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Baroness Tonge: "Israel stands accused of war crimes witnessed by the whole world"

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


The right of the sword! Islam is an overwhelming religion. To the point where it is choking social constraint. The bible is about the "miracles" of Jesus, but they say the Quran is about the power of god. Reading through that book there is this ugly and masculine dominance. It plays on peoples desire for control. Mix that in with the culture and customs of the Arabs. I always think how some children are afraid of the dark so they have a night light or sleep with a stuffed animal. Does this principle apply to Religion. And is Islam that very same nightlight. We live in very interesting times.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Founding]




posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


WHAT? By what leap of logic do you arrive at this conclusion, simple desire to attack me?

This was asked in return to Babloyi's loaded question.

I guess that while you feel free to question the right of Israel to exist, when the proposition is turned around, you are aghast at how brutal the position is.

What right does Islam have to control the Middle East? It seems their only right is by their claim to the right to terrorize others.

Spread by the sword is right, and when that doesn't work, they turn their women into baby making machines to take over an area. Not long ago, my opinion was not nearly so hard, sympathetic even, but the more I learn and experience the sheer hypocrisy, the more I see that conflict is inevitable.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



You question the right of a religion to exist, which is really nonsensical. Religion is actually a belief held by people and I merely stated that people have a right to choice their own religion. You can not force people to abandon a faith inconvenient to your pro-Israeli agenda.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by poet1b
 

It plays on peoples desire for control. Mix that in with the culture and customs of the Arabs. I always think how some children are afraid of the dark so they have a night light or sleep with a stuffed animal. Does this principle apply to Religion. And is Islam that very same nightlight. We live in very interesting times.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Founding]


Sounds like you are applying a personal perspective to something you are unfamiliar with, however, I do think it is an apt description of the zionist movement which centres its entire ideology on imposing itself on a region of the world to which it is alien.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcherSounds like you are applying a personal perspective to something you are unfamiliar with, however, I do think it is an apt description of the zionist movement which centres its entire ideology on imposing itself on a region of the world to which it is alien.


What are you talking about? All I ever read from you is an ad hominem attack. You accuse me of having a personal perspective in my post, then you use the same perspective to describe your opinion on Zionism. I have quoted you for everyone to see right above.

So everyone can see, I will gladly debate with you over the social and religious nature of the Arab peoples. I will be expecting your u2u. If I do not get one stating the time and place for the debate, I will come back on this thread and gladly inform everyone of the troll you really are.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Only the Jews of Israel were able to establish a non-Islamic nation in the region. Israel has suffered perpetual war and terrorism for that accomplishment.


Lebanon is not a Muslim nation. The President is always Christian.

It is a country in which Christians and muslims co-exist as was Palestine. Christians have had their issues with the Muslims but it wasn't until the European Jews entered the region that the Christian population began to deminish. Most of the civil wars in Lebanon were related to the various influx of Palestinian refugees which Israel created.

Lebanon didn't want war from within it's soil and didn't want involvement in someone elses issue but found itself being the only option for Israel-Palestinian battle ground. That is where the civil wars stemmed from.

As for the huge number or muslim countries, the number isn't so huge when you look at the number of christian countries in the world. Who did the exact same thing. But that is a separate issue because it happened over a thousand years ago and not in the last century in a time when civilisation wasn't so civil.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Founding

This is what you wrote;




The right of the sword! Islam is an overwhelming religion. To the point where it is choking social constraint.... Reading through that book there is this ugly and masculine dominance.... It plays on peoples desire for control.


This is all emotive stuff and riddled with inherent prejudices with no factually based analysis.


Mix that in with the culture and customs of the Arabs.


In the context of your preceding comments about religion making this statement qualifies as hate speech and even racist. What is it of Arab culture that offends you? I would argue that is a culture of poetry, art, music, language, family and common decency as you would find in any other. It is inherent to the human condition.


I always think how some children are afraid of the dark so they have a night light or sleep with a stuffed animal. Does this principle apply to Religion. And is Islam that very same nightlight.


This kind of personalisation based on personal experiences anchors your hatred of other people consisting of Arabs, Muslims and of course Palestinians deeply in your conscious mind. Why make such an analogy anything to do with factually vacant assertions?



What are you talking about? All I ever read from you is an ad hominem attack.


I am afraid you are mistaken. I rarely insult individuals but I occasionally have a go at obviously untrue propaganda.




I will be expecting your u2u. If I do not get one stating the time and place for the debate, I will come back on this thread and gladly inform everyone of the troll you really are.


I don't normally entertain threats especially impotent ones, so why should I respond to your ultimatums?

As far as I am concerned you are welcome to make your assertions but you will have to cite references and provide links.

The only reason you call me a troll is because you do not like what I have to say. This comment of yours does ATS a disservice and is abusive.


[edit on 112828p://pm2841 by masonwatcher]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


The debate was not accepted. You did not prove anything. I offered for a moderated debate...so the members of this forum could absolutely judge in their minds who speaks the truth. You turned it down, it is for everyone to see. Right here on this page, exposed as the troll you really are.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


Nope, not at all, you are completely mis-interpreting the post. I question the right of the religion of Islam to control all of the Middle East, not the right of Islam to exist. Same as numerous members such as yourself question the right of a Jewish state to exist in the Middle East.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Obliterated
 



Maybe you need to do more research before you post. The quote you provide is a quote I posted from another website and an article written by someone else. Lebanon is occupied by Syria, which enforces Muslim control over the Christian country.

www.meforum.org...


The Syrians entered Lebanon militarily in 1976 and have not yet left. Their close to 40,000 regular soldiers along with a larger, unspecified number of intelligence operatives allow little argument on the question of Lebanon's status: it is today not just an occupied country but the unique satellite state in the entire world, or (in the lexicon of the cold war), the only remaining captive nation. Like Poland or the Baltic republics until a few years ago, Lebanon is a small country dominated by a larger totalitarian neighbor. Its subjugation far exceeds the scope of any legitimate interests the larger state may have in the smaller one. Borrowing a term from the related lexicon of Russian geopolitics, it is within Syria's "near abroad."

Although it came into existence as a sovereign state due to Christian efforts, Lebanon today is undergoing a steady Islamization that applies to the social, political, and cultural domains. This has also involved massive demographic tampering. With one stroke of the pen, in 1994 some 300,000 Muslims—roughly equivalent to 10 percent of Lebanon's population—were naturalized. Two-thirds of these were Syrians. Islamization has two prongs, the Sunni and the Shi‘i.


Lebanon is another clear example of Muslim intolerance and aggression. We probably should address this other example of hypocrisy more on these boards, and it should get more attention in the news.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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have you noticed that in all cases in the middle east - its the good book and word of jesus christ that is squashed under foot? islam this and judaism that - but the word of the lord and christianity is slowly being stamped out in all the countries , from saudi arabia , to syria to israel - but be Christian is to be shunned.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by poet1b
 


I always think how some children are afraid of the dark so they have a night light or sleep with a stuffed animal. Does this principle apply to Religion. And is Islam that very same nightlight. We live in very interesting times.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Founding]


And what is the little cute stuffed animal? Internet forums?
Who is the child? Westerners?

It is very easy to blame, humiliate a whole religion, or a whole culture or a whole race, ,snt it? You did all of them in your post.
Anyway, this arrogance of some westerners is going slowly out of date.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by deccal
 


Where as my analogy was about religion and the human condition, yours was a an incoherent and unintelligent joke. You want people to take you seriously, then capitalize first letter in your sentences and put a period at the end of the sentences.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Yeah, I noticed that you didn't actually say Jews didn't live in the area, You said they lived there and returned, same thing. This is a typical technique of yours, say something in a round about way, so you can deny it later. It is cheap and sleazy, and fools no one. Like I said, you don't care about the truth.

After the break up of the Ottoman Turkish empire, many nations were created. Just because the Israelis did not have as large of a population doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been given a nation of their own. Jews from all over the world have a right to immigrate to the new Israel, why shouldn't they? Muslims were given too much of the territory they have conquered over the last thousand years in my opinion.

This isn't about Israel's right to exist, and we all know it. The Kurds deserve their own nation, but no one is protesting for their rights. There is also what the Turks did to the Armenians. The Muslim hatred of Israel is beyond reasonable.

Why not give them a nation in Europe, wouldn't it be more fair because that's where they were getting killed for no reason(some might say other wise). Wasn't the Holocaust the soul reason for the existance of Israel? Simpathy, why not in Europe? Would Europeans accept it? Hey why not in America? Or in Russia? Both Europe and America had larger Jewish population than Palestine, so why Palestine. And no they didn't migrate to the new Israel, they migrated before Israel existed and the Zionests were terrorising the British to accomplish it.

If this is not about Israel's right to exist than what is it. The whole conflict is related to Israel's right to exist. It is not about terrorism, it is not about suicide bombings. All of that started as a direct result of Israel's creation, so yes it is about Israel's creation and if it had the right to be created.

Any ways I would like to invite you for a debate, I heard they have an official debate forum where people can debate any issue. They will give us one thread to debate, and other people can view it also. U2U me if you accept so we can choose the topic. A good one could be "Israel's right to exist", or "Hamas, terrorist or freedom fighters". Hope you accept.

Or we could have a debate about Islam since I see you have something against it, you choose the subject when it comes to Islam because I have a huge database of knowledge relating to it, choose any subject, I would't mind being in defencive mode even if it would be unfair for a debate.


[edit on 082828p://28b2 by Ownification]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by masonwatcher
 


The debate was not accepted. You did not prove anything. I offered for a moderated debate...so the members of this forum could absolutely judge in their minds who speaks the truth. You turned it down, it is for everyone to see. Right here on this page, exposed as the troll you really are.

I'll accept your debate if poet doesn't accept mine, I'm just waiting for his U2U, if it doesn't happen than I'll happily accept.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by deccal
 


Where as my analogy was about religion and the human condition, yours was a an incoherent and unintelligent joke. You want people to take you seriously, then capitalize first letter in your sentences and put a period at the end of the sentences.


I sense that you did sense a weakness in your arguments, hence your anger. Now show me where I didn't capitalize first letter and didnt put a period, than I will change it.
Sorry about my english too.
Now could you answer my question? What represents what in your analogy? Or was that an allegory?
Is there only one "human condition"? [probably some eurocentric human condition you mean?]
By the way, I am too far to attach to any religion. But your arguments attack to religion and eastern cultures en total. Why would someone think and argument like it? Why would waste time to defend such a negative idea on internet forums? Army, defense minister, foreign minister are already defending your ideas. Get some rest, enjoy the sun which will rise from the east.





[edit on 9-2-2009 by deccal]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


the palestine mandate was in the 1920`s - whilst the state of israel wasn`t actually born then , the `elite` jews were actively trying to get there hands on that chunk of real estate for many many years



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by poet1b
 



You question the right of a religion to exist, which is really nonsensical. Religion is actually a belief held by people and I merely stated that people have a right to choice their own religion. You can not force people to abandon a faith inconvenient to your pro-Israeli agenda.



no he wasn't



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


If you want to debate the right of the Jewish people to exist in the place that is now Israel, I will be happy to get this going. I will send you a U2U later on when the timing is better for me.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


If you want to debate the right of the Jewish people to exist in the place that is now Israel, I will be happy to get this going. I will send you a U2U later on when the timing is better for me.


i'm sure you do... so are there lots of people wo think the opposite... the issue is that Yin and Yang are a little out of balance here...




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