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The U.S. and UK Are on the Brink of Debt Disaster

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posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 04:24 AM
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Tariffs are really designed to make a level playing field in theory but the reality is quite different. As stated before all it does is cause an economic shoving match between countries. Both of which point their finger at the others forgetting three fingers point back at themselves.

The primes of the unions were to protect the employee from the unfair labor practices of the companies. However, the unions became the scourge of the working class by demanding excessive amounts from the employer without requiring the employee to produce at a higher level to compensate for the higher pay/perks.

The UAW is a prime example, this is unskilled labor working an assembly line and making $30+ dollars an hour. Since when is putting a part together on an assembly worth $4800 a month, its not. Then you wonder why the jobs went overseas. Try unions and greed. Would I give you $25,000 - $50,000 for a American built car, no. Because its not worth it. However, there was a time when we made great cars but that day has passed thanks to the unions.

Our products are so over priced its sickening. We can't afford anything unless its on credit, thank you greedy bankers. This is not to mean that I do not have faith in the American worker, I do. Given the chance, the American worker can build the finest products in the world. Though its not going to happen as long as the unions and companies fight each other and keep jacking the prices.

Now we are stuck with $8.4 trillion debt that we simply can not pay, our jobs went to China, Wall Street went nuts and the gov decided to spend us into oblivion. Inflation will not fix the problem neither will pumping in another $850 billion. So what is left, let it crash and pick up the pieces. The longer we let it continue the worse it will be.

Then bring the jobs back home and make something for a change instead of farming it out. You can't make money by shuffling paper back and forth waiting for money to fallout, there is no value in it. Build something and sell it, that is how to make money.

As Americans, then take your credit cards and cut them up and throw them in the trash. If you can't pay cash for it then don't buy it. It is that simple. If you need to get a lone then get only the amount that you can afford to pay back and no more. Stop feeding the system, it won't be easy and it requires sacrifice on your part but the rewards far out way the sacrifices made.

If you want America to be strong again, well you better start on the home front first. Stop looking to the gov or the POTUS to save you, they won't. Only you can make America strong again and you already know what you have to do.




posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 04:58 AM
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Very interesting discussion in here, and i love the way people have kept this thread constructive all the way, kudos to you all.

When that is said i need to say this: We are all aboard the same ship globally and we all have to take a shared responsebility in these harsh times. Unions are different around the globe, but here where i live in Denmark i would say being in a Union when the SHTF is a good thing, because the alternative is welfare, which is not high but it wont make you starve either, but on the other hand you are guaranteed 90% of what you made while working(which is around 35-45% brutto more than welfare) if you were in a Union.

As Leo Strauss wrote earlier on, the middle class should start acting like one, and we are still as always those who are highest participants in numbers.

I cannot remember who said the following statement, but i like it a lot.

The Roman Senator: We should let our worker carry a mark around the arm so we can see who we shall not walk amongst.

Another Roman Senator replies: No, then the people will know how many they are and how few we are.

Best regards.

Loke.



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 05:17 AM
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Bernanke is supposedly the "Almighty" on the Great Depression.

In fact, He has such insight, knowledge and genius,

He should single-handedly have seen, found the Financial WMD years ago, and taken pre-emptive steps, as Bush did in Iraq, to walk into Congress and state

"Mission Accomplished".

Just as Hitler and Bush 43 had done.

Unfortunately, I think the enjoyment of smirking at the hard questions and fancies the toying inner chuckles, whilst feining concern seriousness and intelectual chess play that gradually hypnotizes Congress into a lowe and lower represemtation.

Soon, they, (Congress), will all lie prostrated and give homage to the FED as loyally as I would've shown homage to what's under the blouse of the speaker of the house..if it had been about 25-30 years ago.

Both The FED's lmonitary supply and Nancy's breasts are very impressive.

Is it politically correct to use Breast and FED in the same sentence?

And today, The Congress in light of all this, for some warrantless reason, is propping up more than financial institutions,



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 06:19 AM
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Why do people still fail to see the big picture?

The great depression was created to exstablish the federal reserve and begin the process of removing the states from the gold standard.

Our problems are not Republican or Democrat. Behind the scenes its the same people always governing and they will soon usher in a NWO.

Why are they intenially causing another recession or even depression? Right now I'm not certain, but you can have no doubt that it has been planned decades in advance.


sty

posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


o oh - borrow from WHO? Who could possible have the money to run the US and UK governments for years, so we have to pay back? The GDP of China is too small to run US+UK , so where the money come from? Who gave that ammount of money to our governments? Then - if money represent the wealth produced by people, how could the borrower accumulate so much that could actually run the US+UK governments for years, pay our houses, cars , gadgets etc?
This is the little trick !


[edit on 26-1-2009 by sty]



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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I would rather negotiate with US unions than compete with 5 cent an hour workers in China! Why do ALL other industrialized nations have tariffs? Try to sell an American car in Korea and see how far you get! You guys are still worshiping at the idol of Reaganomics! If tariffs are so bad why do other countries still have them. Try to sell rice to Japan or China. It's a false argument. It is not No Trade vs Free Trade. It is Fair Trade and a level playing field.

Let's take wind turbines for instance. Americans could make the steel assemble the product ship and install the product along with creating a new energy grid. All homegrown all American jobs! What's wrong with that?
America is blessed with abundant natural resources, talented workers, innovation! When was the last time you bought an American television or computer? Our country could be one of the leaders of the "Green Revolution" but it sounds like you guys want to ship that overseas as well.


But some MBA will discover it is cheaper to have Indian laborers work for 5 cents an hour to manufacture the steel and the Chinese to assemble the electronics for 3 cents an hour. Then these same MBA's will come up with some way to borrow the money based on the energy rate payers in the US and the government will sell bonds to India and China!

It is about the destruction of the US middle class. There is no way the American worker can compete with those slave wages without tariffs!

They are disassembling entire factories and shipping them to China. How can you as an American support that???????



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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The Chinese save and we go into debt. That is why China owns about 1/3 of our total national debt and an increasing amount of our real estate. What will happen if China invades Taiwan, or provokes a conflict in which America is involved? We certainly couldn't borrow the money to fight them, our wars are fought with their money.

Personal fiscal responsibility is a good thing, but cutting back on the credit cards will not save us from the coming depression. Inflating the dollar, one of the recommended steps in the OP article, will help to pay off our national debt, but inflation combined with recession will raise interest rates (now at an all-time low) and give us stagflation, as we had in the 1970's.

Just to add my two cents to the labor union conversation: the average worker produces much more in profits than he or she costs in salary, some white collar workers excepted. The costs of union labor were not the cause of the automakers' near bankruptcy, but rather bad management decisions. It's true that if workers were paid 2 cents an hour profits would be maximized even further; most employers pay not what the job is actually worth but the smallest amount a worker will accept. If you make 10 cents an hour you can be sure that you're creating many dollars worth of profit.


[edit on 26-1-2009 by Sestias]


sty

posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


as I know, US own to China about 1 trillion out of 11 trillions. maybe my numbers are wrong, but if not wrong - then the question still remains : who created the rest of 10 trillions. Also , the domestic debt of US is told to be around 54 trillions , same question: who created all those trillions needed to be borrowed by the market? this is the big puzzle for me!



[edit on 27-1-2009 by sty]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by sty
 


I'm just venturing a guess, but I would expect the rest is owed to the IBS (International Bank of Settlements) through artifices like the UN, the WTO, the IMF, and perhaps the Central Bank Cartel itself (through the Fed).



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 11:23 PM
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The root problem is greed, and humans obsessive need to have everything that exists under the Sun.

If you want to fix the problem, stop the greed, one person at a time. Be content with what you have, learn to help others with your excess. Don't buy something you never earned. Pay everything in cash, never use credit, "Save" money, etc.

These are the lessons of the great depression. And history repeats itself. The over indulgence of the 1920's is now reflected in the baby boomers and the later generations. Are we going to "save" ourselves from the depression, nope. We are just going to spend ourselves too oblivion, much like the 1920's.




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