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Vatican attacks US abortion move

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Since I believe nothing exists but energy consciousness - physical is a creation - it has no bearing on my position.
Consciousness is what gives created biology life.
Energy consciousness is eternal.
Removal of biological cells has no bearing on eternal consciousness.


Then I guess that eternal energy consciousness won't be too put out by divorce, finances, living conditions and the rest, so let the child develop in peace.




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Supercertari
 


That's insane. If you can't feed, clothe, or otherwise take care of a child, you have no right bringing it into the living world. I don't understand how people can say that it's better to bring a child into a life of poverty, hardship and basic struggle than to abort the pregnancy.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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One of the best lines ever: "1500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

Scientists today are going beyond physical (biology). They are researching consciousness - quantum physics - string theory - multiple universes - etc.

There is so much we don't know. All of us.

In my BELIEF (yes it is a belief - I'm not saying I know anything or am right. I'm saying I have a belief). Everything is energy (intelligent conscious energy is our Creator). Everything is created by thought. Physical is a created state that gives thought action.

When you act - the act is not as important as the thought generating the act. Some say why you choose to abort is not important. In my believe it is the only thing important.

What choices and why you made them in this incarnation will be with you for all eternity. Could some thought actions be negative and have a negative effect on your eternal consciousness? Yes. Could some thought actions be positive and have a positive effect on your eternal consciousness? Yes.

Its rare for me to get involved enough to do long explanations. That's it.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


There is huge difference between KNOWING something, and saying that you think that you know something.

I have never claimed that I know anything for sure. Religious people, however, claim to KNOW the answers to ultimate question(s). I guess that is the price they have to pay for access to the eternal life...

All I'm saying here is that there is sufficient evidence that Bible is not trustworthy historical document due to lots of inconsistencies contained in it.

History, regardless of what we think of it, has a scientific element to it...so in that sense, you indirectly did use the word "scientific"



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


Let the Vatican pay for this medieval folly!

Jeez! I wish we were half as smart as the Chinese. I feel sure without knowing that anyone with 6 children already cannot afford more. Unless her name is Gates or Buffet. 14 children! Sweet Jesus! That is crazy! This story indicates the mother is a SINGLE parent mooching off her too good for their own good parents.

Here it costs $58 to take ONE child to the every six months visit to the pediatrician. If you took 14 to the pediatrician, it would cost $812! For the office call. And you’d have to have half the doctor’s appointment book for one day! Holy Christ! You’d have to buy a school bus and hire 2 nurses to haul your brood of kids back and forth.

Foster homes here pay $850 a month for a pre-teen child. Can you imagine the State of California paying $11,900 a month while the goofy mother is off getting mental health care? Another $4,000 a month! And the grandfather does not seem to be much brighter.

We used to neuter idiots so they did not overload the tax rolls with more idiots. Maybe we need to re-examine the past? And we listen to some guy 7,000 miles away in Rome who swore off women years ago give family advice? Sweet Jesus!

ONLY in America!



WHITTIER, Calif. – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week already had six children but refused the option of reducing the number of embryos she was carrying last year, her mother said. Angela Suleman said good news for her daughter is all the babies appear healthy.

"I looked at those babies. They are so tiny and so beautiful," Suleman told The LA Times on Thursday. Suleman's daughter gave birth to the octuplets Monday at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center but had requested that doctors keep her name confidential.

She also was counseled about the risks of her pregnancy then in its 12th week and about the option of aborting some fetuses when she arrived at the hospital, Dr. Harold Henry said. Suleman said her daughter had not expected so many embryos to keep developing, but rejected selective reduction.

"What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed," Suleman told the Times. "That is a very painful thing." Doctors had been expecting only seven babies, but an eighth was born in the Caesarean delivery. Media knew little about the woman until a family acquaintance told CBS' "The Early Show" on Thursday that the mother is "fairly young" and lives with her parents and her six children.

Within hours, media had camped out at the family's home in Whittier, where the babies' grandfather pulled up in a minivan in the evening and briefly spoke to The Associated Press. Beside him were two children a 7-year-old and 6-year-old who said they were excited to have eight new siblings. But the grandfather warned that media may have a tougher time finding the family after the babies are released from the hospital.

Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the NYU School of Medicine, added: "I don't think it's our job to tell them how many babies they're allowed to have. I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients." For entire story see
news.yahoo.com...



[edit on 1/30/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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Ah yes, death, the ultimate birth control. Is this the case that you're making? Half as smart as the Chinese? It's phenomal that someone's intelligence is based merely upon race. It's a wonder there are so many different countries still. Regarding "idiots", it should be abundantly clear how judgemental you are being, and demonstratively failed in superiority such a statement would be. Comparing China versus the United States, it is not the United States that is experiencing the greater problem with explosive populations.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by StevenDye
Making gay marriage illegal.


This doesn't affect others.


An age limit on sex-drink-driving.
Drugs that are illegal.


This does affect others and should therefore be forbidden (although soft drugs has shown to cause very few problems and therefore arguable).



In addition, the baby that is minced up like it was a Caesars salad put through a la machine food processor is saying I SHOULD BE SO AFFECTED! I WAS ALIVE ONCE! Just long enough to PISS ME OFF! And why?

Because Man has gotten so self-centered thinking only of themselves and only of the immediate gratification they derive from the sex without consequence they FORGOT TO CONSIDER SOMEONES LIFE MAY BE AT STAKE! What is most hysterical is while you are fortunate enough to have survived the ordeal of your own fetal development being lucky enough to have a mother that did not off you with all the casual savoir fair it takes for having a wart removed, YOU call yourself a Christian.

Not only that but a "progressive" Christian?
I’m sorry, but when did being a Christian have anything to do with what is in style and progressive? You are no more progressive than Obama is for his so called progressive Christianity at the church for hating white people.

While he may be the "Progressives" choice, Abortion is not progressive. To think in this century currently with all the advances we have made, to think we have "progressed" to the level of barbarism it takes to kill ones own off spring. It makes us soooo much more highly evolved than all the other creatures of the earth still trying to figure out how to kill off their own offspring in what can only be seen as the most antithetical exhibition of evolutions survival of the fittest I have ever heard of.

Yes yes I can see it now Christian, I can see it so clearly it makes me wonder how those Neanderthal nin com poops at the Vatican could have missed it not seeing how "Progressive it is to support such asinine healers of the Hippocratic oath.

Doctors healing choice rather than saving lives! What a NOVEL IDEA! hehe ta hell with the kid KILL IT!

Yeah that is typical of the Pope isn't it? It is no wonder you are surprised and while you call yourself a "Progressive Christian" how Progressive of you to call the other Christians, "Morons".

You epitomize the "progressive" Christian in what can only be seen as an act befitting Jesus himself.

yes yes I can see it now, Jesus going into the land of the leper healing the open sores and pustules of the flesh rotting off the bodies of those afflicted with it only to work tirelessly healing the sick and making the blind to see and the crippled to walk but lo and behold comes a woman!

A woman who walks with a slight waddle due to her unique form of infirmity and sickness. She has it so much worse than those others, what with having to vomit in every morning and the grotesque tumor like growth emanating from her bowel to her bosom. Yes she needs healing and the kind only a progressive could provide.

Jesus, the Progressive messiah, who like you, wants only to heal her of her unwanted pregnancy.

As he lay his hand on the belly of the female victimized by this wretched reminder of our own lack of responsibility our own selfish supreme court sponsored and approved right to escape accountability for our own selfish acts of indulgence and modern sexual expression.

Progressive Jesus shouts and says DIE Demon, you unwanted soul!

While inhabiting this poor woman thou hast cramped her lifestyle with your ghastly presence and limited her right to choose!

You viper that liveth in her womb.

OUT OUT I say! As progressive Jesus commands the parasite that exists be expelled from her body, the result of her delusional ideas about a sinless sexual lifestyle. The book of Mdv2 Progressives 1:11




That the kind of Jesus your brand of “progressive” Christianity believes in?

That the kind of thing Jesus was about?

If not, then shame on you






[edit on 30-1-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 




Ah yes, death, the ultimate birth control. Is this the case that you're making? Half as smart as the Chinese? It's phenomal that someone's intelligence is based merely upon race.



Don't think of it as death. Think of it as a FedEx SAME DAY DELIVERY ticket to Heaven!





[edit on 1/30/2009 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 


You can make your judgments and decisions based on your belief system. Other people can make their own. You shouldn't be forcing your view on everyone just because you think your way is the right way.

Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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The argument is really not biological - - but when the soul/consciousness enters the body.

That's really the big debate.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Supercertari
 


That's insane. If you can't feed, clothe, or otherwise take care of a child, you have no right bringing it into the living world. I don't understand how people can say that it's better to bring a child into a life of poverty, hardship and basic struggle than to abort the pregnancy.


NO! It means you have no business having sex is what it means and if you MUST their are other ways of having sex that doesn't have the potential for such dire consequences. This is no different than the advice we have given the gay community who by their same actions have had so many suffer from HIV AIDS. Only with aids you don't have a rowe v wade or an abortionist that can "heal" the result of their actions but in either case, someones life is at stake.

You need to start looking at abortion for what it really is girl, it is a tragedy and anyone with the compunction to seek this form of escape using what 99.9% of the excuses are words to the effect you are using here when so many other alternatives are not only more responsible they SAVE A KIDS LIFE.

Abortion isn't just about you



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick

That's insane. If you can't feed, clothe, or otherwise take care of a child, you have no right bringing it into the living world. I don't understand how people can say that it's better to bring a child into a life of poverty, hardship and basic struggle than to abort the pregnancy.


So you are saying that death is better than a poor life? Also, just because a child is brought into the world and will have a struggle doesn't mean they can not be successful and enjoy their life....its the only one they will get...



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


You can make your judgments and decisions based on your belief system. Other people can make their own. You shouldn't be forcing your view on everyone just because you think your way is the right way.

Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.



This is the same logic the idiots at Nambla are attempting to use in the defense of their "lifestyle"

Sorry girl, that dog won't hunt and if we allowed everyone to do whatever they existentially decided was their right then you need to get your moral compass re-calibrated before you go down that slippery slope



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.


That is a kind way to say it. Abortion is a choice for death. You can choose life or death for the child...that's it, and when someone says "I'm pro choice" they are actually pro death. So you have pro life or pro death...very simple.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.


That is a kind way to say it. Abortion is a choice for death. You can choose life or death for the child...that's it, and when someone says "I'm pro choice" they are actually pro death. So you have pro life or pro death...very simple.



Fine - if that is your belief - then don't do it.

Very Simple.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


You can make your judgments and decisions based on your belief system. Other people can make their own. You shouldn't be forcing your view on everyone just because you think your way is the right way.

Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.



This is the same logic the idiots at Nambla are attempting to use in the defense of their "lifestyle"

Sorry girl, that dog won't hunt and if we allowed everyone to do whatever they existentially decided was their right then you need to get your moral compass re-calibrated before you go down that slippery slope


Nambla involves - a person outside your own personal life.

This in no way relates.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


You can make your judgments and decisions based on your belief system. Other people can make their own. You shouldn't be forcing your view on everyone just because you think your way is the right way.

Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.



This is the same logic the idiots at Nambla are attempting to use in the defense of their "lifestyle"

Sorry girl, that dog won't hunt and if we allowed everyone to do whatever they existentially decided was their right then you need to get your moral compass re-calibrated before you go down that slippery slope


Nambla involves - a person outside your own personal life.

This in no way relates.


I was talking about the LOGIC USED NOT THE CIRCUMSTANCES

second line



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
Don't think of it as death. Think of it as a FedEx SAME DAY DELIVERY ticket to Heaven!


I'm not worried about the destination of the baby. I'm concerned about the destination of the mother.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


You can make your judgments and decisions based on your belief system. Other people can make their own. You shouldn't be forcing your view on everyone just because you think your way is the right way.

Abortion is a choice. That's the way it should be.



If this is what you call "forcing" my values on to you? YOU SHOULD BE SO INCONVENIENCED. The fact is I am no more forcing mine than you are yours so "should" on somebody else



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Isn't abortion a mother forcing her values upon another person (the baby)? I mean, what values does the baby hold? We cannot force anything by speaking, but we can force something by picking up a scalpel. Being that the baby grows, it's trending toward the desire to live.

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute." - Proverbs 31:8


[edit on 30-1-2009 by saint4God]



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