A400M Problems Range Far Beyond Engines

PARIS – Airbus is facing much more than just contractual and schedule challenges in its A400M military airlifter program, as the aircraft may need massive re-engineering work to achieve its performance targets.

One key area of concern appears to be the A400M being overweight, which would negatively affect the aircraft’s payload and range capabilities. Sources close to the program say the aircraft is significantly heavy in its current development status. The first six units to be used in the flight-test program are 12 tons heavier than planned, those sources say. A weight savings campaign has identified a reduction potential of 7 tons. Early production aircraft will only incorporate reductions of 5 tons at the most, leaving payload below the 30-ton mark.

Some special operational performance goals also are in doubt, according to people familiar with the details. The A400M may not be able to fly “Sarajevo profile” steep approaches because of possible flutter issues with the propellers.

Ares.

Ouch. So it wasn't only FADEC after all...

[edit on 24/1/2009 by C0bzz]

Ha ha... and still it isn't all revealed...

There is more.


(To be honest, I wasn't even aware the weight issue was that serious - I was aware of other issues that are screwing things up)

I know that Airbus in Bristol has let many of its contractors go as the delivery schedule for wing sets has been put back, I think in reality it has been suspended.

It would be interesting to know if the program to developb the C-130 was smooth?

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Ha ha... and still it isn't all revealed...

There is more.


(To be honest, I wasn't even aware the weight issue was that serious - I was aware of other issues that are screwing things up)

Do tell i need to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by kilcoo316


What exactly is the point of coming into a thread and basically saying "I know something you don't but I'm not going to tell you"? That's what you guys have been doing lately. Do you enjoy doing that or what? If you know that there's something else going on, but it can't be found anywhere, why bother saying anything? Do you enjoy holding the fact that you know something we don't over us? It's like a kid going "Nany nany boo boo!" Put it out there already, or don't say anything.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
What exactly is the point of coming into a thread and basically saying "I know something you don't but I'm not going to tell you"?

Ever hear of a thing called company confidentiality?

Why would I want to risk my job by posting up things I shouldn't on a MB?



As for why posting at all, at least now you know there is something else wrong (and I haven't broken any rules).

If you don't want to know that there is something to search for, I'll not bother posting.

But that's just it, there ISN'T anything to search for, because you guys have said that they haven't released what's wrong. They're not going to put it on the internet for us to find if they haven't said what else is wrong. So you're telling us that there's something else wrong, when there's no chance for us to find out what it is.

I'm not saying risk your job by breaking confidentiality by any means. But if you know that there's no way for us to find out about it, why drop hints that are going to have us sitting here waiting to find out when there's no way that we can?

12 tons is a lot of weight. I wonder how much the 7 ton diet is going to cost. EADS has already indicated that they cannot make the plane with any sort of profit and are demanding renegotiation of the contract.

I have to ask are we talking metric tons or Imperial?

either way its a ton (humor ar ar) of weight.

If Sarejevo profiles are in doubt then any high / hot deplyment like say Columbia would also have to be looked at.

Im tired and lazy tonight what the unit cost right now and how much more is EADS wanting? At some point if the cost growth increases too much then the C-17 will start looking like a viable alternative.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Originally posted by Zaphod58
What exactly is the point of coming into a thread and basically saying "I know something you don't but I'm not going to tell you"?

Ever hear of a thing called company confidentiality?

Why would I want to risk my job by posting up things I shouldn't on a MB?



As for why posting at all, at least now you know there is something else wrong (and I haven't broken any rules).

If you don't want to know that there is something to search for, I'll not bother posting.

What you are currently doing can be called 'deliberately damaging shareholder confidence' or 'market manipulation', and those actions can most certainly violate rules.

So either put up or shut up.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
What you are currently doing can be called 'deliberately damaging shareholder confidence' or 'market manipulation', and those actions can most certainly violate rules.

You should know what the confidentiality part of a contract looks like.

'Tis all about specifics.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
So either put up or shut up.

I'll shut up thanks very much.


I'm sure it will become public soon enough.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

You should know what the confidentiality part of a contract looks like.

'Tis all about specifics.

Sod the NDA wording, I'm talking about market protection laws.

Originally posted by RichardPrice

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Originally posted by Zaphod58
What exactly is the point of coming into a thread and basically saying "I know something you don't but I'm not going to tell you"?

Ever hear of a thing called company confidentiality?

Why would I want to risk my job by posting up things I shouldn't on a MB?



As for why posting at all, at least now you know there is something else wrong (and I haven't broken any rules).

If you don't want to know that there is something to search for, I'll not bother posting.

What you are currently doing can be called 'deliberately damaging shareholder confidence' or 'market manipulation', and those actions can most certainly violate rules.

So either put up or shut up.

THE INTERNET.

Where anonymous comments on Conspiracy websites with no details damages shareholder confidence.... hey my youtube vid was in newspapers in India. Maybe if I start making comments up I can bankrupt companies I don't like.

[edit on 26/1/2009 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz


And what happens when one of those anonymous posters is a reporter for a major paper? We've seen ATS cited as a source before.

Originally posted by C0bzz

THE INTERNET.

Where anonymous comments on Conspiracy websites with no details damages shareholder confidence.... hey my youtube vid was in newspapers in India. Maybe if I start making comments up I can bankrupt companies I don't like.

[edit on 26/1/2009 by C0bzz]

It may be stupid, but its certainly true.

Take a look into what happened to Apples shares recently when a rumour about Steve Jobs being dead made headlines in the industry papers - unfounded, but it caused a noticeable mark in Apples shares...

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Sod the NDA wording, I'm talking about market protection laws.

Not part of any contract I've ever seen.

I would also guess they are not part of any you've ever seen for aero engineers either.


Anyway - it'll all come out in the wash.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Sod the NDA wording, I'm talking about market protection laws.

Not part of any contract I've ever seen.

I would also guess they are not part of any you've ever seen for aero engineers either.


Anyway - it'll all come out in the wash.

*sigh* of course laws are not part of the contract, they are part of the legal code...

I very much doubt if any of the shareholders who you would claim market protection over are ignorant of the woes of A400M so there is no way that someone saying "I know something that I won't tell you" is going to cause any problems in the market.

I don't know why you thought "put up or shut up" would work. Clearly there are things that some people know that others don't, you can be happy that kilcoo has even suggested that you don't know the full story.
As for not being able to find the what kilcoo is hinting at, maybe if you did some sleuthing you might be able to find something out.

Otherwise just be happy that there is something left for you to find out and be patient.

Originally posted by CloudySkye
I very much doubt if any of the shareholders who you would claim market protection over are ignorant of the woes of A400M so there is no way that someone saying "I know something that I won't tell you" is going to cause any problems in the market.

I don't know why you thought "put up or shut up" would work. Clearly there are things that some people know that others don't, you can be happy that kilcoo has even suggested that you don't know the full story.
As for not being able to find the what kilcoo is hinting at, maybe if you did some sleuthing you might be able to find something out.

Otherwise just be happy that there is something left for you to find out and be patient.

I've spent enough time on this forum, and around 5 year olds, that I know 'I know something you don't know' is complete and utter immature crap.

As I said, put up or shut up.

www.a400m-countdown.com...

reply to post by RichardPrice


Your opinion clearly shows that you are not in the same employment situation as kilcoo or myself. In large aerospace "I know something you don't know" is pretty commonplace and even in any large organisation. Remeber how President Jimmy Carter was apparently told that he didnt have a need to know about UFO information? It's how people with important information or knowledge keep their highly paid jobs, otherwise if everybody knew what they knew then their job would be worthless. Information, knowledge and ability are what defines a persons salary. with the info and knowledge costing proprtionally more than ability.

You'll never get anywhere with "put up or shut up", its a mark of immature furstration. Everybody has the right to talk and say what they want when they want.