In the event of Civil War......

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by Electro38
reply to post by PhyberDragon

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with editing what you write, I do a lot of editing for spelling mistakes, etc. My point is that it should be done.

But seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic or humorous, I really meant those things I said.

There will not be any civil war, there will not be a catastrophe in 2012. None of this stuff will happen, but it's a great way to sell stuff and to make money from a website. I think it's brilliant, not criticizing at all. If you want to make money, this is a great way to go since there are a lot of angry and paranoid (fearful) people in this world, as evident by this forum, (filled with fearful, paranoid and angry people).

Finally, A person that isnt schizophrenic. Just kidding other posters, seriously though, I couldnt agree more with what you said in your post. Actually 99% of what is predicted in threads on this site never happens. So whatever is stated on this site you can count on the exact opposite to happen. Bush to declare martial law. Didnt happen. Bush to round up citizens and put them in fema death camps. Nope. Any webbot prediction that was predicted on this site including but not limited to the major earthquake in the midwest. Again, nothing. The only prediction that has come to fruitation is the state of the economy. And that was far from a hard prediction to make. Although most experts knew what was coming. So I am about as worried about a civil war breaking out as I am Blossom Goodchild spaceship appearing.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by tide88]

Originally posted by PhyberDragon


Originally posted by tide88
Really, you hear it everywhere. The only place I ever hear anything like that is on this website. Never before in the real world, as opposed to the internet world, have I even heard civil war mentioned. That is unless I am watching the history channel or a movie that takes place in the civil war era.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by tide88]



You need to get out more.


I get out plenty. Maybe you should change the people you are hanging around with. A civil war.

So much for bed.
OK First off I am not the other posters on this site. Second off, I am my own poster. Third off, I never proposed or said there would be any type of Armed overthrow of this Country. What I have said is that the odds are vastly increasing of a war between the Citizen's of this Country with one another. And if you look at all the debates on ATS, I can easily see one neighbor shooting another in the face over who's into whose Kool Aid.

As to the people I associate with, they would be Retired and Active: Politicians and their Interns, Corporate and Business Owners and their Executives and Employees, Military Officers and Enlisted Personnel, and Many various Service and Product related Industry Professionals, Law enforcement Agencies of many various types from Police to Sheriffs Officers and Detectives, through to DEA, FBI, IRS, and other many various alphabet agencies, as well as InterNational Agencies such as Scotland yard, and many Blue Collar and White Collar Proffessionals and Laborers, to Gangs, Mobs, Crimnal Syndicates, etc. Heads, Leaders, and Members. Plus neighbors friends and family and other contacts in my network, such as Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, State and Federal Secretaries of the various Cabinets and Administrations. I've travelled every State in the US but 5 and over 6 Countries, and now, I just chill out here down South and bounce to the heartland region from time to time. I get out plenty, and I have talked with plenty of people in plenty of places high and low, and they are all well aware of the tension that some seem to think is the product of God can only imagine what kind of mind.

Whether a thing comes to pass does not diminish the potential of it's signs. That you don't see them, may just mean you cannot see the forest despite that tree you're clinging too. Now, I can take their scenarios and build on them and have done so, but, they are not scenario's of my creation.
My grandparents believed the world was the way they believed it to be once, too. Then, they got older and realized they had chosen to live in a dream. A pleasant one, but, a dream, nonetheless. Would Americans revolt? I don't know, but, I can't say that no they can't, because, they will if they want-- and maybe even, for no reason at all. Should they revolt, I like my grandparents dream, so, dreamily, I'd have to say no, there's nothing we can't, as a people, over come. Non dreamily, hey, if they do, call me, I got a list of things to add to that list of things to change. Who's side would I join? Well, my Government's of course. Unless, it cease's to allow for Peaceful and Serious ReDress of her Citizen's very real Greivances.

to say that because some are one way, so must they all be, well, I hope your attitude isn't adopted by the powers that be. they'd be in very real danger of being blindsided, as would you all who think like that, because, you are surrounded by more criminals in American's just trying to get by and not get high and do the good thing faces than you can believe or imagine.

Not a sole one of, save a small, mind you small, handful of those I associate with at all levels of our Government and those of the World, from the Senators on down to Joe the Bum on the street, are not corrupt in one form or another.
So, who would you have me associate with, I bet, it wouldn't take me long to weed out the corrupt one's in your network if we'd ever met and I stuck around a couple of six month's where you are, too. And, I probably already know several from your State anyways.

People assume they know more than they do. But, don't assume you know me as well as you'd like to believe. Even those closest to me, barely know the true me.
And, I wouldn't be so quick to judge your fellow man, much less, your fellow ATSer's, either.

Thomas Paine was once as they are now.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Heres a question to some of the members here...

Do you want a civil war to happen or do you want to go beyond just blaming government and start looking for solutions among the populous?

A better question might be, how do we resolve these issues which lead to so much tension, and thereby, relieve the mounting pressure which could incite a blood bath?

reply to post by LeTan


Me also. I would stand with the People of the land against all who seek to oppress their freedom. With my last breath I will defend the Constitution I took an oath to defend and protect. People I talk to are talking about Civil War too. I think if Obama does what I think he will do, war can be avoided. Another drop on the economy though, and I think some States will secede, then others will quickly follow. I would rather see this happen than war...enough American blood has been split over bullsh*t wars.

reply to post by The Bald Champion
"It benefits a company to dump their waste in a nearby river because it is cheap and more profitable... This cuts the bottom line and creates more productivity, jobs and money.

However it does not benefit the citizens who have their water polluted by this action.

It ends up costing the citizens in money and well being due to disease."

========================================

This brings up one of the biggest problems in the USA.

Corporations have more rights than citizens.

Corporations are used to shield evil ppl from justice.

Corporate law needs to be either massively re-written or done
away with altogether.

If such a thing of power could be used without corruption that
would be one thing, but things like Shell has done to ppl like
Ken Saro-Wiwa in Nigeria, it is just time for a major overhaul.

Shell pressured Nigerian government to kill 9 environmental protestors

Greed cannot come before the health of the ppl, the animals, the
water, the soil, and the planet.

I am not a nutter wanting to ban logging, etc etc.

But destroying or poisoning the land blatantly has to stop.

In other words if you create a super fund site, you get to clean it up.

Period !

Originally posted by PhyberDragon

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Heres a question to some of the members here...

Do you want a civil war to happen or do you want to go beyond just blaming government and start looking for solutions among the populous?

A better question might be, how do we resolve these issues which lead to so much tension, and thereby, relieve the mounting pressure which could incite a blood bath?

Ppl have tried to deal with the DC crowd for many years now.

I think they have grown weary of the lies, the corruption, and
being ignored.

Ppl called in massively on the bailout to stop it, and most of their
so called congress critters basically ignored them and decided to
NOT represent the ppl that elected them.

The way I have heard it described is the box system.

Ballot box, Jury box, Ammo box.

The first two are not getting it done in their opinion.

I do not advocate this method, but some ppl are talking about groups
that are forming that have that kinda idea in mind.

I expect to see them rounded up here sometime soon, and basically
called domestic terrorists.

The fact they had the cojones to go before the US senate and tell
them that the only things standing between armed conflict, and
the continued horrible legislation, is time.

Ohio Unorganized miltia speaks to US senate about coming 2nd civil war

Watch it for yourself coutesy of CSPAN.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Originally posted by PhyberDragon

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by PhoenixDemon

 

But we don't have access to mil-grade explosives as readily as they do in Afghanistan or Iraq. all we would have is homemade stuff that is not mil-grade. unless someone raids a military base successfully. Which i doubt.

You are clearly unaware of how much military arms and munitions, vehicles and weaponary alike really exist in America. Further you must be unaware of all the high tech and low tech arms and munitions capable designers and makers are really out there. homemade weapons grade C4 only requires a few local ingredients, like bleach and clay or even a weak flour based composition, a hot plate and a car battery tester, some Pyrex and wallah! You have the salt to knead into the clay, wire it to a phone, battery, whatever. Some PVC, Radio Shack Solenoid relays, etc. You can havea mine or a makeshift rocket or grenade propelled launcher, with easy to manufacture payloads. Go raid a meth lab or a pot farm sometime. Ex Military aren't the only ones who can cook or brew up some quick, cheap, and effective perimeter defenses, booby traps, and all around defenses. Check out an organized gang or mob or crime syndicate sometime, find out how well stock piled they really are, and see if they aren't deadly proficient too. How about all those rednecks, patriots, hill billies, hicks, city slickers, and the like. Plus all those Military and Ex- Military. And don't think all those hacker's, cracker's, and "geeks" won't have a contribution either.
Folks really should set down that hallucinogenic mead they call Kool Aid, open their eyes to the real world and get out more

Phyberdragon, you have a very condescending tone that I find a bit disrespectful. Maybe I'm just taking it wrong. But, I am more aware of what out there than most. I have 15 years in California law enforcement, I've been an elected city official and I currently work in the high end security arena. My point was more to show that there really isn't a need for military grade explosives. Further, for the record, I don't advocate any violence. I do however think our current government is broken beyond repair. I do not feel any election will cure the sickness in government now.

If Americans had not sat so idly by and let power and arms become so concentrated in federal government, rather than the states- as the constitution so directed- maybe we wouldn't be in this mess right now. If the states had roughly even military power, there wouldn't be a bunch of dogs at the top abusing all of it combined at once.

There are some days this infuriates me so much I could scream. And I do.

Because now what we have is a constitution saying on one hand that we the people have the right to abolish government if government no longer represents the interests of the people, but on the other hand we have a military and police force so powerful that Americans would not even dare.

Just watch a few of those C-130 videos in Iraq. You want to be a bad ass? And end up in little pieces all over the street like so many "insurgent" Iraqis trying to protect their country from invaders? Americans are not stupid. And they are not "insurgents" for legitimately, no no, DAMN legitimately questioning wtf is going on here, AT THIS POINT. So much deception. So much manufacturing of evidence. So much corruption. And so much evil self justification. Making money isn't wrong, but the more you make the more you had better beware of the temptation for excessive, blinding greed. Well, everyone forgot that.

They've got us under the constant threat of death if anyone makes a move. We know AT&T and many other telecoms betrayed us and allowed the NSA to monitor every single phone call in America and beyond. Software in place to flag by key word. Big Brother. For real. *SLAP* Wake up people, FOR REAL.

What, you going to make a call now? To who? Before you even got out the door you would be jailed for conspiracy against the government. Or maybe they'll just kill you on site for nothing when you go to raise your hands in surrender.

Even peaceful activist groups are being watched, infiltrated, and stopped. They are regulating weapons and ammo as we speak to the point that the right to bear arms means nothing. What's a pea shooter going to do against a fricken C-130 miles away you can't even see? "Oh, they can't use that against me, that's military." Yeah right. Are you not aware of how they changed that too so that military can be used against CIVIL INSURRECTION?

Don't you think the framers thought of that? They knew that if civil insurrection got to the point where military instead of police were needed to stop it, that chances are the insurrection would have merit. Problems would be so deep and corruption so pervasive at that point to incite such insurrection that in order to maintain self integrity in principle laws had to provide for that possibility. And so it was prohibited.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Act.

In my own opinion:

Any non-military or non-police thinking of armed revolt are dreaming. It's just not going to happen. Get over it. You'd be much better off making friends with police and military and spending your time informing them when you can. SHOW them what the government has done, and help them to see who the real usurpers of the constitution are.

This is going to take military and police themselves coming to grips with the situation to see that the oaths they took to defend and protect apply to themselves and their families too. Those that want the constitution back the way it is supposed to be, with laws directly supporting it instead of circumventing it, are going to need to make a choice one day.


I just wish I could make all evil banned from this planet for good.

[edit on Sun Jan 25th 2009 by TrueAmerican]

Originally posted by PaulKCA
reply to post by PhoenixDemon

 

While living in a reality that mirrors what one puts out, and believing that peace can come through aggression is.....naive.

You should make sure they folks that point their guns at you understand that. Let us know how that works out for ya.

nenothtu out

This conversation/thread of a full on violent civil war is stupid on so many levels at this moment in time, the mere mention of it titters on madness.

If you want to cause a “civil” war, if you want to change this country, if you want something to tell everyone who mentions it... tell them to get involved. Politicians are nothing special, nothing. They are just as scared, ill informed, superstitious, and unknowing of the future as each of us. The only thing they have on there side is they aren't afraid to stand up and be counted. While the rest of you are. They aren't afraid to pick a fight or fight for power and influence, while the rest of you are. They aren't afraid of standing up and telling people what they want to hear, and they know people don't really mean what they say, while the rest of you go on pretending.

This thread is proof of that. Just about everyone on here is talking about how they're going to stand up, I call BS! If you really felt as strongly as you say, you would stand up tomorrow and fight for what you believe in, not with guns or this fake as hell ho-hum nonsense, create this civil war with your character... Sadly everyone of you within this thread lacks that courage, lacks that conviction and more importantly, you people are flat ass lazy. Picking up a gun and running around trying to kill people is easy, to stand up and fight for what you believe in without using violence is hard, and that explains almost all the posts I have read within this thread, it is nothing but easily written BS nonsense.

If you think what I just said is BS, then stand up and fight for change with your mind and fight back starting tomorrow, tell all your friends to do the same. But sadly most of you cowards will dismiss what I just said here and pretend to be someone you most assuredly are not. It is so easy with the protection of a monitor, or within the security of your friends, to talk tough, but when push comes to shove you cowards will sit down and shut up just like you have always done.

I know, I know... you're gonna do this and your gonna do that... but until you get involved and actually fight for your convections, I will continue to throw the BS flag because the proof is on the front page every damn day. I call all those who are politicians my leaders, whether I agree with them or not, because they have the courage to fight, while I call all who complain about this and that is wrong with this country, yet continue to do nothing but bitch and moan... I call each of you cowards with words!

I doubt any of you have the courage to admit what is written here is the absolute truth, so I will leave knowing the truth is already sitting within you!

--Charles Marcello

PS.
Don't hate the player hate the game!



[edit on 25-1-2009 by littlebunny]

As I have posted earlier, follow the paper trail. Look to see how the laws are being stacked against the citizens of the union. Watch the videos of the national guard and private mercanaries under the cover of Blackwater abusing with disregard the rights of every individual during Katrina. How they disarmed the people who were protecting their property when their was complete chaos in the city. There is a awakening running through country, everyday you see more and more civil liberties being abused, law enforcement abusing the ones they are sworn to protect. Unnecessary escalation of non-lethal and deadly force being used. Over the last 50 years this country has dealt with the most shameful of American politics, corruption, ideologies, power. But the last 12 we have idly watched the most agressive dismantling of the basic liberties imaginable, under the guise of terrorism, national security and corporate elitism. And now we all are at the table taking a big bite out of the *&^% sandwich. Why, I ask. Because we forgot what was on the menu. Yes 90% of us do whine and complain about the problems of political corruption and misrepresentation. Because we have become such a consumer based economy the mentality of "as long as I have my ____" things will be okay. Well littlebunny, there are the 10% that are involved, who watch, listen and voice our opinions to our elected representatives. I only wish that the numbers were reversed and perhaps we would be in a different state of affairs. Call, write, email your representatives in Congress. Our voices our the most powerful weapon we have against the government we elected. But dont be niave to think that once the voices have fallen on deaf ears that crack of rifles wont soon follow. Miltias are growing at a rapid rate, gun sales have risin 300 percent in a period of six months. Revolution, civil war, insurrection, what have you, if the current situation does not Change the possibilities are more imaginable than ever thought. Look at the world around us, governments are begining to fall. Icelands' economy has collapsed the people protest and riot daily. Britian is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, Mexico is frecasted to collapse by the end of 09', China, Russia, EU, Saudia Arbia, Kuwait the list goes on. If we fail so does the world. Get involved!

Find who represents you and let them hear you.
[url=http://congressmerge.com]

Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. -Thomas Jefferson

Talk only.Most of the people will go back to normal routines like watch football and drink a beer

Interesting thread with just as many interesting thoughts.

Personally, I feel that after about a year or so of submitting to the reality of Obama's little civilian brown shirt service corps, people will begin to wise up in small groups throughout the country. I foresee that a "take this job and shove it" mentality will start to gain a strong footing and will possibly escalate from there. "Breaking rocks in the hot sun" will get old real quick for our younger generations who don't like hard work.

Many, like me, will simply question the disassembly of the Constitution and will respond to a nationwide call to action that is fully supported by the military and law enforcement in a mutiny like event. I think the nation will have to reach an enough is enough position and come to the boiling point.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Whaaa, so what are you saying? That we should just sit here and eat the crap sandwiches we are fed?

I dont think that will happen. I think everyone has a limit.

As for the military goes, Im not sure how I feel about that. There are too many military men who would be more than willing to stand on the other side. We are not robots.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by mrsdudara]

No don't just sit here and eat the crap sandwiches.
Live your life to the best ability, enjoy the time you have left, and stand up for what you care about.

Everyone does have a limit and it will be crossed I think sooner, rather than later.

But I really think Whaaa raised an amazing point.

Originally posted by Whaaa
First what would precipitate a civil war. The country is divided but the military would crush any uprising even before they could mobilize. Do you think they don't know who the trouble makers might be?

EXACTLY!!! They have their black/red/blue list already, and might handle the problem accordingly.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
As for the military goes, Im not sure how I feel about that. There are too many military men who would be more than willing to stand on the other side. We are not robots.

I hope that you are correct. I do think we have to many TRUE American soldiers who know right from wrong, and do love this country/its people.

BUT and i mean a BIGGGGG BUTTTTT.....

Take a look at the Stanford Prison Experiment....
Then check out a book called The Lucifer Effect by Philip Zimbardo (everyone can be good and EVIL)
Then remember back to Guantanamo.... those were "great" soldiers, that took some things just a little to far....

All I'm saying is, People (ANYONE) especially those easily influenced or in a crowd, can be EVIL and do terrible terrible things.

Let's hope the GOOD in humanity will show when we need it most, rather then the BAD that just might make us our own demise.

Alsooooooo.
One more thing I wanted to mention.
Our own military doesn't scare me as much as Blackwater and such private armies....

That is something that I think has the potential to be VERY dangerous.

Plus we now have our OWN military standing on our OWN soil??? (Since Oct. 2008)
(which shouldn't be allowed, Posse Comitatus)
Just in case that something happens, or the people start to want a little Coup d'etat.
Again for our OWN safety.....


[edit on 25-1-2009 by Allegory of Illumination]

Originally posted by cal7man
reply to post by whaaa

 

I dont think we would make it 10 feet across the border, the citizens(in the USA) out number the military by a whopping 300 million plus , of which only a handful own only .22 cal. rifles, most own handguns larger than a .38 and significantly sized hunting rifles and shotguns as well. And don't forget the military is not comprised of single family-less people who's only allegiance is strictly military. cut the needs of some 300 million people and see how well the other 1.2 % controls them(thats a generous figure IMA), folks are on edge, a civil war may be just over the horizon, I HOPE NOT for the sake of my 9yr. old daughter and 2 yr. old son, how can i defend them against the numbers of desperate looters and criminals and just those trying to survive with having only a .40 cal and a 12 gauge shotgun.

[edit on 1/24/2009 by cal7man]

[edit on 1/24/2009 by cal7man]

I was reading a counter sniper manual for research for a piece of fiction I am penning. I also know a thing or two about weapons, a .22 is a useful weapon and an effective counter sniper rifle. You can make a suppressor with a water bottle.

reply to post by littlebunny


littlebunny, are you kidding us? Politicians are the problem in all of this. Our politicians have formed an oligarchy over the years. They are now so disconnected from most of us that they couldn't represent us if they tried... The only thing they seem to stick up and fight for is higher salaries for themselves while the rest of us face cutbacks and layoffs. How you could ever see our politicians as an altruistic bunch is beyond me.



[edit on 25-1-2009 by PhoenixDemon]

[edit on 25-1-2009 by PhoenixDemon]

I hate this talk of 'Civil War', it's a horrific thought. Yes, some here and other places on the web romanticize the idea of such a war and it is sad. Revolution has merit but I don't think people fully understand the consequences. Imagine, 3,4,5 million dead, entire cities laid to waste, fracturing of the US, and small flare ups for decades.

Of course, we can revolt without violence. How? We simply fire the bums. Give Obama 6 months, if he's not doing the job. We the People, fire him and Congress. We don't have to wait for the elections, we give them a pink slip!

All this talk of war is done by armchair heroes that fancy themselves modern day Paine's, Washington's, and Franklin's. However, mixed amongst those people are potential Stalin's, Hitler's, and Napoleon's.

Don't fool yourselves, war isn't a game. It's not GTA or Ghost Recon. That being said, I am not advocating total passivity either, sometimes a fight is the only way to achieve progress. But let's hope it doesn't come to that.

War fosters the illusion of heroism while balancing the reality of despotism.

reply to post by traderjack


traderjack, I'm not flaming you but can you be more specific about who you feel on this board is glamorizing or fantasizing about a revolution/war? I think the majority of people on here are not doing that at all.

And while I agree that we can revolt, in a manner of speaking, without violence I don't see where the consitution gives us the right to "fire" our politicians as you present it. Are you referring to empeachment?

At any rate all of the people who keep belittling or speaking so condescendingly to the people trying to discuss what a revolution would be like; ease up. This is the right place to discuss it, opinions from all sides of the argument are and should be welcomed.

I can see it all now.....

A bunch of middle aged paunchy, balding men dressed in camo with their .38s and 30-30s marching up to their local court house chanting something like "were mad as hell and were not gonna take it anymore"
as the cops take your pictures, enter it into their data base and call your boss. "Sorry Carl, we're gonna have to let you go"

Actually we live in an corpratacracy not an oligarchy. If you want to actually change anything attack the entities that pull the political strings.

and who might that be???

you have no idea who you are dealing with and the actual power they possess. Think of David Koresh scenarios all over the place.

Do you actually think that citizen militias aren't infiltrated by "three letter groups" and most of the members would rat out the others when the going got really rough.

I think even talking about open rebellion is opening up a very messy can of worms.

I think for every "survivalist, militia" type, there is a counterpart that worships authority and would like nothing better than to blow malcontents away.





[edit on 25-1-2009 by whaaa]

reply to post by mrsdudara


Personaly there are several factors for me that would make me say "Game on" and take to fighting back with physical violence. First is guns... I decided a long time ago that anyone who attempts to take my guns is going to get them bullets first, one at a time... and I am not a violent person, and dont want it to come to that. I have fought in a war before and dont want to do so again. But there is a point where you have to stand up for yourself and defend your country. If there is a proposal for a world bank, or a global fed, then even if it costs me my life, I will attempt to kill anyone behind it, even if I am the only one... Then beyond that there comes a point in peoples life where you have to wheigh personal danger, against personal circumstances.... I think that people who have nothing to loose, like those with Cancer or Aids, who have already lived a good life, have a moral obligation to try and make the world a better place on there way out... and If I am ever diagnosed with something like that, then I think taking out a few CEO's of corporations that are working to bring about an end to our freadom and way of life is about the most noble thing a person could do.