It has come to the attention of our staff (and many members utilizing our system for complaints) that a general tone of angst has infected AboveTopSecret.com, diminishing the civility and decorum we require from all participants.


The Political Season

Every four years, we (the collective "we") endure an increased cycle of bitterness as a byproduct of the political campaigns and partisan media hacks. For all practical purposes, noticing and to some extent mirroring, the uncivil rhetoric and personal attacks is unavoidable.

Over the past few months, we tolerated some of the tonality this cycle of bitterness injected into the discussions here on ATS.


It Stops Today

Beginning now, as of the time-stamp of this post, we will be returning to strictly enforcing the long-standing rules of civility and decorum that have been the hallmarks of AboveTopSecret.com. More specifically:

(1) Any posts/replies that focuses on a member rather than the topic of the thread, or follow the normal evolution of a thread's focus, will be subject to warnings.

(2) Any posts/replies that contain a direct insult of another member will be subject to immediate posting bans, without warning.

(3) Typical "Decorum" and "Political Trolling" posts will be under closer scrutiny, and may be removed with the warning icons.


But, Politics Are Dirty

Yes, American politics are typically a mud-pit of mayhem, and we understand that. Also, I've personally noticed a frustratingly odd trend in that members who have long been critical of Bush, are now suddenly intolerant of criticism of Obama.

Just as we've not applied immediate warnings or Political Trolling warnings over the past few years for slags similar to "you Bushies..." we're not going to immediately consider "Obamaites" to be an outright insult. The liberals need to maintain the same backbone they expect conservatives to have during pointed criticism of Bush. However, as it is in all things, context is important, and the tone/intent of such a post will determine our action(s).


ATS Must Be Clean

Our intent here is to operate a free and open discussion venue, where civility and decorum rule the day, so that the focus is on important and provocative issues, not each other. All members, new and old, need to have complete confidence that their ideas, theories, observations, and opinions can be posted to ATS with the complete confidence that replies will remain focused on the issues in the spirit of collaborative learning and understanding.

Insults, ad-hominim attacks, and gratuitous arguing have no place here.


Thank you, in advance, for your understanding and cooperation.

It seems regrettable that you have to re-iterate a common-sense guideline which is essentially already in place.

Sadly, there does seem to be a general rise in the offense. But I will actively discourage such posts if I encounter them, unless the management prefer such exchanges be limited to moderators.

I know we are encouraged to report instances like this to the Mods, but it seems so petty as to be a wasteful use of a higher level resource like a mod.

Well said. The election is over, there was a winner, and now he is the focal point of what the government does, and is held responsible for. As it should be; he shouldn't have taken the job if he can't stand the heat.

I am all for more civility on the board. And I will certainly be giving every post the eye.

ATS is a great place because we have the will to enforce board civility. I think this thread is fair warning to those on both sides of the aisle that it's time to think before hitting the submit button.

It seems some people keep falling into the same cyclical trap that the elites keep providing for us, so this seems to be the result. Solutions are needed, not conventional partisan arguments. I do not know what else to say but please see through the trap that is so easily handed to us on a 'gold platter'.

Originally posted by Maxmars
I know we are encouraged to report instances like this to the Mods, but it seems so petty as to be a wasteful use of a higher level resource like a mod.

Actually, it's why we're here. Think of it this way- you're actually making it easier on us by alerting. The alternative is to wait until we find something on our own which invariably results in an even bigger mess to clean up.

As to "higher level resource", uh We're all just members. But thanks for the compliment.

Originally posted by Maxmars
I know we are encouraged to report instances like this to the Mods, but it seems so petty as to be a wasteful use of a higher level resource like a mod.

Actually this is what we are here for Rather than point out this type of behavior In thread the staff would much rather you alert it up. Responding to them suckes you into hir or her game and gets you off topic as well. Trying to reason and be logical with a troll is a zero sum game. They are not interested so its hardly worth wasting your time with

If you see an Issue just hit the alert tab. Staff that is on will come by, take a look, and discuss the issue, and then determine a cource of action.

The other reason we like to see an alert is many times we can intervene early. Many posters are new ATS and our rules on civility and decorum are unlike any other board. Often a u2u exchange can help someone new make the change over to our style of debate



[edit on 1/24/09 by FredT]

I agree. And if I ever use the Word "you" it is meant as a plural not a singular sense application, like when I say, " you can give up your guns." I do not know or care whether that person specifically has or would give up their guns. And even if they stated such and I were aware of asmuch, I still use you as a plural categorizing term, without adding a descriptive modifier, such as, "you anti gun lover's", which is neither necessary nor likely to be construed as the non insult it is.

SkepticOverlord, it seems like you're placing a lot of blame on the liberals here. What about those conservatives that have been posting about Obama's birth certificate-- or those that have been making false stories-- or have been making questionable claims about Obama before he's done anything? Tons of conservatives have talked about a lot of things with baseless claims-- accusing liberals of doing things which is outrageous-- or just putting a spin on a liberal idea to make it seem like it's a hanous crime-- like saying abortion is a holocaust. I don't see why so much blame should be placed on much of the liberals here. How about the conservatrolls that seem to be the most vocal that make up stuff and just believe any conspiracy just because it sounds good? What do we do about them? I applaud you for reinstating a policy that we've had for quite some time but I just ask for the same of the conservatives.

I've seen a lot of baiting by the conservatives, with them calling him the messiah, and, them trying to make liberals seem ignorant, when they're ignorant of the last 8 years. I've also seen conservatives try to rewrite history. Please, are you telling us that we have to have a backbone and hold ourselves to decorum when you're not asking for them to do the same? I can point out tons of conservative troll threads meant to inflame liberals or inflame other posters that had little grain of truth to them... but you forget that the thing is that they're attacking Obama and he's only been in office for a few days when we used to support Bush for at least the first few years he was in office... but they're already against Obama... I mean at least give him a chance.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Frankidealist35]

Oh thank God! I saw this notice in my in-box and thought I had said something that required a whole thread of scolding. LOL.

Glad to see we're all getting back on track.

From experience, alerts to Mods are answered in a timely manner and dealt with quietly and thoughtfully.

It is a shame to have to use the system, but it is there for a reason.

For the members who aren't confident about it, or believe it is a waste of time, think again. It works, and not only does it allow you to express your disgust at a post, but it alerts Moderators to a potentially T&C breaking post or posters they may have missed.

Glad to see there will be less mud slinging going on again.

Originally posted by whitewave
Oh thank God! I saw this notice in my in-box and thought I had said something that required a whole thread of scolding. LOL.

Glad to see we're all getting back on track.

Initially I thought the same, but then my senses came to and I remembered I would never insult anyone.

It's about time

I get so tired of the bickering, name calling and personal attacks I have been here less often.

I have made simple comments and have been attacked and almost given a death wish.

I might stick around if all comply there are a lot of good reasons to.

Thanks

Without order, we are nothing more than mere animals that copulate on broad day light in the middle of the streets. I think we are here to help one another reach a higher understanding. “It is better to listen in order to understand than to listen in order to reply”. Let us re evaluate our reasons on why we are here rather than focusing our energies mindlessly towards one another with arrogance. Let us redirect our energies to slowly break the walls of ignorance. By doing so, we do not only help ourselves, but our adversaries as well, rendering our childish state of chaos ineffective. If we have order, then maybe we can truly start to evolve. Peace

The political forums isnt the only area in need of attention. The new middle east forum definately contains as much if not more of this member bashing and trashing habbit. Alot of the forums under the ATS umbrella do. But those two, political and middle east forums are the worst.


Cheers!!!!

[edit on 24-1-2009 by RFBurns]

I would just like to know why a friend of mine was banned? That's all. Bakane

It seems there are some 'egos' that are creating a lot of problems, and never get delt with, it just seems a little unfair

Aw hell, it's just politics.
There's always going to be a little acrimony and vitriolic sardonicism.

It has gotten a little out of bounds around here though.

The mods are just kicking everybody back into play.

Yay!

Ok - I know one line posts are frowned on so I'll explain a little. There have been several threads in the past few months where I've read the OP and thought about adding my comments.

Then I've read the rest of the posts in the thread and said myself, "Nope, I don't want to stick my nose in here, I'll just get it bitten off regardless of what side I take".

We should be able to talk about things without resorting to that kind of stuff.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I've seen a lot of baiting by the conservatives...

And for the past seven years, the conservatives have seen a great deal of "baiting" from those not-conservative.

We're a conspiracy website. The tonality of opinion will always sway against whatever apparent ideology sits in the White House. Both artificial "sides" need to maintain a backbone during debates and heated discussions. And everyone needs to focus on the topic and not each other. Rather simple, really.

Originally posted by SANTA CLAWS
It's about time

I get so tired of the bickering, name calling and personal attacks I have been here less often.

I have made simple comments and have been attacked and almost given a death wish.

I might stick around if all comply there are a lot of good reasons to.

Thanks

Seconded, tripled, and approved.

I posted a comment on function of the chakras, and went to read a reply: I had been called TWELVE INSULTING NAMES in one small paragraph posting: then another (his friend), began attacking me also. I wasn't aware of the "report" post: but subsequently I used it (after losing 1000 points). Finally, the moderater who chose sides with the insulters, removed two posts. Another mod came on, and cleaned up further posts via editing. I said I wouldn't leave until they stopped the abuse: the fairer mod stopped it, and I never went back.

I checked the rules, and it seems that the mods were permitted to favor those they chose to, and 'shy away' from correct procedure (duty) when they felt like it. Unfair, just as posted in the above quoted comment: Unnecessary treatment of members, because they post a comment, which was harmless to begin with.

Politics I understand, but this MUST go for the entire ATS site (hopefully).

Do your work, mods: keep it clean, and all will soon comply, when they see fairness exerted in ALL directions and with ALL members.

I, too, had planned to leave this Abuse-Rampant site, but as the poster above me said, if some civilized rules began to APPLY (not just put into the 'rules' section, and meted out willy-nilly) to ALL fairly, then I, and other's who perceive the unfairness, may stay. And yes, while a couple won't be missed, you have no idea how many people dislike such treamnet when they see it, celebrity or not, friend or not. They can get that everyday, anywhere in everyday life.

Here, on ATS, some of us might like to share with other's of similar views, ask questions of others, or perhaps find information that's readily available on ATS threads, without the sheer unfairness of being insulted, attacked, abused, or just plain trolled, for the mere reason of it's being permitted.

Good work: now let's see it enforced: I will adjust my rhetoric accordingly, as I see other's won't be permitted by some mods to break these decency rules, and other's not. We shouldn't have to defend ourselves because we don't like jesu or bush or Obama. Join the war(s) if that's what thrills you: here, there's much more to partake of.