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Vatican attacks US abortion move

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posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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By the way - let's get clarity. Because someone seems to want to slam me to the carpet.

I was raised in Metaphysics/Positive Thought in the 50's before it was popular or even well known. I did not just adopt it as my current belief system. I was also raised in Christianity - - because in the belief I was raised in - you travel many paths to find the one that is true for you. My mother was friends with Gina Cerminara.

Men: married 14 years to high school sweetheart. Married 18 years to current husband.

My first pregnancy was a 4 month miscarriage - had 2 children following that - 4th pregnancy I chose abortion. I am now a grandmother.

I am 62+ years old - - and know what it was like before women had Right of Choice.

I figure all that history gives me a Full Rounded PERSONAL understanding on this subject.

The belief I was raised in is as valid to me as anyone else's is to them.

If you are Catholic and want to listen to the Vatican - - that's your choice.

I have My Choices.





[edit on 19-2-2009 by Annee]




posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I'm not picking some "magical point" at which a fetus becomes a person. I'm saying that until the fetus is it's own separate entity, (this means that it's already living outside of it's mother regardless of its ability), it is just another part of the mother and she is free to do with it as she pleases.

I understand that this is my opinion and I understand that you have yours. I respect that you have your own opinion and I'm not here to make you agree with me. All I'm saying is that, despite our differing views, you shouldn't concern yourself with mine.

We are free to believe whatever we want. Legislating one groups beliefs takes away the freedom of everyone else who has a differing belief.

It's a choice.

If you don't like abortion, don't get one.

That simple.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick

All I'm saying is that, despite our differing views, you shouldn't concern yourself with mine.


Should on somebody else homicide, you just said what he shouldn't do, yet you don't like it when anyone tells you what YOU shouldn't do.

The big difference is, people like you, are so far removed from the full understanding of what you are REALLY about, that it displays a sociopathic indifference for human life in general. Their is a direct connection to people who have grown up being cruel to animals, manifesting the kind of cold hearted attitude for human life you have in your posts.

For Example:




We are free to believe whatever we want. Legislating one groups beliefs takes away the freedom of everyone else who has a differing belief.


We are free to believe whatever we want. Legislating one groups beliefs when those belief's take away the freedom of those whose hopes and dreams for the same opportunity to live long enough to enjoy the love, people like you would deny them.

and for what?

So you can establish your "in-dee-pen-dence"!




It's a choice.


Yes it is, and it is one an innocent child's life depends on you making the right one. If you had an ounce of compassion but going by the next statement you make, well,, I guess you would be oblivious to how it looks when you say:



If you don't like abortion, don't get one.


My God woman, listen to yourself, you sound as if you are saying

"Don't knock it till you've tried it"

You sound like you want to get pregnant just so you can GET an abortion.

No one should "LIKE" abortion

No, not one.




[edit on 20-2-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I'm not picking some "magical point" at which a fetus becomes a person. I'm saying that until the fetus is it's own separate entity, (this means that it's already living outside of it's mother regardless of its ability), it is just another part of the mother and she is free to do with it as she pleases.

I understand that this is my opinion and I understand that you have yours. I respect that you have your own opinion and I'm not here to make you agree with me. All I'm saying is that, despite our differing views, you shouldn't concern yourself with mine.

We are free to believe whatever we want. Legislating one groups beliefs takes away the freedom of everyone else who has a differing belief.

It's a choice.

If you don't like abortion, don't get one.

That simple.


Well yes it is a choice, but it is a choice of a Sociopath...

Choice for Sociopaths means the "I" always come first and is fully justified no matter what the consequences are in that choice to others. You have totally justified your choice...good on ya..

Below is a short list of Sociopathic behavior, and if the shoe fits...





Glibness and Superficial Charm


Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.


Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.


Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


Incapacity for Love


Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.


Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.


Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.


Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.


Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.


[edit on 20-2-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by donwhite

If we had it to do over, Roe v. Wade, 1973, we’d make it a CRIMINAL VIOLATION of the law for any MALE person to utter, speak or write anything about ABORTIONS or pregnant women.


Gee Don,, it isn't like there is all that much difference to the way it is now
Other than the fact I get to have my son or daughter murdered by the state and some sociopathic bimbo without an excuse,, you're saying we shouldn't even be able to get upset about it.

Good thing YOU know your place in the home






there is nothing any MAN can contribute that is useful to the subject.


That doesn't stop you from your blathering, why then should it stop me?

I would feel sorry for you then Don, if you were the Doctor at a planned parenthood who talked the mother of my son or daughter into killing them.

I wouldn't care what YOU, the vatican or the law say's, I know the difference between right and wrong. Not everything that is allowed is right and not every thing that is done wrong is done for wrong reasons.




Ref. this thread. Only pompous repetitious ranting


Yeah but you know what? It don't bother me.



Uh, Mr A, if you talk with Herr P/E, ask him if he knows what hunky job His Eminence Bernard Cardinal Law was awarded by Pope John Paul 2 when he fled the US to Italy.


Not interested in past atrocities Don, only the ones caused by people today right now and supported by People,,

like you





[edit on 21-2-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
Rationalizing & Denying over population


There are no words.



Your response, in essence, is not a response. "There are no words" is not an adequate response.

I have presented this information (seen on the previous page) because to me it seems as if people take overpopulation as fact in our world. They believe that it exists, period. Yet they never look at any of the facts or statistics readily available.

If you will not look at facts perhaps you will look at more story type format articles. I am using the these in case you are a reading learner

From Geocities.....
Written Article

If you are more of a visual learner perhaps this will help.
www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">World Map

An area the size of Iceland would give each of the 6 billion humans 185 square feet to themselves. Other statistics I have found suggest that all humans could all fit on the Caribbean island of Jamaica.

(Iceland is the nation in between Britain and Greenland and is in the North Atlantic. For all those who may not know.)

If you are a auditory learner I apologize I cannot help you Youtube videos and other sources that provide audio responses are terribly inaccurate or even flat out wrong. I attribute this mainly to the fact that Youtube videos are produced by average people who have also bought into the overpopulation myth.

If you are a kinetic learner please write "Overpopulation is a myth" 100 times. (This is not meant as offensive it is actually a way in which people can learn correct information if they originally learned information incorrectly.)

(Note: Yes I know that people learn not only with one of these types of learning and that nearly everyone learns by a mixture of these different types. That is why I presented more than one.)

Please keep an open mind about overpopulation. When I was very, very young I was also led to believe the world was overpopulated as well. However, when I looked into the facts I found that nothing supported that idea and every statistic I found pointed to the fact that the world is actually going through a depopulation crisis and not a overpopulation crisis.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by Studious]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
I'm not picking some "magical point" at which a fetus becomes a person. I'm saying that until the fetus is it's own separate entity, (this means that it's already living outside of it's mother regardless of its ability), it is just another part of the mother and she is free to do with it as she pleases.


What about Thoraco-omphalopagus conjoined twins? That share the same heart and other vital organs? (Note these are the most common form of conjoined twins.)

They would be similar to to children in the womb because they are not a "separate entity."

Can one twin therefore declare the other a piece of non-living flesh?

Can one twin have the other killed because they do not wish to be burdened by "it?"



Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
We are free to believe whatever we want. Legislating one groups beliefs takes away the freedom of everyone else who has a differing belief.


Then I suppose we cannot legislate ANY groups beliefs, because that would eliminate the freedom of those with a differing belief.

Listen to yourself, Legislation is by definition legislating one idea over another. Therefore it is legislating one groups beliefs over another's.




When evil is committed in the world we have a duty to stop it. I refuse to be indifferent to evil. Eli Wiesel's words clearly capture this feeling.

Excerpts from Eli Wiesel's "The Perils of Indifference" speech:

"Of course, indifference can be tempting -- more than that, seductive. It is so much easier to look away from victims. It is so much easier to avoid such rude interruptions to our work, our dreams, our hopes. It is, after all, awkward, troublesome, to be involved in another person's pain and despair. Yet, for the person who is indifferent, his or her neighbor are of no consequence. And, therefore, their lives are meaningless. Their hidden or even visible anguish is of no interest. Indifference reduces the Other to an abstraction...

...In a way, to be indifferent to that suffering is what makes the human being inhuman. Indifference, after all, is more dangerous than anger and hatred. Anger can at times be creative. One writes a great poem, a great symphony. One does something special for the sake of humanity because one is angry at the injustice that one witnesses. But indifference is never creative. Even hatred at times may elicit a response. You fight it. You denounce it. You disarm it.

Indifference elicits no response. Indifference is not a response. Indifference is not a beginning; it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity, we betray our own."

NEVER be indifferent to suffering.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Studious]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Studious]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Studious
NEVER be indifferent to suffering.


Your support of this statement and this statement itself was very inspiring. Oft we're told, "it's none of your business, butt out!" and for the most part I smile, bow and walk away. The exception is when there is a blatant violation of human rights whereas I have the inclination and ability to say something about it. In a lone prison cell across the world that no one knows about, the person contained there can cry out to their captor before the beating or execution, "please stop". They have a voice though it is often dismissed. When speaking of unborn children however, they have no voice, no choice, and no chance at experiencing anything good that life may offer to them. Because they are denied this experience, because of the pain they must endure, because they have no voice, someone needs to speak for them.



Bless the beasts and the children
For in this world they have no voice
They have no choice

For the world can never be
The world they see

Light their way
When the darkness surrounds them
Give them love
Let it shine all around them

Give them shelter from a storm
Keep them safe
Keep them warm
- www.whizzo.ca...

[edit on 23-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 





They have a voice though it is often dismissed. When speaking of unborn children however, they have no voice, no choice, and no chance at experiencing anything good that life may offer to them. Because they are denied this experience, because of the pain they must endure, because they have no voice, someone needs to speak for them.

Amen.
Our government, and the action that Obama took to financially SUPPORT the murder of innocent victims, tells me that our government leaders have lost their way completely.
Anyone who says we are better than the Nazis in the 1930's and 1940's, just refuses to face the facts. Our government now SANCTIONS MURDER of innocent children.
I wish that there was a lawyer that would have the courage to CHARGE these people with the crime of MURDER in the first degree, because abortions are planned, and executed with full knowledge of what they are doing.
In addition, those organizations that support abortion should be charged under the RICO act for conspiracy to commit murder.
However, given the CORRUPT nature of our government, I know that will never happen, until those who believe in justice and compassion are able to retake our government from these murderers.






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