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Vatican attacks US abortion move

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posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


You're wrong. This isn't a "second life" yet, there's no obligation. Until a child is born, it is growing in one of your organs and you can decide what happens to it. It is not a separate entity from the mother.

Saying to just "not have sex" is ridiculous, sex is not just for creating babies. I'm not saying I condone using abortion as a form of birth control, but I don't have the right to tell anyone else how to treat their uterus.




posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by TasteTheMagick
 





Saying to just "not have sex" is ridiculous, sex is not just for creating babies.

I'm talking about birth control.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Oh, sorry. I support birth control %100. But no birth control is %100 effective. Accidents DO happen. My brother got through a condom AND foam.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




I'm talking about birth control.



This lady was condom proof!



LOS ANGELES – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said. Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter, Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.

"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children and no husband.
I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married." Nadya Suleman, 33, gave birth Monday in nearby Bellflower. She was expected to remain in the hospital for at least a few more days, and her newborns for at least a month.

While her daughter recovers, Angela Suleman is taking care of the other six children, ages 2 through 7, at the family home in Whittier, about 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles. She said she warned her daughter that when she gets home from the hospital, "I'm going to be gone."

Her mother said she does not believe her daughter will have any more children. "She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be." Her daughter's obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house. Angela Suleman told reporters Friday that doctors implanted far fewer than eight embryos, but they multiplied. Experts said this could be possible since Nadya Suleman's system has likely been hyper stimulated for years with fertilization treatments and drugs.

The news that the octuplets' mother already had six children sparked an ethical debate. Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that she was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.

Others worried that she would be overwhelmed trying to raise so many children and would end up relying on public support. "This woman could not comprehend the ramifications of having eight children of the same age at the same time," said Judith Horowitz, a Parkland, Fla.-based psychologist and author who works with couples on fertility issues. "After Pampers stops delivering the free diapers, then what?"

The eight babies - six boys and two girls - were delivered by cesarean section weighing between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces. Forty-six physicians and staff assisted in the deliveries.
news.yahoo.com...


How much AIR and WATER should any person be allowed to use?

[edit on 2/1/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by TasteTheMagick
 

Yes, I understand that. That is why I suggest adoption as an alternative, if at all possible. In addition to giving the child a chance at life, many women who did chose abortion later regretted it, and this would also give the women a second chance in a psychological way:
www.lifenews.com...

Norma McCorvey, the former Roe of the infamous Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that legalized unlimited abortion, isn't the only woman who wants the high court to reverse the case. Joining McCorvey at a press conference this week were women who had abortions and say it was he worst decision of their life.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 





Pope Benedict XVI To Name Nadya Suleman Catholic Mother of the Year?

Do you have a source for the above, or is this just your hope?

What this woman did, by the way, was just as sinful, since from all reports, she is unable to properly care for 14 children.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Not all women feel like that though. A lot of the time the guilt comes from people who spout off about how abortion is murder and all that. It's really not. I think that there would be major protesting if they actually tried to reverse RvW.

It's a choice. There are a lot of women that don't have a problem with it.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




Do you have a source for the above?



No.

But the Church has in the past given many awards to women who have prodigious numbers of children . No money, just awards.


[edit on 1/31/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 





No. But the Church has in the past given many awards to women who have prodigious numbers of children . No money, just awards.


OK, so you point is......?

And such an "award" or piece of paper with some flowery words affects you how......?



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




OK, so you point is......? And such an "award" or piece of paper with some flowery words affects you how......?



Hey prof, ever hear of Medicaid? Food stamps? Section 8? Who do you think pays for that? As a taxpayer I want to be consulted when someone wants to act like a side-show freak!

Dumb awards might encourage some other disturbed girl to to a repeat?

[edit on 1/31/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick

Oh, sorry. I support birth control %100. But no birth control is %100 effective. Accidents DO happen. My brother got through a condom AND foam.


Chrons - and other similar illnesses - where you could throw up a pill is a vulnerable situation also.

There are IUD's and Shields - etc - - but we went through a few years where there were some problems (including death) - - many women went back on the pill during this time.

Why is there no male pill? I'm sure its possible - perhaps there isn't enough interest.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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The adoption "answer" again. Seriously naive.

There are plenty of babies up for adoption. They just don't happen to be white.

This is a fact - not a race issue.

Do I even need to mention the Gay adoption issue?



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 





Hey prof, ever hear of Medicaid? Food stamps? Section 8? Who do you think pays for that? As a taxpayer I want to be consulted when someone wants to act like a side-show freak! Dumb awards might encourage some other disturbed girl to to a repeat?

So, let me get this straight. You're worried about an award, which you admit is ONLY in your MIND, which has no money, and that it will encourage imaginary girls to have a baby, so that they can receive a piece of paper?

You must do a lot of worrying then.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





Do I even need to mention the Gay adoption issue?

What about it? We have neighbors that are gay that adopted 2 children.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 



You must do a lot of worrying then


My hat is off! You are too smart by half.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick


Hey, men shouldn't have a say in the matter. They don't have to grow something inside of them for 3/4 of a year. They run out on the women that have their children all the time.

The point of the matter is that it's not their body that has to go through a pregnancy. The right of choice applies ONLY to a woman because all of this is going on in HER uterus.


I'm lost here...first it is the woman making a choice that a child is not what she wants in her life...we have read many post on how having that child could ruin her future and why abortion can be such a good and right move, but then you see nothing wrong with zero choice for the father who could have his life ruined too with a minmum of 18 years of payments.

I have three male friends who live a rather poor lifestyle due to child support payments, and they never had a choice.

Really in the end I just keep hearing weak arguments full of hypocrisy for why a woman should kill her’s and a father’s child.



hmmm

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick

Not all women feel like that though. A lot of the time the guilt comes from people who spout off about how abortion is murder and all that.


Do these women run around telling everyone that they had an abortion? Most likely not…

Maybe their guilt comes from when they get older and wiser and finally gain a conscience.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Why is there no male pill? I'm sure its possible - perhaps there isn't enough interest.



Actually science will end abortions for we will see 100% effective prevention in the near future. When that comes we can have a beer together and a moment of silence for the 30 million plus abortions in America alone.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

I have three male friends who live a rather poor lifestyle due to child support payments, and they never had a choice.


They had sex - that was their choice. Too bad. Whaa! Whaa! Its all about the money - right?

Since the beginning of time - women have taken the blame and the brunt of anything and everything related to reproduction. Including being barren - not producing a male heir - being cursed if there were any defects - thrown out on the streets as if they were dead for being unwed and pregnant while the man gets congratulated and slapped on the back for being Machismo.

Now women have the control of what they do with their body and whether they want to have a child or not.

When men start taking responsibility for themselves and ALL men through legislation of Federally mandated DNA paternity testing - - then maybe I'll have some compassion. But not until then.

Do you honestly believe most women just want a paycheck? They don't. They want the father of their children to be a father (yes I know the exceptions). Many women know that if they have the baby - they are going to be the sole responsible parent - making all the decisions - feeding/clothing/educating. Oh Whoop-de-do - - does a paycheck stay up all night with a sick child? Lose a job over not being able to find a baby sitter - etc - etc - etc - etc - etc.

But I'll start with a mandatory paycheck from every sperm donor - by Federal law.

Obviously you and others don't get it.







[edit on 31-1-2009 by Annee]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Annee

Why is there no male pill? I'm sure its possible - perhaps there isn't enough interest.



Actually science will end abortions for we will see 100% effective prevention in the near future. When that comes we can have a beer together and a moment of silence for the 30 million plus abortions in America alone.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Xtrozero]


I guarantee you if man was the one who got pregnant and had to burden the responsibility - - there would have been a male birth control pill years ago.

Well thank you men - because you are responsible for us women taking charge and demanding our RIGHTS in reproduction or not.



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