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IF there was no GOD ??????

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posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by converge


And maybe it's because I know this that I enjoy my life, knowing that this is the only one I have, so I better use it for something useful and good.


Useful and good? You just said you believe it will all perish as if it never happened, how can any action be useful and good if nobody ever existed? you never actually enjoyed your life. Because in a way you never existed.

That is the most depressing thought I can think of. I want to live my life so I can learn from it, not disappear and forget. The greatest gift to me is life. Taking that away.. would make none of this worth it.


[edit on 27-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]




posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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Well it's your decision how you take it. If it were for nothing then wouldn't you want to have fun as much as you can now? It is a depressing thought but make the best of it. That's how I see at least.

-Kyo



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Yes live in the moment.

But I don't believe what I was saying, it was a hypothetical.

I believe the universe is way to vast, way too complicated, way too perfect to be just out of nothing. There is more than meets the eye, that's for sure.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Solarskye
Sometimes I believe criminals are only alive today because of a God. If there was no God then who would stop the good people from killing those who choose to steal, kill and commit other crimes?


From that perspective not only has god allowed bad people to commit crimes - nevermind the fact the has allowed them to exist in the first place - but protected the bad people from the good people... What does that say about god?



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Useful and good? You just said you believe it will all perish as if it never happened


Yes I believe everything will perish, and it's just a matter of time, but I've never said that it would be "as if it never happened".



how can any action be useful and good if nobody ever existed?


But people have existed and they exist in present time. Actions matter, as I've pointed out in my previous posts, numerous people have died long time ago but have left a legacy, changed the world and impacted other people's lives, at the time and forever, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. So I would say that actions do matter.



That is the most depressing thought I can think of. I want to live my life so I can learn from it, not disappear and forget. The greatest gift to me is life. Taking that away.. would make none of this worth it.


Aren't you alive now? Don't you already have "the greatest gift"? So how come the fact of not existing life after death changes that?

It's a gift whether there's life after death or not, and if you are not committing crimes and killing people just because you think there's something more after you die, then I'm glad, for my sake and everyone else's, that you believe that.



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by converge
 


I guess we can agree to disagree a little bit with our logic with when humanity and earth finishes etc.

But we can agree that enjoying life in the moment is wise and at this moment in time things do matter.

Peace.




[edit on 27-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by Solarskye
Sometimes I believe criminals are only alive today because of a God. If there was no God then who would stop the good people from killing those who choose to steal, kill and commit other crimes?


From that perspective not only has god allowed bad people to commit crimes - nevermind the fact the has allowed them to exist in the first place - but protected the bad people from the good people... What does that say about god?


Sometimes it takes bad things for people to learn and mature from it, the universe is all about positive and negative energy etc The negative things that happen in this world, makes us wiser more mature, kind of like the difference from a spoiled brat who gets everything he wants in an instant and doesn't even appreciate what he's got, and a kid who can't get whatever he wants but really appreciates nice things he gets.


We all scream for freewill yet we get angry at god for NOT stoping us making mistakes and bad things happen, which in turn means taking our freewill away..... rather ironic.

Humanity has freewill! we have that gift, isn't it then true that it's not ONLY god that allows bad things to happen, but humanity allows it to happen, humanity does this to itself.

We have been given a brain, freewill, a beautiful planet. Getting angry at god is illogical.

To me if god exists the most logical reason he has put us here, is to test, what we do in life, what we "experience" and "learn" from this life.

Once god stops bad people doing bad deeds. Then the earth experience we are having here stops, we stop learning from our mistakes, we stop becoming wiser, because god stops us from even making mistakes to learn from! lol.

Ahh life is full of wonder.

Peace.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 27 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
[We all scream for freewill yet we get angry at god for NOT stoping us making mistakes and bad things happen, which in turn means taking our freewill away..... rather ironic.


I'm glad to say I'm not one of those people as I've never really believed in any god whatsoever, but I understand and know the people you are talking about.



Humanity has freewill! we have that gift, isn't it then true that it's not ONLY god that allows bad things to happen, but humanity allows it to happen, humanity does this to itself.


If good or bad things happen regardless of god's will, that you acknowledge that humanity is capable of both bad and good things that result in certain consequences, why is then god a needed variable in this equation of everyday life?



To me if god exists the most logical reason he has put us here, is to test, what we do in life, what we "experience" and "learn" from this life.


You're assuming that god, the supposedly all knowing and all powerful entity that created the Earth and man, needs to test us... but why would he?

If we accept the premise of an omniscient god then he doesn't need to test anything, he already knows what will happen.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by yenko13
IF there was no GOD would you change anything in your daily life ,

Would you commit crime ?

Would you harm people to get ahead ?

Would you be one that cant picture this and would create your own GOD ?


good question. if god didnt exist, likely there would be nothing after death. so yes it might change a few things.

im not sure i would commit crime. the reason i dont commit is not because of my belief in god, it has more to do with the consequences that i dont want to face.

i also do think i would harm others to get ahead for 2 reasons, -same as the above statement, it come back to bite you and i wouldnt like the consequences. and -im not a very ambitious person.

im not sure it would change the way i live my life, but it would change my attitude. i dont think i would be able to deal emotionally with being sick. i think i would probably be alot more scared. it would probably make me alot more depressed.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by converge


You're assuming that god, the supposedly all knowing and all powerful entity that created the Earth and man, needs to test us... but why would he?

If we accept the premise of an omniscient god then he doesn't need to test anything, he already knows what will happen.


Freewill.........


Don't ask me more, now I'm getting confused haha. I'm not all knowing that's for sure lol.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
good question. if god didnt exist, likely there would be nothing after death. so yes it might change a few things.

im not sure it would change the way i live my life, but it would change my attitude. i dont think i would be able to deal emotionally with being sick. i think i would probably be alot more scared. it would probably make me alot more depressed.


Your attitude would change because you'd understand the implications of your death, that it would be the end. Wouldn't that also make people realize just how precious life is?

Perhaps then people wouldn't wage wars so easily, and I'm sure there wouldn't be as many fanatics willing to kill themselves and others to go to 'heaven'.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Freewill.........


Freewill means letting others do whatever they want. If god really exists and wants man to have freewill then he wouldn't interfere, much less 'test' people.

You can't have it both ways. If he tells man "you have freewill" but then tests him and punishes him for his choices, that's not freewill, it's manipulation.

I do not believe in god, certainly not in a biblical kind of god, but I think that if god exists he wouldn't have created all of this just so he can manipulate his creations like toys.


[edit on 28-1-2009 by converge]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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Why would people change the way they live their lives just because a man that they can't see is confirmed to not exist? You shouldn't do good things and be a good person JUST because there's a guy that will punish you when you die if you don't. That's the very flaw in religion.

It's contradictory in nature and it creates a false sense of a moral high ground. Religion does not effect morality. Parents should teach their children morality on their own. God has no place in the matter entirely.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by converge
Your attitude would change because you'd understand the implications of your death, that it would be the end. Wouldn't that also make people realize just how precious life is?

Perhaps then people wouldn't wage wars so easily, and I'm sure there wouldn't be as many fanatics willing to kill themselves and others to go to 'heaven'.


belief in god doesnt mean you view life as worthless.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
belief in god doesnt mean you view life as worthless.


Nor did I say that. What I said is that perhaps if some people didn't believe there was something else, some place safe they would go after they would die, they wouldn't be so willingly to go there even if it meant taking others with them.

But now that you say that, I hope you understand there's another side to the coin, and it's what I've been contesting:

Not believing in god (or after life) doesn't mean you view life as worthless.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

im not sure it would change the way i live my life, but it would change my attitude. i dont think i would be able to deal emotionally with being sick. i think i would probably be alot more scared. it would probably make me alot more depressed.


I'm sure god exists, how can someone as beautiful as you get created randomly out of nowhere!!?


(that was a bad attempt at flirting by the way haha)

[edit on 28-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I'm sure god exists, how can someone as beautiful as you get created randomly out of nowhere!!?


(that was a bad attempt at flirting by the way haha)


It seems to me that people rush to point out how beautiful things are as if it's proof of god's existence. How about all the horrible and bad things? Weren't those created by god as well? Or does he only create good and beautiful things?

If one assume god is the creator, then he created all things, not just the good and beautiful ones.

He created all the diseases, the babies that are born dead or with deficiencies, all the serial killers and all the tyrannical dictators that enslaved and slaughtered millions of civilians.

By the way, the non-existence of god doesn't mean things get 'created' out of randomness, because if you believe that then you can't but believe that our world is only possible because of god, and taking into consideration how #ed up the world is, I don't think that speaks much of god's power or will.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by miriam0566
belief in god doesnt mean you view life as worthless.


Nor did I say that. What I said is that perhaps if some people didn't believe there was something else, some place safe they would go after they would die, they wouldn't be so willingly to go there even if it meant taking others with them.

But now that you say that, I hope you understand there's another side to the coin, and it's what I've been contesting:

Not believing in god (or after life) doesn't mean you view life as worthless.


i agree. as i said in my initial post, if i knew without a doubt that there was no god, it wouldnt change much. but it would change how i deal with problems emotionally.

your right about bombers though, however you have to remember that they are a minority of a minority. it takes fanaticism mixed with alot of hatred to get to that point



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by miriam0566

im not sure it would change the way i live my life, but it would change my attitude. i dont think i would be able to deal emotionally with being sick. i think i would probably be alot more scared. it would probably make me alot more depressed.


I'm sure god exists, how can someone as beautiful as you get created randomly out of nowhere!!?


(that was a bad attempt at flirting by the way haha)

[edit on 28-1-2009 by _Phoenix_]


lol

im not sure what to say lol



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by converge
He created all the diseases, the babies that are born dead or with deficiencies, all the serial killers and all the tyrannical dictators that enslaved and slaughtered millions of civilians.


thats not necessarily true.

the knife is a very useful tool. but if used incorrectly, it can result in injury or even death. does this mean that the inventor of the knife is responsible for its misuse?

that is a simplified example, but its true. if (i say if because i respect that you may be an atheist) god created man and gave him freewill, then using that freewill to sin would be misuse. naturally it would lead to consequences. and im not speaking of consequences that god has anything to do with.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by miriam0566]



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