H.R.45

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

yeah I'm for real...

But in accordance with the SO's request recently, I suggest we leave ourselves out of it and stick to the discussion.


So people have a right to keep and bear arms. This right shall not be infringed.

Ok, well, I can go and buy an arm, and keep it, and in accordance with local laws, bear it.

Therefore my right has not been infringed. My right has only been infringed if I am not allowed to keep and bear an arm.

My right has NOT been infringed if I have to license that arm.

Websters definition of infringe is

to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

And as I mentioned, as long as I can still go buy, keep and bear that arm, my rights have not been violated.

Hunka, you are exactly what the federal government wants you to be. And I truely believe that when the day comes that they are trying to take our rights away, you will be honestly surprised.

reply to post by treemanx


I'm flattered that you would quote me in your signature please feel free to improve that quote by all means. I was just reading some Jefferson and this one popped in the list...

"Nothing... is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man." --Thomas Jefferson

I used "inalienable" at points when it would be better to say "UNALIENABLE" so by all means change that as Jefferson drew a distinction between the two and we are about "God Given Rights" vs. government supplied.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

It gets better, from H.R. 45

(2) QUALIFYING FIREARM- The term `qualifying firearm' has the meaning given the term in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (b) of this section.

And what does Section 921 say?

(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

18 USC 921

Yea...that would mean ALL guns...

If they can license a firearm, they can take it away.

That is all government is meant to do. License our freedom then revoke said license.

I don't know about the rest of you, but my freedom is not licensable and can not be revoked.

Just the fact that these loons in D.C. are TALKING about this sort of stuff should be enough to get even the most of resolute government lackeys to start questioning what their loving empire is up too...

reply to post by CaptInsanoX


There, someone who actually read the bill and realizes what Congress is attempting to do. We "elected" these lawyers, business people and land barons into office so that they can determine that our unalienable rights are now simply privileges that can be regulated, taxed, denied or suspended.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

Seems to me like we were born in the wrong generation Alpha, here is some more wise words from former President Ford:

Gerald Ford (14 July 1913 – 26 December 2006) , the 38th President of the United States:

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Presidential address to a joint session of Congress (12 August 1974)

I wish that people in office, and our own citizens, thought like Ford and Jefferson.

You all want to know what my stance is on gun control????????

In greek, it's MOLON LABE.

King Leonidas said this to the Persain Army at thier last stand. It means: "Come and Take Them!"

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum


Can you see now how a civil war will start in the U.S?

John Titor was who he said he was. If the shoe fits......
It's interesting how people will tear me to pieces for raving on about this guy, while on the other hand they will believe that aliens have underground bases in Colorado.
If someone from the future came back and warned me about coming events that now seem very plausible I would get over myself and start listening.

reply to post by treemanx

Well I like to think that my generation might be the one that demands a return to old school thinking but will need to shake the "tree of liberty" to clear out some of the dead fruit. One way or another everything is so up in the air now that it is unlikely that "nothing will happen!"


[edit on 26-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

You people need to stop looking at what the "Government" is doing. We live in a Republic...so live by it! Government does not have any kind of authority to tell you how to live your lives. They are just making up these "Alice-in wonderland-laws" to make you believe that they have power...and they really don't. Step outside of the "Matrix"...and only obey Gods laws.
There is a huge distinction between a "US-Citizen" and a "US-National". Did you know that you can apply for a US-Citizen Passport but you have to ask for a US-National Passport application to get a US-National Passport?

You see...they don't want you to know this...so let me make this even more clearer to you! AMERICAN CITIZENS DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO COURT!!! Only US-Citizens MUST go to court! Why do you think that your Name is always Capitalized on every Gov. ID they give you? Because you are a corporate entity in their eyes and not a living soul.
When I get a Traffic ticket...I don't run to an attorney or go to court...I just return the ticket to the District Attorney within 72 hours and notice on the ticket that "I REJECT THE OFFER TO CONTRACT". The DA will then try to call me at my house and then I tell him that I do not wish to contract...I say this over and over again until he hangs up...case closed. Same with Taxes...and I mean all taxes. I don't pay Property taxes...they gave up on me because they can't win! Do you have a "Contract" with your County that you "the living soul" have to pay Property taxes? No...you don't and whenever they send you a "Notice To Pay Property Taxes". Send them a letter back, that they have to send you a copy of the "Contract" and a statement "under the Penalties of Perjury" that you are obligated to pay property taxes. They won't do it!!! So if they won't respond to those simple demands, then you won't have to pay. That goes with every kind of tax.
Are you a business owner? Then why are you charging "Sales Tax" from your customers? Do you have a Contract with the State that says that you have to charge your customers Sales Tax? NO...you don't have a contract...so you don't have to charge any taxes to your customers.
Remember...it is we the people, not we the government!
Is your House/Land paid off? Do you own it outright? Then why don't you file a lien on it in your own name? Let's say you have a house that is worth $100,000...and you file a lien on it for $1-Million in your own name so that if you want to sell the property, then you would have to pay yourself the $1-Million first before you could sell it. So if any type of government wants’ to take your property away, then they would have to pay you $1-Million first....do you think that they will do that? I know they won't.
You must understand that in Reality (outside of the Matrix), there is no real Government because we the people are the Government! You just need to start becoming a responsible Human Being and stop letting some government take care of you! You have all been fooled...because all of you have been watching TV and jacking off every evening and not learning about your Rights as an American-Citizen. Let me make this very clear : IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR RIGHTS...THEN YOU DON'T DESERVE ANY!!!
Ever wondered why they say that you need a license to have a gun? You don't need a license to go to church...so how is the 1st Amendment different from the 2nd? In reality...it isn't and you don't need a license. So when they arrest you for whatever reason (Drugs, Traffic, running naked in the street ect...)...there are several easy ways not to contract (verbally) when you are presented in front of the judge ("How do you plead?" ...Your Honor, I plead the Blood of Jesus Christ"...you will be amazed to see what happens.It is up to you if you want to be taxed for breathing air one day...or you just simply reject their offer to contract.
You might want to Google this to learn more:
Rice McLeod
David-Sidney: Rideout
Robert:Menard
UCC1-207
HJR-192
sovereignty

The selection of guns at your local gunstore is hardly enough to stop the military grade weapons that will be aimed at us if martial law is forced upon us.

Why would the Government even waste time with the changing the laws if they just mean to exterminate us. What possibly could they have to fear from us. I mean sure we can put up a good fight but we are sure to be over run after they cut the water and power.

Well, seeing how many ludicrous Bill Proposals emanate from our Representatives, and witnessing how many of them thankfully fail, we can only hope that this proposal follows the latter process to a Precise T.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

yeah I'm for real...

But in accordance with the SO's request recently, I suggest we leave ourselves out of it and stick to the discussion.


So people have a right to keep and bear arms. This right shall not be infringed.

Ok, well, I can go and buy an arm, and keep it, and in accordance with local laws, bear it.

Therefore my right has not been infringed. My right has only been infringed if I am not allowed to keep and bear an arm.

My right has NOT been infringed if I have to license that arm.

Websters definition of infringe is

to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

And as I mentioned, as long as I can still go buy, keep and bear that arm, my rights have not been violated.

You are incorrect in one enormous and blatant aspect of such an argument. Licensure denotes an Act of Granting a Privilege, NOT Guaranteeing a Right. That is an irrevocable Violation of the United States Constitution.

reply to post by OS EXYCEUS


I dont know about you OS EXY, but cutting off my water and power wont phase me in the least. Luckily, I havent made myself so dependant on these things that my world would stop if I didnt have them.

And as far as the comment about what good our civilian guns could do against the advanced weapons they have, Ill tell you this. Youd be surprised at what a knowledgable gun owner can do with his hunting rifle.

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum


Alpha,
Ultimately it boils down to this for me. The right to keep and bare arms is great when we are talking about defending ourselves from our Government... but that's not who I'm concerned about.

I'm concerned about the unscrupulous man who has to feed his children.

I'm concerned about the gangs.

I'm concerned about my fellow man.

As I mentioned, It's great to have guns, but I believe in responsible ownership, even if that has to be enforced.

You may think that to be somehow ignorant, but it's exactly how this American Patriot feels and how I vote.


Now... your points make sense about the Constitution being the only license we need, as far as the gov is concerned.

But I like the gov... remember I'm a liberal. I don't want to have to be in an arms race with my neighbor.

I'm for anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, and also for reasonable Gun Control.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by OS EXYCEUS
The selection of guns at your local gunstore is hardly enough to stop the military grade weapons that will be aimed at us if martial law is forced upon us.

Why would the Government even waste time with the changing the laws if they just mean to exterminate us. What possibly could they have to fear from us. I mean sure we can put up a good fight but we are sure to be over run after they cut the water and power.

Our military is currently engaged in guarding oil wells, pipe lines, and oil tankers. Our government supports the Israeli attack on Gaza and has now attacked Pakistan several times. They don't want people to resort to crime but are unable to provide jobs. They want to control tax payers and gun owners but crime is on the rise. The government routinely violates the Bill of Rights and our new President insists that...

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

means...

CAN BE LIMITED BY SENSIBLE REASONABLE GUN LAWS



due to his vast experience, wisdom and years in "Constitutional" law! He twisted the point that these rights are UNALIENABLE as well so does Congress.

Does the government intend to have a mass cull here at home? Wow, I hope not but if it does a dumbed down disarmed population would have no way to resist anything foisted upon them!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...there are several easy ways not to contract (verbally) when you are presented in front of the judge ("How do you plead?" ...Your Honor, I plead the Blood of Jesus Christ"...you will be amazed to see what happens.

I bet they would think your crazy, it would be a kodak moment none the less, to capture the faces after hearing that plea.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

Alpha,
Ultimately it boils down to this for me. The right to keep and bare arms is great when we are talking about defending ourselves from our Government... but that's not who I'm concerned about.

I'm concerned about the unscrupulous man who has to feed his children.

I'm concerned about the gangs.

I'm concerned about my fellow man.

As I mentioned, It's great to have guns, but I believe in responsible ownership, even if that has to be enforced.

You may think that to be somehow ignorant, but it's exactly how this American Patriot feels and how I vote.


Now... your points make sense about the Constitution being the only license we need, as far as the gov is concerned.

But I like the gov... remember I'm a liberal. I don't want to have to be in an arms race with my neighbor.

I'm for anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, and also for reasonable Gun Control.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by HunkaHunka]

But what your not getting is that the unscrupulous man who has to feed his children; gangs; and fellow man, will kill with or without guns! It's not guns that need regulation! Guns are not killing people! People are, and always will be! Infringing your gun rights will not keep you safer from these people you fear! Learning how to protect yourself will keep you safe! Do not depend on the government for your protection, they wont be there until after you are robbed, or stabbed! Wake up, man!

reply to post by treemanx


I have to admit, you make a solid point.


But for someone like me who lives in the city, well... I think you see where I'm going with this.

And I know your point is probably that I should move to a more remote and thus safer area, and economy willing I more than likely will at least secure a place in a remote area.

However, at the time, living in the City, Gun Control Laws seem like a good idea.

As I mentioned though, you make a very solid and valid point.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

 

Alpha,
Ultimately it boils down to this for me. The right to keep and bare arms is great when we are talking about defending ourselves from our Government... but that's not who I'm concerned about.

I'm concerned about the unscrupulous man who has to feed his children.

I'm concerned about the gangs.

I'm concerned about my fellow man.

As I mentioned, It's great to have guns, but I believe in responsible ownership, even if that has to be enforced.

You may think that to be somehow ignorant, but it's exactly how this American Patriot feels and how I vote.


Now... your points make sense about the Constitution being the only license we need, as far as the gov is concerned.

But I like the gov... remember I'm a liberal. I don't want to have to be in an arms race with my neighbor.

I'm for anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, and also for reasonable Gun Control.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by HunkaHunka]

A fool and his money are soon parted HunkaHunka. I'm not going to waste my time as you have made up your mind and closed it to the reality that UNALIENABLE RIGHTS are at stake here. You don't have to justify how low you're willing to sink down to me. Several other posters attempted to bring you back into the fold but you depend on the government. Adages like, "If you give an inch they take a mile" mean nothing to you. My state just banned all .50 cal weapons stating that these are for military use only. BANNED THEM OUTRIGHT... since you can't hunt with them.

Here the government is now setting more conditions on the citizen and thusly adding more infringement. Infringement = Regulation but believe what you like since you already decided who you serve.

Here's my thought;

There are stats for things like "how many doubles a Pro baseball player hits off of a left handed knuckle ball pitcher in the month of September, where the temperature is above 70 degrees on the playing field",

There are,
(I read a link earlier, but for this purpose, I'm not looking for it),
between 1 and 2 million attempted crimes failed because a potential victim brandished a gun in defense. Where's the political demographics on these types of thwarted crime attempts? I guess it doesn't serve the agenda of certain Senators and their pack of daisy sniffing fanatical gun-banners.

What does fit their agenda is to demonize our real only equalizer when defending ourselves, family, friends and property from those intent on criminal behavior. This includes their ongoing illegal use of the weapons that they wish to ban.

Without trying to be repetitious, I must reitterate the one true fact that can not be denied regarding this issue.

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".

Now, having some pompus gun ban activist trying to shove their head up my, and all US Citizens who defend the 2nd ammendment, ass(es), It gets more uncomfortable every year, and I for one do not enjoy figiting in my seat with my butt cheeks squeezed together to keep them out of my business.

Moreover, I do not take the gun safety issue lightly, and believe in training and knowledge when handling a weapon that, with the squeeze of the trigger can devistate many maqny lives.

However, gun safety is a good thing. Gun banning is as criminal as walking into my "castle" and stealing, or burglaring, etc...

Anyone with moral standards and honest values should be well aware of the consequences of even brandishing a weapon, let alone using one.

Once that split second decision is made.....
You better be God Damn SURE of what you are doing, for, of your decision is wrong, beit stupidity or carelessness, things will manifest around you to the point where, as in Revelations, you may seek death but not find it.

Once upon a time, long ago, I rolled into my driveway, around 10:30PM, well after dark, and I was surprised to see the entire house dark, and the front door wide open.

This was more than unusual sinse there were ALWAYS at least 3 or more family and usually a friend or three.

Puzzled, I revved my engine a few times and cranked my loud stereo up to well over 135 decibals, and with my lights still illuminating, just sat and watched for another minute.

I saw no shadow, no movement or change in lighting whatsoever, and turning off the engine, stereo and lights, got out listening for any sound. I heard none.

At this point, I'm thinking that if anyone was home, they surely would have heard or saw me out there, so my thoughts whirled and I had become extremely worried and with concern came sweaty palms, and in those sweaty palms, I had drawn my .45 (German made).

A quick glance to verify I had the extended 11 round clip in, I approached the poarch, stopped; listened, and stepped through the threshold. The house was split level. I paused again prior to the stairs, listened....
Not a sound, voice, noise of any kind.

With my weapon ready, I began the 8 steps upward.

on my second step,

as if in stealth mode, around the hall corner and to the upper landing came two figures moving swiftly while whispering.

They were on the second rung downward, before they saw me.

Four steps seperated them and myself, and as I gripped the trigger more snuggly with my finger, and in the darkness there on the stairs, I broke my stance, tucking my elbows to disengage.

Though startled from the two's hurried stealth walk, I was looking for the eyes, thank God. When the pair realized they had turned the corner to face the fat barrell of a .45 point blank, they scurried to the dining room, back-pedalling all the way.

It was a step-daughter behind her black friend, (now white), that turned the hall corner for the stairs.

I could have just as easily double tapped.

As I holstered my weapon and asked the right questions, I told them that in the future, leave the front door shut, and a light on would help as well.

Needless to say, the front door was never left open again.

They thanked me for my restraint, and to this day, I joke with the kid..(he went to college on a football scholarship, (thanks to my womans intervention when his path was leading to destruction),

When I see him, I always ask now, "Have you ever seen a black man turn white?".

I honestly can say I have.

But the point is, had I fired, I believe I would have either been released after statement, or aquited should some pompus DA try me.

Emotionally, I would have been in a worse than prison state, had I dispatched my womans daughter.

So, I say, get off the H.R. 45 and leave us with our .45's, but be damn sure that when you touch that weapon, you realize that you are going to use it, or that anyone would take that position if witnessed.

P.S., I like hammer safety only. No discharge when dropped, but no exuses either. you squeeze the trigger, the weapon fires, period.
To me, that is the safest configuration for semi-auto sidearm.

Safely, training, and protection. There is a pure form of gun rights.