Obama tries to build support for 825,000,000,000 stimulus

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by sadchild01

 

Have you ever considered what happens to these millions of Chinese losing their jobs as a result of this crisis? They aint gonna be happy I can tell you. Particularly when the fuel is fired with food and oil shortages.

most export oriented industries are closing down. many workers have left the urban areas back to rural .

They aint gonna be happy I can tell you. Particularly when the fuel is fired with food and oil shortages.

in case of dollar collapse ,yuan will become international currency(chinese govt will have to do it to save itself ), and chinese real income rise sharply , as yuan will be free floating and no longer be undervalued .....

China will witness a deflationary price cycle in terms of goods produced , and with fiscal stimuluses the problem should be countered

food shortages will not be a issue, china is a surplus producer

China is now the biggest holder of foreign exchange reserves in the world, accumulating 2 trillions- a first in world history. A decision by China to make its currency free floating and international it will make other nations central bank follow suit by accepting yuan as part of their reserves or to shift a major portion of its reserve to the euro or the yen or gold could trigger other central banks to follow suit. Nobody would want to be left behind holding a bagfull of dollars rapidly turning worthless. The herd psychology would be very difficult to control in this case because national economic survival would be at stake.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by sadchild01]

This is all show to placate the masses who really believe that some political miracle cure for the economy exists. The only thing that can restore the economy is restoring the manufacturing base. The corporate world has spent the past 40 years transferring manufacturing off shore to get the economy to this critical point of near total collapse, and it literally would take about 40 years of transferring it all back to American facilities with American workers employed at a real living wage at them to restore the economy to it’s 1950’s, 1960’s vibrancy.

Clinton styled virtual economies built on service and wealth maintenance and cashing in on the so called equity from the bubble of appreciating assets like Dot Com Stocks, Dow Jones Industrials and real estate only work as long as that bubble can be maintained. Once people realize that the value is entirely perceived like in Dot Com Stocks the bubble completely bursts, and once appreciating assets like real estate reach a threshold where it is virtually impossible for any honest working person to afford owning even a modest home, then that bubble contracts to the point that it no longer can generate wealth either. The people who got in first and out first make a killing driving up the perceived value and cashing in on it. The people who truly depend on it though as a means of steady wealth generation end up taking a bath on it.

The only way a nation can truly be economically prosperous is to manufacture real goods that are exportable at a profit to generate truly tangible and sustainable wealth.

The real conspiracy was convincing Americans it was safe to forego manufacturing in exchange for service industries and financial/investment industries. Economics 101 clearly illustrates and demonstrates what Americans are now suffering. Create nothing of real value to sell and you become dependent upon borrowing. Fail to generate enough wealth to pay back the loan then be prepared to have your credit limited or cut all together.

I can understand why the powers that be wanted to export the nation’s wealth generating manufacturing off shore. By the late 1960’s the radical hippie movement had clearly illustrated that the average blue and white collar male worker in the United States earned a significant enough living to indulge their young adult children with not only a college education but enough disposable income to go along with it to pursue with a certain amount of real leisure a higher conscious level of thinking and philosophy. Notions like peace, equality, transparency and fairness were things people during that brief window of time could actually afford to pursue actively instead of simply spending 85% of their time trying to eek out sustenance to survive another day. People were seeking and gaining a level of education that didn’t just equate to knowledge but bordered on actually understanding.

Today 40 years later that style of life is gone. Mom no longer sits at home in the majority of cases but is our working too often dictated by economic necessity. The 40 hour work week has in most cases been replaced by a 55 to 60 hour a week work week. The ability to pay the basic bills a solitary head of household wage earner once easily managed on their own is now barely able to be done with multiple wage earners in a household contributing together. Discretionary spending as is discretionary leisure time is for all intents and purposes a thing of the past. Far fewer people are achieving higher education and most of those who don’t just amass knowledge but understanding as well are more likely to be employed by the powers that be in carrying out their manipulations, machinations and goals than protesting or fighting against them. As the prices of most things have gone up with a modest inflation, a skyrocketing inflation has been hidden by the fact that dual wage earners now pull together to augment the purchasing power of what had previously been a single wage earner, and the quality of the bulk of consumer goods as far as durability and functionality has gone way down.

That we have been set up for something through this deliberate manipulation which in no way possible has been accidental or born out of incompetence is undeniable save to those who find refuge and solace in denial.

What we are being set up for precisely is a matter of speculation. When it will happen is a matter of speculation.

These bailouts don’t offer the cure for the nation but rather a means to keep it afloat temporarily absent any change that would cure the nation’s economic woes and deficiencies.

The only thing these bailouts are really saying and accomplishing is a mechanism to loot the remaining wealth through consolidation of the leveraged assets and an even more desperate means to keep the economy functioning than the virtual economy theories born out of the madness of Clintonomics and abused to beyond ruin by Bush. It says the time is not quite right to collapse it and introduce what comes next. I suppose to that extent it behooves us to go along with the bailouts while we try to figure out what would prevent the timing to ever be right for what the deliberate effort and planning to bankrupt the world’s once most prosperous nation was ever undertaken for. The methodology alone suggests its sinister nature.

What will it take to convince the increasingly ignorant citizens of America that government for the people by the people should include the people inventing the real solutions and having their politicians carry out the logistics and mechanisms and not the politicians dictating to the people so called solutions that only add to the problem.

Creating another 850 billion dollars in debt so we can have a cheeseburger today that our children can pay for tomorrow sure does not seem like a solution to me!

Originally posted by sadchild01
most export oriented industries are closing down. many workers have left the urban areas back to rural .

From what my Chinese friends are telling me, many stay in the city... jobless...

in case of dollar collapse ,yuan will become international currency(chinese govt will have to do it to save itself ), and chinese real income rise sharply , as yuan will be free floating and no longer be undervalued .....

They undervalue the Yuan for one good reason: to remain a competitive exporter (to quickly explain: with a low valued Yuan in comparison to the Dollar/Euro, Chinese exports will remain relatively cheap in contrast to when they would let it freely appreciate).

Your claim that the Chinese government should make the Yuan an international currency, it is and will anything but an international currency. At least an international currency that will be able to compete with the Yen and Euro. If you disagree, please provide some reasoning why you think so.

China is now the biggest holder of foreign exchange reserves in the world, accumulating 2 trillions- a first in world history. A decision by China to make its currency free floating and international it will make other nations central bank follow suit by accepting yuan as part of their reserves or to shift a major portion of its reserve to the euro or the yen or gold could trigger other central banks to follow suit.

Foreign reserves yes, primarily denominated in Dollars. China seriously finds itself in between a rock and a hard place.

reply to post by Mdv2


To think China will always be an economy that heavily relies on exports is folly, to think things cannot change is folly and to think they do not have a plan is folly. Remember that there was a time when the US was as heavily reliant on exports as China is today. Considering how many nations in the past have changed the dynamics of their economy as they made the move to superpower and the powers of old declined I don't think it's too far fetched to think China can do the same.

reply to post by Mdv2


firstly exports are 8-10% of chinese gdp...

TextThey undervalue the Yuan for one good reason: to remain a competitive exporter (to quickly explain: with a low valued Yuan in comparison to the Dollar/Euro, Chinese exports will remain relatively cheap in contrast to when they would let it freely appreciate). Your claim that the Chinese government should make the Yuan an international currency, it is and will anything but an international currency. At least an international currency that will be able to compete with the Yen and Euro. If you disagree, please provide some reasoning why you think so.

But Asia now understands that the increase of money supply decreases the intrinsic value of a currency. That is why China is seeking a possible and rational attempt to decouple Asian currencies from the dollar, as recent news stories report [1]. In practice, China is trying to make its currency convertible and give it a role as a reserve currency. The first experiment is limited to transactions between Hong Kong and the neighboring provinces. It is also proposed that the yuan renminbi be used in 8 neighboring countries, including Russia. With these countries, agreements have already been signed for the settlement of contracts in the Chinese currency. Perhaps it is no coincidence that the news was released on Christmas Day, when Western markets are closed, reducing the impact on the dollar. In addition, the first weeks of January are usually fairly quiet. This means that although for now the trial is limited, China is preparing to establish full convertibility of its currency to all other currencies. Many in China have spoken out directly or indirectly in this regard: for example, Wu Xiaoling, former vice governor of the central bank, and Zhao Xijun, a professor of finance at Renmin University of China. The current governor of China's central bank, Zhou Xiaochuan, in early December in Hong Kong had indicated that if the value of the dollar fluctuated drastically, its use as a settlement currency (for commercial transactions) would cause problems. It is clear that Chinese exporters, behind the scenes, are asking the government for permission to charge in yuan instead of dollars, which are losing value. Other warnings came in the middle of last December: the increase in purchases of U.S. Treasury bonds should not lead to the supposition that the U.S. can borrow its way out of the financial crisis [2]. Finally, on January 1, a well-known Chinese economist, Wu Jinglian, wrote that China must change its development model [3], with reference to the paradigm of economic growth driven by exports. We note, incidentally, that even the pope, who obviously has mainly pastoral responsibilities, has said the world must change its model of development [4] ("Are we are prepared to conduct together an in-depth review of the dominant development model, to correct it in a comprehensive and forward-looking way?" Benedict XVI asked).
www.asianews.it...

China has taken preliminary steps to make yuan a reserve currency

It is clear that Chinese exporters, behind the scenes, are asking the government for permission to charge in yuan instead of dollars

and now least 8 nations will use yuan for trade with china

It has launched the experiment of using the yuan as a reserve currency in relations with 8 countries. Chinese exporters are asking to charge in yuan instead of dollars, because the U.S. currency is losing value.

also China needs to revise its model of development, too much based on eighteenth century mercantilism.
This means that although for now the trial is limited, China is preparing to establish full convertibility of its currency to all other currencies.
If, after a trial period, China makes its currency convertible, the consequence is that importing countries must have reserves of yuan renminbi. To get them, central banks around the world will have to divest themselves of U.S. assets and Treasury bonds.
[edit on 25-1-2009 by sadchild01]

[edit on 25-1-2009 by sadchild01]

I'm surprised you guys haven't figured it out yet. The dollar must collapse in order for the Amero to be introduced.

reply to post by walkinghomer


I keep hearing about the Amero, that it has already been created and ready to be implemented. Does that mean all other currency will be converted into Ameros at whatever price they assign?

I'm sure this is an incredibly stupid question, but what is the end game? So some small group of people will control the currency of the world, does that mean they will control the world? What does that mean, practically speaking?

Well the Amero will be similar to the Euro. Its just a new form of currency for North America. Canada, USA and Mexico will be using this new form of currency.
The American dollar in the past was backed by the amount of gold they had but that has changed and now the money is backed by nothing. Not sure what this new Amero will be backed by.
I believe this is the step into breaking down the world into groups then eventually one world currency and one world order.

The cost of President Obama’s stimulus package could cross the $1 trillion mark when interest costs are figured in, the Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday.

The administration points out that the stimulus would produce a greater gross domestic product, meaning higher tax revenues, partially offsetting the cost.

Source

And the money presses continue creating money out of thin air. 175 billion more or less, who cares these days?


[edit on 28-1-2009 by Mdv2]