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Family bugging out by road vehicle.

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posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 06:59 AM
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Family bugging out by road vehicle.

OK Lets say you are a survivalist or at least someone taking disaster prep seriously, there's you and your partner, couple of pre teen kids and perhaps say grandma or a similar permutation of relatives.

Your prime choice of bugging out is by road(as it its for the majority of us)

So what criteria do you use when choosing what sort of vehicle to use and what to put inside it?

What I want people to try and realise that for many families or even couples is that bugging out from City or Rural location is simply not rushing out and buying a big bloody jeep with loads of gadgets fitted.

Thinks people need to consider are ( but often ignored because the jeep looks cool and macho on the drive)

Belted Seats for everyone ( its no use piling the kids intop of the guns and fishing kit as you try and drive down a gravel slope)

Internal sleeping space ( In the real world the chances are it will probably be to hot/ cold/ windy/ wet/ snowy/ dusty or susceptable to being eaten live by anything from soldier ants, fleas, chiggers, ticks etc all the way up to grizzly bears and humans. You really need to be able to accomodate your peoples sleeping needs inside your BOV.)

Catering, Washing and Toilet access ( face it if you have to survive for any length of time you dont want to be washing and crapping in a stream in mid winter, and that is providing grandma or the kids can get down the slope to the stream, nor do you want to be eating or feeding your kids MRE's Jerky or snickers bars every damn day for possibly weeks on end. You need a cooker, fuel, internal water supply, camping toilet, and waste water tank)

Equipment storage ( Its simple, your group kit needs to be carried INSIDE the vehicle on two counts, first security IE to stop people stealing your kit, Second cammoflage, thers nothing more likely to attract the attention of undesirables or even other survivalists than a vehicle liberally draped in winches, jacks, jerry cans, ropes, food lockers etc)
Stay sensible before you spout off about being armed, there is a damn good chance that anyone stumbling into you is better armed, better trained, more numerous and more desperate to resupply. Its better simply to still be armed for last ditch defence, but for no one to even notice you.)

Range ( During Hurricane Katrina and in New York State on 911 two things occured you need consider. First down New Orleans way even survivalist families that were fully prepared got caught out, Because of the mass evacuation so many vehicles were on the road at one time, all heading away from the area, many drivers found themselves crawling along at 5 mph for up to 12 hours in first gear. they ran out of fuel long before they reached safety even when they had a couple of Jerry cans of fuel extra on board.
In New York as soon as news broke many gas stations closed, some chose to close, other were told to close by cops who feared war had broken out, but the effect was the same, people ran out of fuel trying to flee the area. Other gas stations were simply sucked dry in hours by the surge in demand. You need to store enough fuel to travel from your home to your place of safety by the most long and torturous route possible, and having to do it in low gear. A rough example is if your retreat is 300 miles away you really need enough fuel aboard to do 900 miles).

Fuel Safety and Availability ( this bit many Americans hate thinking about or choose to ignore. If you need to carry lots of fuel to get to your retreat and possibly back as well it means you are carrying a lot of volatile material, the fact is its simply much safer and more fuel efficient to drive a diesel engined vehicle. Yes you V 8 small block hemi engine is sexy, but its also a liability in the fire and fuel availability stakes. Gasoline is simply to damn dangerous, it does not like being stored without being treated, it explodes far to easy, and after Sit X its much harder to get than diesel even in the US. Think about it currrently if you wanted to get extra gasoline you can go to the gas station along with all the panic stricken sheeple....... and thats about it. BUT with diesel you can try gas stations, truck stops, trucks themselves, frieght depots, freight yards, locomotive stables, railroad sidings, military depots, boat yards, airports, farms, farm suppliers and other agricultural sources. even in the US there is billions of gallons more long life diesel available than gasoline).

Expansion ( With a decent sized diesel powered vehicle like a converted panel van or off road SUV you can increase your storage needs by fitting false floors, and if neeccessary a quick release trailer, one that has the same size wheels, tires and stud pattern as your Vehicle. You can also for a roll out awning to giove tyou more water and wind proof temporary living accomodation. At a push you can fit a roof tent to allow for more sleeping space)

Flexability ( There is simply no reason why your BOV can not be used as your every day drive to work vehicle, millions of people drive, panel vans, camper vans, SUVs, and Day vans as their normal means of transport. You can even use it to go on camping vacations with.)

All I ask you to do is to think outside the box.
Respects
NR
This is what my own self built poor mans BOV looks like
farm4.static.flickr.com...

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Northern Raider]




posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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I like these sexy tents that fit over pickups, SUVs, etc.. Camping Tent Connection

Unfortunately, my truck will be filled with dogs, cats, and animal food.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Northern Raider

In New York as soon as news broke many gas stations closed, some chose to close, other were told to close by cops who feared war had broken out, but the effect was the same, people ran out of fuel trying to flee the area. Other gas stations were simply sucked dry in hours by the surge in demand.


Did this really happen? I lived in the area and I don't remember any fuel stations closing outside of the NYC area. NYC is extremely small so once you left the metro area you were again in a region with plenty of fuel. I lived only 15 minutes outside the city and gas was in supply and no one was on line waiting for gas.

What I do remember is that the bridges and tunnels were closed because of the possibility of plans to blow them up as well. This removed the ability of most people to leave the city. This is actually something people should be aware of.

With the FAA halt on air traffic, the only way to leave NYC was by ferry, train, or the few highways that head north into upstate NY or CT. As a result, I spent most of that day picking up mates at the train station.

In a time of crisis, your ability to move may be severely hampered by the authorities. You should have an escape plan and route for each major highway that exists in your area. You can never know which will be shutdown or under military control when you need a way out.

Jon

EDIT: Missing coma

[edit on 1.25.2009 by Voxel]



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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NR, what we have set up is a 92 3/4 ton 4x4 gmc truck. Sorry gas, with a shell. A 16 ft. camp trailer to pull behind. Extended cab. 28 gal. gas tank. duel batteries and electric brakes for the trailer.

Gas because I saw too many trucks stalled in Wyoming winters with jelled diesel. Diesel stores much better and has other advantages as you point out however the jelling problems was the show stopper for me.

Small block gm V8. I can get parts any where. Starter is easy to change and $100 vs. $800 for a diesel starter. I only need 5 quarts of oil for an oil change vs. 20.

4X4 with a limited slip rear diff. and 5 speed manual tranny. Set up this way I can get 20 mpg on the high way about 14 on the high way pulling the trailer and 10 mpg in 4 wheel drive in the hills on jeep trails.

With the 6 ft cargo bed and the trailer I can load up a lot of stuff if I need to di di fast.

We have an advantage in that we live in one of the lowest populated areas in the US. I keep a map book of all the dirt roads and high light the ones that I have traveled and know what can and can not be done on them. This gives me the range in 4x4 pulling the trailer to get to some very out of the way places that I know of.

I store gas with stabilizer in it to double my range. Yes it is more volatile than diesel but that was an informed choice.

Our son is now 22, no small ones to deal with, and the rest of the family is 1500 km away. Only my wife and me to deal with.

Always in the truck are a hi-lift jack, axe, shovel, two spare tires, snatch rope, jumper cables and come-along. Sand boards are ready to be put in as needed.

If I lived in a highly populated area I would have a different set up, but for where we live now this set up is good for us.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 10:11 AM
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Great advice, a camper van is the best bug out vehicle for sure.

In mine beside the usual camper van stuff i have;

my BOB just in case i need to escape on foot or track a few days to find fuel, etc.

A large pop up tent because it's only a small van, the tent can make the room for 4 more people to sleep well.

A small collection of useful books -food for free, wild mushroom guides, ray mears survival skills, etc

lots of pop up water carriers, bags, etc so if we stop somewhere and set up camp we can move provisions and things around.

Ropes, Tarps, strings, hooks, wood working tools, etc so if we're stopping for a few days/weeks we can create a good shelter and create any items needed.

hehe and it'll have my motorbike inside.

And soon i'll have a little metal forge kit so i can make simple alu, brass, cast iron or whatever old metal i find along the way into useful things.

A small gravity powered generator (no not free energy, i believe in thermodynamics -a human lifts a weight and that pulls down on a cord which drives a turbine) and Solar Arrays to charge the batteries.

One last piece of kit that would be awesome is a small fruit still so i can make some ethonol to run the thing (yeah i know that means i could only travel a few hundred miles every 6months, maybe i would use it to power my bike instead as it gets aprox 90mpg and use that to locate fuel)

I intend to live in my van pretty much full time because it's perfect for my job, my holidays and pretty much everything else so it's a good investment for me and i know if i do need to bug out it's all there and all good.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Ford makes a pretty cool 4x4 van that has always perked my survival instincts. With racks on top, and a class II/III hitch for pulling whatever, I can imagine it as a good candidate for a b/o vehicle. As for what too pull, boat, trailer, etc. I've always been a fan of the water when it comes to bugging out. If I lived in say NY, I wouldn't mess with driving out. The first thing I'd do with my family is commadere a boat and b/o that way.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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This isn't realistic for severeal reasons... First and foremost, travel is going to be heavily restricted by military personnell and local safety forces. You wouldn't make it 10 miles before being stopped and possibly detained. Secondly, you will run out of fuel in a day and then wind up stranded... well, wherever you just ran out of fuel. Third, if you are bugging from a disaster you are not likely to be alone and will likely be in bumper to bumper traffic for hours, going nowhere - then you will run our fuel (See number 2 above). Third, if you are bugging from a disaster and you are the only ones who survived, the roads will likely be impassable by stalled or destroyed vehicles, damaged infrastucture etc... I could go on and on but you get the picture. Bugging out via vehicle is dumb, dumb, dumb!!!


The smarter person will shelter in place until the first wave of danger has passed and panic and chaos have somewhat tamed making travel a little safer. If SIP is not an option due to NBC (nuclear, biological or chemical attack) then you are in real trouble and I mean REAL trouble due to the circumstances outlined above. I would again recommend being prepared for such contingencies with a strong SIP plan including gas masks, visqueen plastic and duct tape. Your chances for survival are better in your home than stuck on the road.

When the time or necessity for travel is at hand your own two feet work best. This affords you flexibility. When traveling by foot you can easily take cover, travel less watched or secured routes, do not require fuel (other than food and water), are less likely to draw attention to yourself as you have a smaller profile and can more easily navigate obsticales such as bridge outages, roads jammed with traffic etc... THAT, my friends, is thinking outside the box. If walking doesn't suit you - get a bicycle!!!

All of this talk of bugging out by vehicle is moronic in my opinion.
You are basing your entire existence on a mechanical vehicle which requires fuel, has restricted travel options, could break down in an instant, has a highly visible profile (either by eye, AWAC ground radar, heat signature etc...) and only slightly serves the purposes explained for even exercising such a foolish option. Shelter? Come on, where ya gonna build the fire to stay warm or cook? Toilet? Not unless you're in a camper - stupidest thing ever or you cut a hole in the floor
. Speed? Not on carefully monitored roads, roads clogged with traffic, or roads with damaged infrastructure. Many people use the vehicle option as a way to transport their gear. Why? If you need a vehicle for all of that gear, you're not going to survuve very long anyway. Everything you need for long-term survival can be carried on your back.

No, planning for the use of a vehicle for your primary method of BO is a dead-end street. Better to utilize stragtegy and think ahead. Plan your routes through wooded areas or areas well-off the beaten path. These will be safer and will provide you with shelter and supply opportunities along the way. Your own two feet or a bicycle are the smartest ways to travel IMHO.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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These B/O threads have always interested me. One variable that we all have to contend with is location,location,location. Take for instance my family. We're already bugged out. We live on an island in the pacific. Miles from nowhere so to speak. Since I'm already bugged out, during a survival situation our focus is subsistance. If you live anywhere on the mainland you focus is getting to a relativaly defendable safe area. Having that place picked out before sit x, and knowing how your going to get there is most important. No sense going out and driving just to drive. Know where your going before you have to B/O. Again it all depends on your location.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by kozmo
 


I agree Kozmo, driving has so many nightmarish possibilites associated with it. Laying low assuming you have that luxury, is a good strategy. Wait and see then plan your next move has merit fer sure.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
(1)This isn't realistic for severeal reasons... First and foremost, travel is going to be heavily restricted by military personnell and local safety forces. You wouldn't make it 10 miles before being stopped and possibly detained. Secondly, you will run out of fuel in a day and then wind up stranded... well, wherever you just ran out of fuel. . Bugging out via vehicle is dumb, dumb, dumb!!!


(2)The smarter person will shelter in place until the first wave of danger has passed and panic and chaos have somewhat tamed making travel a little safer.


(3)All of this talk of bugging out by vehicle is moronic in my opinion.
You are basing your entire existence on a mechanical vehicle which requires fuel, has restricted travel options, could break down in an instant, has a highly visible profile (either by eye, AWAC ground radar, heat signature etc...)

No, planning for the use of a vehicle for your primary method of BO is a dead-end street. Better to utilize stragtegy and think ahead. Plan your routes through wooded areas or areas well-off the beaten path. These will be safer and will provide you with shelter and supply opportunities along the way. Your own two feet or a bicycle are the smartest ways to travel IMHO.


Nice to know you are perfect and have covered all eventualities
(1) Exactly how do you KNOW this, Please explain exactly why the military in the US, UK, Australia etc is going to stop people from bugging out in every possible disaster situation. Please enlighten us to your divine wisdom why for example (and as history has shown us) would a government and military stop the population of say New Orleans fleeing something like a huge great Hurricane, and of course why everyone should not use the most prolific escape routes the roads.

(2) So you intend to remain in place as the tidal surge, wall of lava, tsunami, mud slide, forest fire, epidemic or invasion overwhelms you so you can leave later!!!!!!

(3) Good job its only your divine opinion and not the real worlds. Y'see the rest of mere mortals can handle the concept of a vehicle based BOV concept as one part of our preparations, one option available to us among other things. We are not blessed with perfect knowledge of what out governments, mother nature and our militaries are going to do in advance unlike yourself.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Northern Raider]



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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Northern Raider I mean no disrespect to your knowledge and ideas. They are more intelligent and level headed then most.

How ever for the record I am getting really sick and tired of you dissing the jeep because you don't like it. The jeep is really as useful as the claims make it sound.

You have made it very clear repeatedly you don't like or want a jeep of any sort. Good for you. You have made your choice but so have many of us myself included many of us have chosen the Jeep.

I have chosen a jeep instead of a slow over weight lumbering gas guzzler. For my part of the world the jeep is the proper tool. Maybe in your part of the world its not.

The van you linked to would not go down many of the trails In my state but the jeep can and does very well. so what is the use of having a BOV if you cant bug out to your chosen location. A van sunk in door deep mud is useless

Remember there is more then one kind of Jeep Well the wrangler also know as the YJ is small and your points are valid on the capacity but they will go any ware and sip fuel because of the lightness of them. For a single person or small family the YJ can be a great tool.

My choice is the Jeep Cherokee also known as the XJ Well it is heavier then the YJ but it can carry a bunch more and still has the nimbleness to go down the narrow trails and threw the mud and small streams.

The BOV must be tailored to more then just the amount of people and supplies you have it must also be tailored to ware you are. for many of us Americans The Jeep that you so despise is in fact the right choice, and the huge panel van/homemade camper is the wrong choice.

I have enjoyed your information you have supplied us all on your choice of BOV and feel it will help many. I how ever feel you are not doing the survivalist community a service by putting down what some consider a great tool. don't know what your hang up is with the Jeep and don't really care its not right for you but please don't insult those of us who consider it the right tool.

Remember there is no malice meant here at all As I said I respect you greatly.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by angryamerican
Northern Raider I mean no disrespect to your knowledge and ideas. They are more intelligent and level headed then most.

How ever for the record I am getting really sick and tired of you dissing the jeep because you don't like it. The jeep is really as useful as the claims make it sound.

You have made it very clear repeatedly you don't like or want a jeep of any sort. Good for you. You have made your choice but so have many of us myself included many of us have chosen the Jeep.

Remember there is no malice meant here at all As I said I respect you greatly.


And I dont mean to offend jeep owners, theres nothing wrong with them in fact my wife has only recently parted with hers for a Shogun. Jeeps make good BOVs for some folks, thats an undeniable fact, but look back at my header, the article is about bugging out by road with your family. You can not sleep mum dad, kids and gran inside a jeep, simple fact. You cant get a kitchen, bathroom and toilet into a jeep thats a fact. and you cetainly can not get both of the former in a jeep at the same time. A jeep can and does serve as a great BOV for single dudes or dudettes, or at a push even couples for three of the four seasons. They can get to so many more places an ordinary panel van can not get to, That gives them access to more remote areas unless you can aford a Quigly or Sportsmobile 4x4 SUV. I would think that if I was working away from home and apart from my family I would choose a Landy, Jeep, Shogun, Vitara etc as my individual BOV to get me back home and my first choice would be a Jeep Wrangler because I was so impressed by my firnd in Kansas's Vehicle. I still say 4x4s are paramount as BOVs, but the fact remains if you have a family and face long periods of needing to be self reliant an ordinary 4x4 like a jeep olr landy is just not suitable. Apart from that Jeeps are great vehicles for survivalists ( especially the one Mork and Mindy drive)



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by angryamerican
Northern Raider I mean no disrespect to your knowledge and ideas. They are more intelligent and level headed then most.

The van you linked to would not go down many of the trails In my state but the jeep can and does very well. so what is the use of having a BOV if you cant bug out to your chosen location. A van sunk in door deep mud is useless



AA Just for fun and bare faced cheek, and a good laugh, If you dont mind I would like ( love ) to adress one part of your post seperately, if you dont mind. No malice intened at all. So here goes you said

" The van you linked to would not go down many of the trails In my state but the jeep can and does very well. so what is the use of having a BOV if you cant bug out to your chosen location. A van sunk in door deep mud is useless"

I would like you to take 5 minutes to look at these 3 urls ( coming up soon as I find them) then you can become enlightened and feel the need to buy me a beer


www.sportsmobile.com...

www.sportsmobile.com...

www.sportsmobile.com...

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Northern Raider]



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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No unit is going to be right for everyone. Where I live sand is more of a problem than mud.

I have seen one of the 4x4 vans here in our little town. It does not have the rock crawler set up like the ones linked in NR's link. The problem with the rock crawler set up is they tend to be a little less than friendly on the high way.

Another factor is blending in with the masses, while an H1 hummer is great off road it tends to draw attention.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Short and sweet I was in a bad mood earlier and broke my own cardinal rule and hit the send button before I thought about it. Sorry about that!

As for the links they are sweet but My main worry is the weight. Have you ever seen the Chevy Suburban. Its a happy mix of a van and a truck. www.chevrolet.com... It in itself weighs way to much. Its still less then the full conversions like you like. Sure you cant stand in it but it will haul and sleep. So what do you think?


[edit on 25-1-2009 by angryamerican]



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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Weighing in here with my setup:

2001 Ford F-250 3/4 ton 7.3 Diesel (last of the REAL 7.3's)

25 gal native fuel cap.=400 miles loaded range in adverse conditions

40 gal removable auxillary fuel for 600 miles additional range

80 degree tank heater with dedicted battery for cold weather conditions
(gelling problem solved)

Ability to run on alternative fuel (any vegetable oil). This is not sustainable due to filtration and coking issues, but can get you out of trouble. Biodiesel setup can be built from junk as long as you can get lye and methanol. (I have access to a small still already).

Sleeping gear is kept in the house, packed in tubs, along with cooking gear and the rest of the stuff needed for extended camping.

Small solar panel to maintain battery condition for long periods of sitting without burning fuel. This is an important addition for ANY BOV but especially if you have multiple batts.

Small wind generator with a mount for a locally sourced wooden mast. Pine tree most likely suspect.

Also shout out to nominate Raider for survival pimp of the year, despite the percieved Jeep bias!
And to say everyone picking up the Guy Fawkes bit are pretenders and Raider is the original.
just kidding all.

And a nod to AngryAmerican, for a small family the XJ would be a great rig if you carry a 4 seasons tent, and fit an extra batt. for gadget power. If your BOL is at the end of a goat trail in mountainous country, it is probably the ONLY way to get there.A small enclosed trailer that could be physically drug if neccesary by the Jeep (4' x 4' x 6') that carried your dirty supplies like tarps, batts, porta potti, and extra fuel would have you riding in style.

If I didn't have 4 rugrats, I would do a diesel Jeep Liberty with the small trailer setup. I just love the oilburners. If Jeep would put them in something of size I think they would have a hit.

Anyone serious about this, that does not own a BOV yet, check out this survival porn:

Diesel blazer

shelter

trailer for
shelter


Less than $8000 for a complete rig


Or for the guy that just has to one-up

Deuce and a Half

Kind of blows the whole "under the radar" bit though



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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Well, I'm just glad I've got a diesel 4x4. Once you're out of town it would be a lot easier to "aquire" diesel, if necessary. And a 4x4 can carry more weight generally, too.



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by angryamerican
Short and sweet I was in a bad mood earlier and broke my own cardinal rule and hit the send button before I thought about it. Sorry about that!

As for the links they are sweet but My main worry is the weight. Have you ever seen the Chevy Suburban. Its a happy mix of a van and a truck. www.chevrolet.com... It in itself weighs way to much. Its still less then the full conversions like you like. Sure you cant stand in it but it will haul and sleep. So what do you think?


[edit on 25-1-2009 by angryamerican]

Glad you have forgiven me. ref the Suburban, very neat and very useful.
False floor in the back with various accessable sections, you can store all sorts of kit under that. Leaving the load bed for a rear door mounted Landrover fold away cooker and sleeping space for three, snug but feasable though I think a few extra jerry cans and Hi lift jack will need stashing somewhere. You dont need to stand in any BOV you can sit to drive, navigate, wash , cook, rest, listen to radion so height is not an issue.
the Suburban would be an ideal mounted for a Magliaoni Roof Tent kit.



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by hotrodturbo7
Weighing in here with my setup:

2001 Ford F-250 3/4 ton 7.3 Diesel (last of the REAL 7.3's)

25 gal native fuel cap.=400 miles loaded range in adverse conditions

40 gal removable auxillary fuel for 600 miles additional range

80 degree tank heater with dedicted battery for cold weather conditions
(gelling problem solved)

Ability to run on alternative fuel (any vegetable oil). This is not sustainable due to filtration and coking issues, but can get you out of trouble. Biodiesel setup can be built from junk as long as you can get lye and methanol. (I have access to a small still already).

Sleeping gear is kept in the house, packed in tubs, along with cooking gear and the rest of the stuff needed for extended camping.

Small solar panel to maintain battery condition for long periods of sitting without burning fuel. This is an important addition for ANY BOV but especially if you have multiple batts.

Small wind generator with a mount for a locally sourced wooden mast. Pine tree most likely suspect.

Also shout out to nominate Raider for survival pimp of the year, despite the percieved Jeep bias!
And to say everyone picking up the Guy Fawkes bit are pretenders and Raider is the original.
just kidding all.


What a damn good combination of base vehicle and logistics, very nicely balanced set up with fuel range and storage capacity increased but still having boat loads of storage and accomodation. klike the PV and micro turbine to keep the liesure batts topped up, A Chap in canada uses two roof mounted PV cells to give his liesure batts a charge but also to a small oil pan warmer in winter. I suppose you could use one to heat up your diesel tank as well.

OMG I'm a pimp, does that mean I have to move to Chicago and start slapping ladies around, my flares and platform boots dont really fit any more



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Well, I'm just glad I've got a diesel 4x4. Once you're out of town it would be a lot easier to "aquire" diesel, if necessary. And a 4x4 can carry more weight generally, too.


Some chap from your part of the world mentioned that theres research going into using eucalyps to make a bio diesel with. apparently those trees are as common as 4x and burn like stink because of the high oil content.
Never seen Eucalyptus diesel but i bet it smells nice




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