Vatican attacks US abortion move

reply to post by Jim Scott


No infact my private healthcare paid for it, and kill it first? of course coz your ended something that hasn't even started yet, wait till he's 21 and kill him? jeez thats prob one of the worst analogies i've ever heard. But maybe your right after she has the child it should get sent to you, and you have to look after it by law, how would you feel about that?

I think the whole abortion idea in itself is escalated to far considering U.S presidency.

What the main problem is those who want to enforce THEIR beliefs on others and people who want to allow each side to do as they choose.

Biased? Sure is. Very true? Sure is.

I am against people going around having sex and spurting out babies. I think that is VERY immature and such people to need take responsibility over their life's and possible life's. Even then though, who am I to judge that this baby could ruin their life? It is their choice.

Are you Christian? I don't care. Are you Pro-Life? I don't care. You expect me to follow your beliefs? HA.

First of all the Vatican needs to get their own house in order before they start making demands to other people.

Gay guy reminds pope that this verse applies:
Matt 7:5
Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

I'm not sure about other areas but, in this one the churches stand against birth control, contraceptives, and sex education. A certain amount of teens will have sex. They even did this from within a Christian School.

Usually it is the sexually ignorant Christian girls that get pregnant here in their teens. The girl gets slapped with no abortion that is murder sermon and is forever labeled a whore. If she keeps the baby the church certainly won't do much to make sure it is taken care of. If she doesn't have the baby she will be labeled forever a baby killer.

That way she will always have a Pharisee superior church pointing out a mistake she made forever.


It is preventable in the first place.

did you numb skulls read it...how is it not forcing abortions on people that don't believe in them...who do you think going to have to pay them? tax payers....so lets force abortion on us non believers but..noooooooo i don't want your belif of pro life forced on me....get a clue.

I've read the Pro-life and Pro-abortion content in this thread.

Here is the irony.... in America abortion is not murder, but if someone else terminates a woman's pregnancy, via assault or accidental trauma, the offender can be charged with murder or manslaughter.

So the law indicates abortion of a fetus is not murder, but if the same fetus is otherwise terminated, this is potentially murder / manslaughter.

Under these circumstances only the mother can determine if the fetus is alive or not, or if the fetus has value or not, and the law will presumably back her decision.

As a committed libertarian I don't feel this issue should be regulated in any way and that someone else's opinion should remain just that, an opinion.

The problem arises when I expect the same consideration from those debating abortion to adopt a reasonable position concerning my right to own a firearm, my right to free speech etc.

Example: The law protects a woman who has an abortion and allows her to terminate a viable life, while in many states I cannot use a firearm in my own home to protect myself or my children.

Factor in H.R.45 and some of you will see where I am going with this.

Passion and politics rule the day, not individual sovereignty and responsibility.

Reasonable responses will be entertained.



[edit on 2009/26/1 by Marmota monax]

Originally posted by Mdv2
Perhaps the Vatican and these Christian morons who are openly opposing abortion should allow other people to make decisions for themselves.

I am Christian yet progressive and in fact I haven't met any Atheist who openly criticized me for believing in God, so perhaps people who feel a need to criticize others who are pro-abortion, should mind their own business.

I might clarify the following to avoid a debate a freedom of speech.

Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, however, I think it goes too far when people try to force others to share their opinion through legislation. Especially when there is such a big pro and contra group, nor does it affect those who are against it.


news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Mdv2]

If u believe in God, then that means life and death is up to God. Not up to u or any other women/man that wants abortion. If they didnt want a baby, they shouldnt have had sex, or they should have used a condom. But dont kill an innocent baby because of that persons mistake.


O ant dont forget the constitution, remember our unalienable right?

"LIFE, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness."

[edit on 1/26/2009 by ShakeNBake]

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


Maybe the mother should have exercised her right of choice before she decided to be a slut, and be left with immoral choice of whether or not, to terminate an unborn child.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Vatican attacks US abortion move

news.bbc.co.uk

The Vatican has condemned President Obama's move to restore US funding for family planning clinics abroad that give advice on or carry out abortions.

One Vatican official warned against the "arrogance" of those in power who think they can decide between life and death.

(visit the link for the full news article)

And now for the Irony.
By saying this, the vatican is saying they can decide between life and death. Sounds like a bunch of arrogant hypocrites to me. Go figure.

Originally posted by cropmuncher
I think the whole vatican against abortion thing is rich considering the amount of child molesters within the catholic church!

You're not seeing the big picture.

If less fetus' are aborted, that means they can molest more in the future

[edit on 26-1-2009 by jfj123]

Hahahaha, the Vatican called someone arrogant.

One of the few policies that Obama will be able to implement that will actually increase civil liberty and freedom is being attacked by the church. Good God, what a global fiasco we live in.

Once again we have people, usually men, making laws and decisions that effect women.

Abortion is a personal and private choice. Often it can be a heartbreaking decision made under duress.

It really is nobody else's business.


res

If u believe in God, then that means life and death is up to God. Not up to u or any other women/man that wants abortion. If they didnt want a baby, they shouldnt have had sex, or they should have used a condom. But dont kill an innocent baby because of that persons mistake.

[edit on 1/26/2009 by ShakeNBake]

Should not have sex? Well I can tell you that if I was raped and ended up pregnant, I would not hesitate to have an abortion. Now tell me that this is "God's will"

Not all sex is consensual.


res

The hierarchy of the Catholic Church doesn’t have a right to judge anyone. Maybe when they stop protecting pedophile priest then they can talk.

The baby doesn't have a choice. Before it is born it is not it's own sentient being, it is a part of the mother's body and she has the right to decide to do hatever she wants with it.

Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive subjectively under your definition infants small childern and mentally handicapped are fair game. There are differnt definitions for the word I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. My thoughts are this no one knows for sure when or if we are endowed with a soul so maybe your killing your child or maybe just or small growth. Two the whole pro choice thing is wrong in most circumstances not counting rape ect. You do have a choice use protection be responsible ect. rape victims is where it gets much more complicated so i won't talk about that. Lastly a little rant irresponsible Men don't have freedom of choice they mess up and they are a Dad. Just my thoughts on the topic feel free to tell me if I'm wrong

Been reading through this post more and I’m hoping all these anti-abortion people are willing to pay for a women’s hospital bills as she carries an unwanted child to term. I’m hoping they’re willing to pay welfare for her when she decides to keep the child. I’m hoping some of them are willing to adopt the outrageous amount of kids who will end up in foster care or at least shell out more money for the system to care for them and to pay for foster parents to feed and clothes them. You want to ban abortion? You’ll be spending a lot more money on funding the lives of these unwanted babies than you’ll spend on abortions.

Also I don’t get the churches silly commercials. Yeah sure an unwanted baby could be the next “Obama” or they could be the next “Hitler”, so spare me.


[edit on 26-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Been reading through this post more and I’m hoping all these anti-abortion people are willing to pay for a women’s hospital bills as she carries an unwanted child to term. I’m hoping they’re willing to pay welfare for her when she decides to keep the child. I’m hoping some of them are willing to adopt the outrageous amount of kids who will end up in foster care or at least shell out more money for the system to care for them and to pay for foster parents to feed and clothes them. You want to ban abortion? You’ll be spending a lot more money on funding the lives of these unwanted babies than you’ll spend on abortions.

Also I don’t get the churches silly commercials. Yeah sure and unwanted baby could be the next “Obama” or they could be the next “Hitler”, so spare me.

Good pionts all are valid but we could also lower are spending by exterminating handicapped mentally and physically as most are on government assistance we should go ahead and take of elderly to or at least the ones recieving government assistance.

Originally posted by resistancia

If u believe in God, then that means life and death is up to God. Not up to u or any other women/man that wants abortion. If they didnt want a baby, they shouldnt have had sex, or they should have used a condom. But dont kill an innocent baby because of that persons mistake.

[edit on 1/26/2009 by ShakeNBake]

Should not have sex?

Well I can tell you that if I was raped and ended up pregnant, I would not hesitate to have an abortion. Now tell me that this is "God's will"

Not all sex is consensual.


res

Well if u got raped maybe God wanted u to open ur eyes to him, and live for him, not for the world. And most likley a true Christian (not paganized like many are) wouldn't be in that type of situation or live in that kind of circumstance. But even if some one were raped, they shouldnt have an abortion.

reply to post by frankdatank

exterminating handicapped mentally and physically as most are on government assistance we should go ahead and take of elderly to or at least the ones recieving government assistance.

Woah, apples and oranges. This is another discussion for another thread. There's a huge difference between a fetus being aborted before it evolves past twelve weeks and those who are birthed, and those who are elderly.

Originally posted by ShakeNBake

Well if u got raped maybe God wanted u to open ur eyes to him, and live for him, not for the world. And most likley a true Christian (not paganized like many are) wouldn't be in that type of situation or live in that kind of circumstance. But even if some one were raped, they shouldnt have an abortion.

Ok...so any girls that are raped are not "true Christians" because they put themselves in a situation to be a victim of sexual assault?

Live in what type of circumstance?


What the: Are you for real

Man you really are high on Christianity aren't you?

res


[edit on 26-1-2009 by resistancia]

reply to post by ShakeNBake

Well if u got raped maybe God wanted u to open ur eyes to him, and live for him, not for the world. And most likley a true Christian (not paganized like many are) wouldn't be in that type of situation or live in that kind of circumstance. But even if some one were raped, they shouldnt have an abortion.

If that's the God you whorship then I'm very glad I don't do the same. This has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. You seem to think rape can bring people closer to God or punish them, when rape is no ones fault and to assume it would connect anyone to God is a random, useless assumption. Also you seem to think Christians aren't raped or don't experience such heartache (because of their beliefs), where do you get that from? Also I'm assuming you're a man, while you could understand the heartache of rape you'll never understand a circumstance where you'd be forced to carry your rapist baby. And guess what, a lot of women who judge those who are raped as well will never know that circumstance, to assume you are qualified to make such a decision legally for a person is extremely over indulging your ability to know what is right and wrong, what is holy and what is not.



[edit on 27-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]