I would put the population of my village at no more than 150. However there have been several robberies in the past couple of years where the total amount stolen adds up to many £10,000s. Now insurance companies are going to make it hard on you if you ask for a payout of that magnitude. Thats the first problem. Then you have people who are emotionally affected by having their homes and properties broken into. We have had quad-bikes taken-imagine the amount of work that goes into maintaining a piece of machinery like that over the years. We have had several cases where ride-on mowers and other large pieces of kit have been taken. We have a young couple trying to renovate an old barn to live in who have had all their kit stolen. Imagine that you are spending £1,000s trying to make yourself a home and someone breaks in and steals your machines. Try getting an insurance company to replace several expensive construction machines. We have had people so scared of the robbers breaking into their homes that a couple of teenagers looking for their dog were reported by a man fearing for his property and that of his neighbours. I know this for real as I have close ties to one.

So do you really think that outside cities is so crime-free. Maybe you should wake-up look around and see what is really going on.

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
British seem like they let their government walk all over them...

We do. And most people refuse to see it. The government lies manipulates statistics and abuses rights but most people do not wish to see what is going on. Even my own parents who see what is going on in this country do not wish to act strongly. People refuse to accept it because then they would have to act decisively and they do not want to.

Originally posted by Cauch1

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
British seem like they let their government walk all over them...

We do. And most people refuse to see it. The government lies manipulates statistics and abuses rights but most people do not wish to see what is going on. Even my own parents who see what is going on in this country do not wish to act strongly. People refuse to accept it because then they would have to act decisively and they do not want to.

it seems like your government has been compromised

NWO?

I think denial is a very common thing for a lot of people. They keep it all bottled up and pretend like it isn't happening.

Liberals did it for 8 years in America

Pretended like the Democrats couldn't stop the Iraq war

Pretended like the Democrats were on their side

Like the Democrats weren't as fully responsible as the rest of the crooks.

reply to post by BAZ752


I more than accept that some counties and cities police forces ARE struggling with resources (in all contexts), and Nottingham alike has experienced it's fair share of gun-crime...almost entirely gang related (as is often the case with these crimes).
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You're so right. here is exactly the same. Most of the gun crime is between gangs but it's us innocent bystanders who are being caught in the crossfire. Isn't it bizarre that the criminals have the semi and automatic guns while the police fight back with a baton and gas? The worlds gone mad!
Like I said, the police can't protect us (hell, they cannot even protect themselves from this type of crime) so I think we honestly should be able to take a stand and protect ourselves and our families, and if that means owning a gun- so be it..
Respect.

Originally posted by Cauch1

Originally posted by BAZ752
However, let's assume, for arguments sake, that we take a mild proportion of the UK population taken from cities or highly urbanised areas, then yes, you're making a valid point, but what about the vast percentage of other parts of the country? I'm in no way conceding that crime (to the extent we're discussing here) doesn't happen outside of highly urban areas, but it IS rare.

I live in an extremely rural area. I would put the population of my village at no more than 150. However there have been several robberies in the past couple of years where the total amount stolen adds up to many £10,000s. Now insurance companies are going to make it hard on you if you ask for a payout of that magnitude. Thats the first problem. Then you have people who are emotionally affected by having their homes and properties broken into. We have had quad-bikes taken-imagine the amount of work that goes into maintaining a piece of machinery like that over the years. We have had several cases where ride-on mowers and other large pieces of kit have been taken. We have a young couple trying to renovate an old barn to live in who have had all their kit stolen. Imagine that you are spending £1,000s trying to make yourself a home and someone breaks in and steals your machines. Try getting an insurance company to replace several expensive construction machines. We have had people so scared of the robbers breaking into their homes that a couple of teenagers looking for their dog were reported by a man fearing for his property and that of his neighbours. I know this for real as I have close ties to one.

So do you really think that outside cities is so crime-free. Maybe you should wake-up look around and see what is really going on.

I think you need to read my statement more clearly before even suggesting that I need to wake up chum.

Let me get something straight here, I pointed out - as ABOVE, take a look, no, in fact i'll quote it again: ''I'm in no way conceding that crime (to the extent we're discussing here) doesn't happen outside of highly urban areas, but it IS rare.''

Now let's examine my words, why? Because it irritates me when people do not read. I said ''(to the extent we're discussing here)'' - meaning high levels of knife and gun crime - as I pointed out to mintwithahole several posts back.

I understand what you've said in your post, and that sort of crime does exist, it's a very common occurance, I didn't say it wasn't man!

PEACE