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Vatican attacks US abortion move

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 



If You Pray YES and GOD Says NO, Is IT Over?


Perhaps the question is too complex for you? Be not ashamed for I have noted none of the other ANTI Choice proponents have deigned to reply either.

Maybe you all have a GROUP think problem? Or a BLIND spot? Hmm?



If You Pray YES and GOD Says NO, Is IT Over?




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


Is what 'over'?
Are you asking about free-will?
There are about a dozen threads on that.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 



Is what 'over'?
Are you asking about free-will?
There are about a dozen threads on that.


Now you're being cute, C/K. It is unbecoming of you.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by kerrichin
i do belive though that the woman should not be the one who should always take the blame for mistakes and having the contraception.
the fact is a man can easily walk away a woman can not.
men should take more responsibiltiy when planting their seeds.


We agree here and would gladly stand with you to get whatever law enforced necessarily to create legal responsibility for a father. We have the technology of DNA testing so false accusations aren't a problem.


Originally posted by kerrichin
you never hear of a man being carted off because he got a girl pregnant or a boy being scorned by the community like girls are when the get pregnant while at school they go on with there normal lives while the girl is heckled and ousted from her community.


Yes, there's a social double-standard here that needs to be fixed.


Originally posted by kerrichin
also another thought is illegal abortion if it became illegal to have an abortion women and girls who were desperate would go fine an illegal and back alley abortionist.


Fact is when something is illegal, a lot less people will do it. We can point to just about any law and see this to be the case. If laws didn't work, we wouldn't have them.


Originally posted by kerrichin
if the child is kept by the parent that does not want the child will be abused physically and mentally.


This is an assumption. Pregnancy often changes a woman's heart during gestation.


Originally posted by kerrichin
and also the world is over populated as it is.


Extermination is not the answer. No war...er..genocide...er...infanticide I mean.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


No, I'm not being 'cute'.
I really don't understand the question.

Is what over?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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not all women change their mind.
even if they do they are still in thesame situation finanually and mentally.
post natal depression can become a problem, women are just expected to know what to do.

geneside is laughable, they are cells abortion is only legal uop to a certain stage in the pregnancy.
i still stand by the fact that if abortion is made illegal then the back alley abortionists will increase in business.
and then the fetus will be destoyed in a more violent and discusting way, and be more of a risk to the woman.

i read somewhereof a girl of 11 who was raped and got pregnant her family made her keep the child, to me she should of had an abortion surely her body could not cope with the extreme pressure of pregnancy and later birth.

ill try and find a link



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by kerrichin
post natal depression can become a problem,


Any depression can be a problem whether that's due to finances, hyperthyroidism (www.medterms.com...), divorce, unemployment, welfare, alcoholism, medication, chemotherapy, etc... Finally, unlike many of these scenarios, post-natal depression isn't assured.


Originally posted by kerrichin
geneside is laughable,


I'm not laughing. It's sad to hear you are. No longer going to try meaningful conversation from this point.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 



I really don't understand the question.

Is what over?



I think this thread is about abortions. Roe v. Wade was handed down in 1973. Some Christians - not all by any means as many if not most main line Christians see a need for safe abortions - have prayed "endlessly" for GOD to stop the killing of innocents.

But GOD has not. Stopped abortions. Which I assume Christians think HE could if HE wished to. I must therefore assume GOD is saying "NO!" So it follows, are HIS follower going to accept HIS decision or will they insist they KNOW better than GOD?

[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 





I think this thread is about abortions. Roe v. Wade was handed down in 1973. Some Christians - not all by any means as many if not most main line Christians see a need for sanitary abortions - have prayed "endlessly" for GOD to stop the killing of innocents.


Actually, if anyone answered your question with certainty, they would then be claiming to understand God, and of course, that would be a contradiction, since God is all-knowing.
No one can claim to understand God's design and plan.

As for prayer, it is not begging for something. It is an attempt to communicate with God, in one of several ways. Other ways to communicate with God are in our actions, and the lives we live.

God is not the "candy man". He does not dispense based upon such begging.

Jesus, in one of his last utterances on the cross, said:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


He did not ask for the Father to stop his death, an innocent. He asked Our Father for forgiveness for those who nailed Him to the cross, both directly and indirectly.

Perhaps the greatest example of what prayer is about is in Luke 22:42:


"Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."


Christ the Son asks for His suffering to be taken away, but in the same breath recognizes that if it is the Will of the Father, that may not happen..

THAT answers YOUR question, not with certainty, but with the faith and understanding that it is only one possible answer.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by ProfEmeritus]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by Aermacchi
 



If You Pray YES and GOD Says NO, Is IT Over?


Perhaps the question is too complex for you? Be not ashamed for I have noted none of the other ANTI Choice proponents have deigned to reply either.

Maybe you all have a GROUP think problem? Or a BLIND spot? Hmm?



If You Pray YES and GOD Says NO, Is IT Over?


I don't answer this because I have no idea what you are talking about

THAT MEANS IT MAKES NO SENSE!

If I pray yes? yes is a prayer? what prayer? about what? and "yes" is usually an answer to a question, what question?

and God says no? No about what?

No is usually an answer to a question. what question?

Is what over?

The entire statement is asinine

You think it is clever I do NOT and you don't even want to know what I think it is

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by Clearskies
 



I really don't understand the question.

Is what over?



I think this thread is about abortions. Roe v. Wade was handed down in 1973. Some Christians - not all by any means as many if not most main line Christians see a need for sanitary abortions - have prayed "endlessly" for GOD to stop the killing of innocents.

But GOD has not. Stopped abortions. Which I assume Christians think HE could if HE wished to. I must therefore assume GOD is saying "NO!" So it follows, are HIS follower going to accept HIS decision or will they insist they KNOW better than GOD?


hee hee wait till saint for god sees this LOL Ill let him rip this one apart. He is much better versed at this kind of thing than I am.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




Jesus, in one of his last utterances on the cross, said: Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

He did not ask for the Father to stop his death, an innocent. He asked Our Father [Was He - GOD - Not Also Jesus' Father?] for forgiveness for those who nailed Him to the cross, both directly and indirectly.

Perhaps the greatest example of what prayer is about is in Luke 22:42: "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."



That's all well and good, but what about the FIRST Gospel, Mark? Of which Luke is but an expanded copy complied decades later?

Mark 15. v34. "Toward the close of this darkness, our Lord Jesus, in the agony of his soul, cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

This is the tricky one. If this - crucifixion - was part of the plan from Day 1, this is an ODD remark to make all the more so IF Jesus was there as The Word. More probably Jesus never claimed to be GOD and later followers added that or misunderstood the meaning of Son of God, or Son of Man.


[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite



That's all well and good, but what about the FIRST Gospel, Mark? Of which Luke is but an expanded copy complied decades later?

Mark 15. v34. "Toward the close of this darkness, our Lord Jesus, in the agony of his soul, cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

This is the tricky one. If this - crucifixion - was part of the plan from Day 1, this is an ODD remark to make all the more so IF Jesus was there as The Word. More probably Jesus never claimed to be GOD and later followers added that or misunderstood the meaning of Son of God, or Son of Man.



Mark 15:39 - Says:
When the officer who stood facing Jesus saw how he gave up his spirit, he said, "Certainly, this man was the Son of God!"

At the moment you are speaking of, Jesus had fully become sin for us, God cannot be in the presence of sin, so the spirit departed from him so his destiny could be fufilled. He became sin, took on all our sins, and died as the payment for them.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by Clearskies
 



I really don't understand the question.

Is what over?



I think this thread is about abortions. Roe v. Wade was handed down in 1973. Some Christians - not all by any means as many if not most main line Christians see a need for sanitary abortions - have prayed "endlessly" for GOD to stop the killing of innocents.

But GOD has not. Stopped abortions. Which I assume Christians think HE could if HE wished to. I must therefore assume GOD is saying "NO!" So it follows, are HIS follower going to accept HIS decision or will they insist they KNOW better than GOD?


hee hee wait till saint for god sees this LOL Ill let him rip this one apart. He is much better versed at this kind of thing than I am.



God created us with free will, that does not mean we will always decide to do the right thing. So Christians may pray for the end of abortions, however if someone is bound and determined to get one, they will.....free will.....



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




Jesus, in one of his last utterances on the cross, said: Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

He did not ask for the Father to stop his death, an innocent. He asked Our Father [Was He - GOD - Not Also Jesus' Father?] for forgiveness for those who nailed Him to the cross, both directly and indirectly.

Perhaps the greatest example of what prayer is about is in Luke 22:42: "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."



That's all well and good, but what about the FIRST Gospel, Mark? Of which Luke is but an expanded copy complied decades later?

Mark 15. v34. "Toward the close of this darkness, our Lord Jesus, in the agony of his soul, cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

This is the tricky one. If this - crucifixion - was part of the plan from Day 1, this is an ODD remark to make all the more so IF Jesus was there as The Word. More probably Jesus never claimed to be GOD and later followers added that or misunderstood the meaning of Son of God, or Son of Man.
[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]


You expected us to get all that from THIS!



If You Pray YES and GOD Says NO, Is IT Over?


Gimmee a break dude, you're just being an antagonistic fly in the ointment with this kind of tactic now.

You are not even worth taking the time to pay any attention to anymore

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 





Mark 15. v34. "Toward the close of this darkness, our Lord Jesus, in the agony of his soul, cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" This is the tricky one. If this - crucifixion - was part of the plan from Day 1, this is an ODD remark to make all the more so IF Jesus was there as The Word. More probably Jesus never claimed to be GOD and later followers added that or misunderstood the meaning of Son of God, or Son of Man.


Look, is this a thread about abortion, or am I going to listen to an atheist try to pick apart the NT line by line.
I will answer your question, but after that it's back to the ORIGINAL OP topic.

Reading the ENTIRE NT in CONTEXT, it is obvious that Jesus never doubted his Divinity:


"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." (John 10:17-18)


If you seriously are trying to understand the NT, then I suggest you visit your local minister or priest. If you are just trolling, then troll on a thread where your questions apply.

In any case, for an atheist, you seem to spend a lot of time quoting the NT. I think the man dost protest too much. It sounds to me like you are proselytizing for atheism.

You are at a great disadvantage though. Unlikne atheists, Christians have faith, to fill in, where God has chosen not to reveal explanations to us.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus



You are at a great disadvantage though. Unlikne atheists, Christians have faith, to fill in, where God has chosen not to reveal explanations to us.


Yes and isn't interesting where evolution has unexplained gaps in the theory they have the "God of Time" fill it in LOL

It's like MAGIC!
Ill take the supernatural over the Magic time machine any day



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 


Yes, friend it is.
What always has amazed me concerning many atheists, is that they feel that they know it all, and thus, have no need for God, since they are all powerful. I call it delusions of grandeur.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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Just an FYI: Supernatural and Magic are not the only two options.

I believe we are created/DNA engineered - by more evolved beings.

No Magic - No Supernatural.

Of course - you don't need to agree with me. No one can prove one belief over another.

The reason anyone makes a decision - is more important then the decision itself.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by UltraAgentGirl
 




Mark 15:39 - Says:
When the officer who stood facing Jesus saw how he gave up his spirit, he said, "Certainly, this man was the Son of God!"

At the moment you are speaking of, Jesus had fully become sin for us, God cannot be in the presence of sin, so the spirit departed from him so his destiny could be fufilled. He became sin, took on all our sins, and died as the payment for them.



Gulp! Are you suggesting you are willing to put MORE credence in a by-stander's remark than in King Jesus, one of the Trinity?




At the moment you are speaking of, Jesus had fully become sin for us, God cannot be in the presence of sin, so the spirit departed from him so his destiny could be fulfilled. He became sin, took on all our sins, and died as the payment for them.



Where did you go to theological school? Do they tell you what GOD can do and what GOD cannot do? That must be on heck of a theological school! Who would be so presumptive as to tell GOD he cannot stand here or he cannot stand there. Your "source" is in water over his or her head.


[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]



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