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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
look the only reason I reported your post was because you called me a liar, I might be an idiot, but I am not a liar.
Anywho, if you just take the time to read the existing law, your gonna find plenty to be pissed about and for good reason.
This bill does nothing and I mean absolutely nothing to infringe on your right to keep and bear arms. A licence is not infringement. They don't specify who is able to obtain a licence, (That's because it's already in the existing law who can and cannot have a gun.) If you bother to calm down a little and actually read the existing law in place already you will see who can and cannot legally own a firearm in this country.
I haven't fabricated anything in any response in this thread. Not one thing. I am just pointing out the obvious.
This AMENDMENT simply changes a few words, this does NOTHING to take anyone's gun away from them.
Infringement
In*fringe"ment\, n. 1. The act of infringing; breach; violation; nonfulfillment; as, the infringement of a treaty, compact, law, or constitution.
The punishing of this infringement is proper to that jurisdiction against which the contempt is. --Clarendon.
2. An encroachment on a patent, copyright, or other special privilege; a trespass.
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
The 2nd Amendment explicitly states that the Government may not infringe on the 2nd Amendment.
This is a Preexisting Right of the People
We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: the soap box, the
ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box
Originally posted by mattifikation
I really don't think the opposing viewpoint is here solely as some kind of disinformation group, or anything like that. I think we do ATS a grave disservice when we accuse those who don't agree with us of having some alternative agenda.
There really is a large percentage of the population that thinks the country is better off without guns. There are many people who fall, every time, for the frog-in-the-pot scheme, and the vast majority of people who argue in favor of these silly gun control laws are those people.
I'd say most of these people have bad information, not bad intent.
Originally posted by PrepareForTheWorst
Last time I checked, automobiles aren't a protected right under the constitution, not that I agree with having to register them.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
So what if you have to buy a license? Big deal I gotta buy one to drive my car.
Originally posted by THELONIO
hi all, just a small question, i am neither for or against as i am english, do you think that when the constitution was written, regarding rights to bear arms, that they intended people to be running around with the sort of weaponry that is available today?, machine guns?, a lot of what is available today is vastly different to when the constitution was written, possibly out of there comprehension. twas just a thought.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I guess I am dumb then, I did not realize that owning a gun was a constitutionally protected right. If that is true then there would not be a need for gun laws would there? I mean I have the right to free speech with no limits, correct? So you are saying that's just like the right to own a gun, the same thing, or maybe I still dont understand.
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
Oh, you didn't read about it in our ‘free’ press? That's cause it never appeared.
Today I want to talk to you about guns: Why we have them, why the Bill of Rights guarantees that we can have them, and why my right to have a gun is more important than your right to rail against it in the press.
I believe every good journalist needs to know why the Second Amendment must be considered more essential than the First Amendment. This may be a bitter pill to swallow, but the right to keep and bear arms is not archaic. It's not an outdated, dusty idea some old dead white guys dreamed up in fear of the Redcoats. No, it is just as essential to liberty today as it was in 1776.
---------------------------------
I agree wholeheartedly ... a free press is vital to a free society. But I wonder: How many of you will agree with me that the right to keep and bear arms is not just equally vital, but the most vital to protect all the other rights we enjoy?
I say that the Second Amendment is, in order of importance, the first amendment. It is America's First Freedom, the one right that protects all the others. Among freedom of speech, of the press, of religion, of assembly, of redress of grievances, it is the first among equals. It alone offers the absolute capacity to live without fear. The right to keep and bear arms is the one right that allows "rights" to exist at all.
Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by imd12c4funn
Only problem is that this bill doesn't attempt to outlaw guns.
Only control them.
Now some people believe it's important for them to be able to personally own a .50 caliber machine gun.
I don't.
However I don't have any problems with handguns or or rifles.
I don't however want my neighbor stockpiling hand grenades.
No one here is talking about outlawing guns.
US Constitution: Article IV, Section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
republic n 1 : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and is usually a president; also : a nation or other political unit having such a government 2 : a government in which supreme power is held by the citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives governing according to law; also : a nation or other political unit having such a form of government.
Originally posted by WSPfan
Funny how all of you right-wing gun nuts overlook the WELL REGULATED portion of the amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Originally posted by ZindoDoone
He may have citizenship, (he does, I was wrong) but he ain't working to better the country thats for sure!!!LOL
Originally posted by Beaux
Abolitionists fear the weapon, have seen the havoc created by just one armed person, and recognize that many criminals simply steal the weapons from other citizens to use against them. They want more regulation and trust the Law to protect them (cops and the legal system).
Crime is not only a complete disavowal of the social contract, but also a commandeering of the victim's person and liberty. If the individual's dignity lies in the fact that he is a moral agent engaging in actions of his own will, in free exchange with others, then crime always violates the victim's dignity. It is, in fact, an act of enslavement. Your wallet, your purse, or your car may not be worth your life, but your dignity is; and if it is not worth fighting for, it can hardly be said to exist.
----------------------------------------------
It is impossible to address the problem of rampant crime without talking about the moral responsibility of the intended victim. Crime is rampant because the law-abiding, each of us, condone it, excuse it, permit it, submit to it. We permit and encourage it because we do not fight back, immediately, then and there, where it happens. Crime is not rampant because we do not have enough prisons, because judges and prosecutors are too soft, because the police are hamstrung with absurd technicalities. The defect is there, in our character. We are a nation of cowards and shirkers.
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In 1991, when then-Attorney General Richard Thornburgh released the FBI's annual crime statistics, he noted that it is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves. The police, however, are not personal bodyguards. Rather, they act as a general deterrent to crime, both by their presence and by apprehending criminals after the fact. As numerous courts have held, they have no legal obligation to protect anyone in particular. You cannot sue them for failing to prevent you from being the victim of a crime.
Insofar as the police deter by their presence, they are very, very good. Criminals take great pains not to commit a crime in front of them. Unfortunately, the corollary is that you can pretty much bet your life (and you are) that they won't be there at the moment you actually need them.
Should you ever be the victim of an assault, a robbery, or a rape, you will find it very difficult to call the police while the act is in progress, even if you are carrying a portable cellular phone. Nevertheless, you might be interested to know how long it takes them to show up. Department of Justice statistics for 1991 show that, for all crimes of violence, only 28 percent of calls are responded to within five minutes. The idea that protection is a service people can call to have delivered and expect to receive in a timely fashion is often mocked by gun owners, who love to recite the challenge, "Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first."
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
The original idea is that everyone would be armed and there is no better deterrent to crime.
Originally posted by HunkaHunka
They are simply saying that given the numbers in which we live today, the only way to enable the populace to keep and bear arms while at the same time not requiring it of others is to make people responsible for the use of those arms, through licensing.
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
You must understand that in Reality (outside of the Matrix), there is no real Government because we the people are the Government! You just need to start becoming a responsible Human Being and stop letting some government take care of you!
Originally posted by OS EXYCEUS
The selection of guns at your local gunstore is hardly enough to stop the military grade weapons that will be aimed at us if martial law is forced upon us.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Anyway, I intend on moseying up to the flea market over in Bullitt co and pick me up a nice gun. Of course, I am going to bring a couple of guys with me who know their guns, since I dont.
Originally posted by Michaeljp86
The reason the US was never invaded is because every american would plug every nazi, russian, jap, whoever was invading. Citizens owning guns has nothing to do with people wanting to shoot each other, its the best military in the world, pretty much a unstopable one.
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
Here I can add the numerous George Washington GUN quotes but google them yourself and read.
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
Thanks for building hope by providing quotes by Thomas Jefferson. He and others like George Washington had wisdom beyond their years coupled to selfless courage that we can only hope to ever come again.
Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
Well a bill needs to go through the House (this one started there) then the Senate and then the President and then it is a Law.