In the event of Civil War......

Originally posted by PhyberDragon

Originally posted by tide88
Really, you hear it everywhere. The only place I ever hear anything like that is on this website. Never before in the real world, as opposed to the internet world, have I even heard civil war mentioned. That is unless I am watching the history channel or a movie that takes place in the civil war era.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by tide88]

You need to get out more.

I get out plenty. Maybe you should change the people you are hanging around with. A civil war.

here is a interesting bit of reading. I found this a few months ago while surfing mindlessly. Believable? perhaps, but as each day passes and new events unfold it is becoing more and more interesting being that it was written nearly ten years ago by a seemingly unknowing forum poster. Interesting reading nonetheless. Check out Johntitor.com

reply to post by Twilly


What are you talking about? Your enemy is not Twiddly De and Twiddly Dumb...it is a Zionist banking cartel that has instilled a system of divisive politics in this country, intended on keeping the heat off itself. The bankers (robber barons) have destroyed everything American. They perpetrate war for profit...among other treasonous mischief. Do some research on ATS here my friend and you will find alot of what you think you know just isn't true.

Ignorance is bliss until it starts a civil war. That's what they want -- order out of chaos via problem--reaction--solution! What they don't want is a revolution!

We need to burn the rats out of the nest.

Our constitution will work for California as well as Kentucky. We just need to get back to it...and then instill a way to keep greed from getting its slimy hands all over it!

Peace

Originally posted by Electro38
reply to post by PhyberDragon

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with editing what you write, I do a lot of editing for spelling mistakes, etc. My point is that it should be done.

But seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic or humorous, I really meant those things I said.

There will not be any civil war, there will not be a catastrophe in 2012. None of this stuff will happen, but it's a great way to sell stuff and to make money from a website. I think it's brilliant, not criticizing at all. If you want to make money, this is a great way to go since there are a lot of angry and paranoid (fearful) people in this world, as evident by this forum, (filled with fearful, paranoid and angry people).

Finally, A person that isnt schizophrenic. Just kidding other posters, seriously though, I couldnt agree more with what you said in your post. Actually 99% of what is predicted in threads on this site never happens. So whatever is stated on this site you can count on the exact opposite to happen. Bush to declare martial law. Didnt happen. Bush to round up citizens and put them in fema death camps. Nope. Any webbot prediction that was predicted on this site including but not limited to the major earthquake in the midwest. Again, nothing. The only prediction that has come to fruitation is the state of the economy. And that was far from a hard prediction to make. Although most experts knew what was coming. So I am about as worried about a civil war breaking out as I am Blossom Goodchild spaceship appearing.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by tide88]

Honestly, I think that before the government lets our differences grow to civil war proportions they would probably create a North American Union.. People would also be more willing to back the formaton of an NAU that they see as a way out of harsh economic times.. If that were to ever happen, we would be the most powerful country on the planet. When other economies collapse because of the same economic troubles and people start dying off from starvation, at that point it would seem much more likely for world governments to join forces and follow the example of the NAU in creating a more stable economic/food/energy situation. How I see it, we would basically have 4 or 5 major countries in the world... And perhaps after that just 1.... (A "One World Government").

Energy wars are the future until world leaders figure out that alternative energy must have some form of political and economic funding and support to compete effectively in the world energy market.. As long as there is no foothold (Sort of like how it is now in the U.S.) there will be no alternative energy movement and people will continue to rely on fossil fuels for transportation and survival in the harsh winters (at least they're harsh here in Alaska). If people can't see an effective return on an investment in alternative energy technology for their own personal use, how would we ever remove our reliance on fossil fuels? The technology needs to catch up.. Right now it just seems too expensive for people to invest in such technology. Therefore, the government must play a role in initiating some form of alternative energy movement in the U.S.. The problem is obviously the economy (even though alternative energy would technically save us money).

The bigger question I have is whether or not we can turn alternative energy into the next big economy boom.. It is going to take a little while, obviously. But it will be interesting to see if the economy can last that long.. It obviously would require massive public and private investment and the return would not be immediate. If we can get over that hump though I think we would be in the clear for the foreseeable future.. I think it would also spark all kinds of new technologies since there would be huge amounts of money going to science and technology/ R&D.

-ChriS

reply to post by TheDarkNight


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
-Thomas Jefferson

The only prediction that has come to fruitation is the state of the economy. And that was far from a hard prediction to make. Although most experts knew what was coming. So I am about as worried about a civil war breaking out as I am Blossom Goodchild spaceship appearing.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by tide88]

Yeah, those guys who were writing about the economy a few months ago were great, they really did do some predicting... freaking ATS economists! Who would have thought.

The "Blossom Goodchild spaceship" would have been interesting. Now there's a fun, exciting scenario, a very positive name for a spaceship and it wasn't exclusive to America.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Electro38]

When you have to resort to violence, you have failed miserably in communication and diplomacy. Our country is founded on freedom for all. Currently it appears we have that condition, so there is no reason for any civil war. If you want a change, vote for it. As a veteran, I prefer ballots to bullets. I have never ever heard of anyone advocating civil war in America, not even as a joke. Like other posts, the only place I see that is on this ATS site. What gives with you guys? Just trying to get points?

Personally, I think there are some things that should happen BEFORE any sort of a civil war.

First: What is going to happen afterwords-There has to be a plan or chaos will rule the land.

Second: Who will lead the nation afterwords, if we don't have someone already picked out, again, chaos will rule the land.

Third: What specifically are we going to accomplish, how are we going to accomplish it, and when is each specific item going to be accomplished.

Fourth: What measures are we going to take to ensure that we are not in this position again?

Fifth: We are going to need a command structure to assume the duties of government IMMEDIATELY afterwords, so we will need to have people pre-selected to take over these tasks that have some sort of experience or knowledge in the specific area.

Sixth: What kind of foreign aid can we rely upon or what kind of foreign resistance should we expect?

Seventh: How will we fund our new government, and what programs do we keep/get rid of, and how will we control our military which at that point will basically be ronin and may very well capitalize upon our lack of structure.

It would be of the utmost importance to have a detailed plan, if not, the country will be in turmoil and it will be like some of the former Russian countries that are ruled by different factions and warlords. We do not want this here. We need a cohesive, stable, and fair government to be incorporated immediately in order to avoid full blown chaos and internal war, that may last for decades.

This is not fighting your neighborhood kids here, there are over 300 million people here that need stability, this could get WAY out of control very, very quickly if there is not a sound plan in place first.

We need to anticipate every possible outcome for every scenario and have contingency plans for every possible outcome. If this is done right it could be a nice smooth transition, if done wrong, it could lead to a lifetime of war, hardships, and misery.

So before you start worrying about who is standing behind who, you may want to consider all of the options, make plans, contingency plans, and contingency plans for those plans. Leave no stone unturned, otherwise, what we get will be FAR worse than what we have now.

And as for left/ right, liberal/conservative, democrat/republican/Constitutionalist/Socialist/Communist/Green/Liberal/American/Independant and any other political organizational label or party; I have not ever, I will not now, I will not ever study, learn, or give a rat's rear end about this body of knowledge. I have researched many a things on many vast subjects, but, this body of knowledge is in my opinion the most assinine and stupidest of things one could ever learn, hope to learn, or, should ever have the desire to learn. I look at the entire issue and decide on what seems right and pick what seems the most logical of those options. I do not decide from which field or line of thought it comes from or from what ideaology it originates or to which ideaology it belongs or to which ideaology it will wind up or to which ideaology I would have it be. These ideaological arguments are the most riduculous and needless things we could have ever devised. To associate with like minded people through candid and/ or vague ideaological assessments shows just how easily manipulated people really are. If you Abolished such ideaologies, people would be left realizing that no two people are alike and while supporting one cause of the day or the other, there are parts or all of those causes or others they would not support, and if you try to lump sum your entire views on an issue or a narrow or broad range of them with those views of another, assuming you even knew the full pros, cons, and details of an issue (as most are classified and/ or people are to biased to allow views from ideaologies they disagree with or can't stand Ie: Die hard racist black or white would never listen to the opposing die hard racist black or white; die hard Christian Zealot would never listen to the "blasphemies" or "heresies" of a die hard pagan or satanic cultist or vice versa, etc. much less would they give serious open minded consideration to such views if they did).

Figure out how to realistically address that and Unity is on it's way. Otherwise, smoke another one and enjoy your pipe dream.

And as for those who would only act violently in defense of themselves or their family, that only applies to obvious circumstances. If a Government agent or Official, or a Non one guised as one, came and kicked in or just knocked at your door, you would comply. Nevermind that you may discover, all too late, that you should not have, because, the art of deception is just that, deceptive. Guilty until proven otherwise, would've been the wiser course, but, since you'd rather the reverse be applied to you, as it should be, you'd never really know until the moment was upon you which is which, would you?
Give up your guns, and those with them, legally or not, authorized or not, might don a uniform and say hello. Nice place you have here, lovely family. Is this your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/friend/family member/etc.... Boy, they should be in pornography, I know a great snuff film director. you sir, you'd make an excellent laborer, I have some contract positions to fill. Is that your child(ren)? Wow, they sure look adoptable. But, those would just be their thoughts, all you'd ever hear from them is," We have a warrant for your arrest, would you please come with us." or "O! You don't have a warrant you say, well, I can't reveal the details of it, that's classified as it is an ongoing investigation. You can call whomever you wish and straighten it all out at the station, now come with us, or we'll add resisting arrest." or "C'mon, now, we can do this the easy way, or, we can do this the hard way."

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

reply to post by Jim Scott


Jim, I salute your service. And I agree ballots are preferred over bullets. But, what happens when you have election after election that results in no change or a worsening of conditions, the removal (or at least the setting up and preparing for the removal) of our rights? At some point something has got to give. I would also agree that at current time we do have a very free society, arguable the free'est on earth. But that doesn't mean we have to sit back on our laurels and watch it all slip away. I'm sure these same discussions happened in the late 1700's too...

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
Personally, I think there are some things that should happen BEFORE any sort of a civil war.

First: What is going to happen afterwords-There has to be a plan or chaos will rule the land.

Second: Who will lead the nation afterwords, if we don't have someone already picked out, again, chaos will rule the land.

I agree, and would assert this is a prime reason for the establishment of a "third" political party. Yes I know there are many more than that now. My point is that we need a core of the movement to legitamize the movement and to provide the management for lack of better terms if our conventional government is removed, quits, leaves etc.


Third: What specifically are we going to accomplish, how are we going to accomplish it, and when is each specific item going to be accomplished.

Fourth: What measures are we going to take to ensure that we are not in this position again?

Give more freedom to the people. Ensure the tenets of our original constitution are upheld and make what ever government comes out of all of this much more transparent. The only secrets in government should be military and that's a debate all to its own.

Fifth: We are going to need a command structure to assume the duties of government IMMEDIATELY afterwords, so we will need to have people pre-selected to take over these tasks that have some sort of experience or knowledge in the specific area.

See my answer to the second question...


Sixth: What kind of foreign aid can we rely upon or what kind of foreign resistance should we expect?

Just because we are under "new management" doesn't mean we won't be open for business...Hell we could have a grand re-opening of sorts.

Seventh: How will we fund our new government, and what programs do we keep/get rid of, and how will we control our military which at that point will basically be ronin and may very well capitalize upon our lack of structure.

While under the circumstances of a revolution resulting in the removal of elected leadership currenlty in office all of the people that actually do the work (the line level staff composed greatly of you and I) will still be there. Government will be formed under the constitution and problems will have to be addresed one at a time. We will all need to pay a fair tax to fund the operation.

It would be of the utmost importance to have a detailed plan, if not, the country will be in turmoil and it will be like some of the former Russian countries that are ruled by different factions and warlords. We do not want this here. We need a cohesive, stable, and fair government to be incorporated immediately in order to avoid full blown chaos and internal war, that may last for decades.

The fragmentation of the U.S. into regional governments in the wake of a revolution would be a potential issue. But, I don't think Russia, China or any other foreign government would want to step into the hornets nest. The are more likely to attack us while we are still following a government, but the minute they see the populace of the U.S taking up arms they will not want to step into the hornets nest.

This is not fighting your neighborhood kids here, there are over 300 million people here that need stability, this could get WAY out of control very, very quickly if there is not a sound plan in place first.

We need to anticipate every possible outcome for every scenario and have contingency plans for every possible outcome. If this is done right it could be a nice smooth transition, if done wrong, it could lead to a lifetime of war, hardships, and misery.

So before you start worrying about who is standing behind who, you may want to consider all of the options, make plans, contingency plans, and contingency plans for those plans. Leave no stone unturned, otherwise, what we get will be FAR worse than what we have now.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
IN a recent interview, Steve Quayle says that his inside sources say that in the event of a mass uprising in a city, "they" (meaning the military) are just going to neutron bomb the entire city.

Maybe, they are told they are doing something else to someone else, and having only what their computers tell them is going on, they don't know any different, until they walk out of their bunker's and say we do what to whom, and start bawling.

It could happen, people and their computers have not only desensitized the world, made it less physically social, but made it so mass casualties can occur at the press of a button, before you see or even realize what you've done.
Oh and what if they do it and the news is stifled, and they never go to that city and no noone from that city, and never learn about it from gossip, and die never knowing what they'd done.

reply to post by PhyberDragon



I'm curious what the heck Steve was thinking when he made that quote. He's pretty entertaining normally. I think it is unlikely that any nuclear weapons will ever be used by Americans on Americans.

For one thing, they have conventional weapons that could take care of most uprisings with a lot less reprecussions.

Originally posted by Dbriefed
I would support something less destructive and more productive than a Civil War, which would be a TAX REVOLT. The line of thinking is this: Senators and Representatives are not upholding the law of the constitution, nor are they representing the will of the people. Your tax money is being hoarded by the banks, and politicians have given them your tax money. And, why deposit your Salary in the bank if they already have your Tax money? First step in a Tax Revolt, take your money out of the banks. They will use your money to fight you.

A main perpetrator of the tax theft and wealth transfer from taxpayers to banks, criminal Senator Dodd knows he did wrong and is worried about what he did:

www.nytimes.com...
****************************************************
It’s unprecedented. There is nothing like it in the history of the United States. No week goes by without the Government buying into or buying up another failing “too big to fail” using taxpayer money. In the process, a super-race of corporate giants is being created that will be declared “too big to tumble.” It is a matter of historical fact: When people are homeless, helpless, desperate, jobless and hungry, sooner or later they will rebel. And it won’t be any different in America.....

Actually a Tax Revolt is not unprecedented, it launched our first Civil War the American Revolution, or do you forget the import/ export taxes on products like sugar, coffee, tea, corn, marijuana (hemp), etc. the Sugar Rebellion, The Tax Stamp rebellion, the Whiskey rebellion, the Drug War-- don't think government isn't just fighting for Tax money, GOOGLE Tax Stamps, all drug offenders have to pay the respective drug tax which is based upon the weight of that drug seized-- a rate which is set without representation rings back to the Boston Tea Party, Stamp and sugar Act revolutions and the mantra of "No Taxation Without Representation" which led to the Founding of America. So, unprecedented, not a chance.

As to Taxes themselves. Taxes are and were designed to maintain the expense of keeping Government's functioning. Any use beyond that is illegal. All these programs and organizations that they pay and give tax amnesty to are illegal. They are only to support government's functioning, not the functioning of that which makes government functioning, that belonged and belongs in the realm of free market, whether capitalist or the < I think, repugnant laisse faire capitalist systems.
Do this and Government would not only shrink, but competition would lead to better and cheaper Government network and support systems.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I think long before any civil war happened, there would probably be a secession of states from the union.

And the declared financial collapse of California and the declared expected collapse of 11 other States during this year wouldn't create ripe conditions for chaos on that order, plus all the other Inter State dependant economies that would affect, dragging more State or IntraState structures into the mix, wouldn't precipitate such an event?

Wasn't it by this Revelation of these some 12 States of their impending and expected bankruptcies to Congress recently, that compelled and drove all those high rates of gun and ammo purchases in the first place. Or, is modern history so forgetful already?

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by Dbriefed

.
Hillary Clinton. Lookout. She is currently 4th in the line of succession as Secretary of State.
Given some of the notorious legacies of the Clinton name, yes I would be surprised, but still. Omama, Biden, Pelosi...

OMG, PELOSI?!? That would bypass tax revolt and go straight to Civil War! She is the most evil and criminal Senator!

I have to bring this up here. Just as a thought. Suppose.. They find a way to get rid of the messiah? Either assassination, or making him prove he is a NBC ( which I do not believe he can do). Biden takes over, moves Hilary to VP. Which is very likely. Biden does a Clinton special like Forester did. Hilary has what she wanted all along. She can put Bill back in as VP and becomes the first woman pres and first husband wife couple. Or she moves Pelosi in for first lesbian couple. Well, whatever you want to call them. Talk about a legacy..

But to answer the question I think most real Americans will first protect their family. Then start up states like this country was supposed to be. But the question is would it be a civil war or revolution? I think since it will be against the so called government it would be a revolution.
But that is how I see it.. Right or wrong.

It would be the same side as it always has been, me and my families side! I would do whatever I had to do, even if that meant moving out of country to keep my kids safe.

Originally posted by tomfrusso
Yeah, I'm ready. Let's do it.

I think it should be peaceful...we should ask every politician from the president down to the local assembly person to step down.

I'm talking about something that is absolutely NON-VIOLENT.

We should use the internet and have a web site for public opinion polls and send the results to every news media outlet that will listen.

How do we start???

We should be able to re-write every law on the books so they make sense.

We should take back all this bailout money and give it to every home owner to pay off their mortgages.

We should stop this war in Iraq - Afganistan. Pull out all our troops and tell them if they don't give lay down their arms, we are going to nuke them - done - no nonsense.

We should send troops to our borders to cut off the illegal flow of drugs into this country. Anyone caught smuggling drugs should be shot on site. They don't deserve due process.

Anyone caught trying to enter the country should be dealt with humanely. They should be given a hot shower, good meal, a new set of clothes to wear home, immunized for deseases and sent back home.

We need a place at the border to do this and then we can allow them in the LEGAL way. Can anyone say "ELLIS ISLAND"?

We should stop sending food, medicine, clothing to other parts of the world.

We should throw the UN out of the country and send them to the Middle East. Maybe if everyone wanted to get along and sing cum-by-ya they should do it in a place where they can get shot at. Also, we should stop funding them too. We fund 25% of all UN functions. It should end.

We should stop educating foreign nationals.

We should make the language of the country English and stop this bi-lingual nonsense.

We should get rid of - deficit spending and put the country back on the gold standard.

You know, I wasn't a fan of Ron Paul(is that his name?) but now I am. He is the only one that is speaking about real freedoms.

All politicians are liers and idiots.

We should restrict public service for a maximum of 8 years in office. No one person should hold a seat in the house, senate, judge for life. That is just stupid.

You know, I'm sick and tired of all this nonsense. And if anyone thinks Obama is going to change anything - I have to say w-t-f are you smoking?

You know how freak'n stupid are people? Here In NYC they just raised property taxes - again. They stopped the rebate checks from going out and then - two weeks later - this idiot "paterson" just said they are not going to raise property taxes!!! Of course not - you just freak'n raised them.

This is way - way out of control.

Our founding documents state that "WE THE PEOPLE", if we don't like what's going on, It is up to "US" to change the government. Because the founding fathers new - government would not change government.


How can we start the PEACEFUL REVOLUTION? I AM WILLING TO HELP.

I agree, with but one aspect, the use of the internet. The Internet was created by the Defense Dept after "daisy- chaining" it's computers. I still remember my first one, it was black with orange and yellow and red and green bubble lights, and you connected wires in odd arrangements for different results-- then came paddle pong, then it was Atari, Then, Commodore, then PC's, my first was an Apple II+--- anyways, they devised them, and the fact that they were first commercialized to businesses, then packaged for homes, and that the home PC's took of like wildfire was no accident. It is foolish to believe that they did not anticipate such a wildfire of sales, it's the only reason a company ever sells a product, they project for those types of outcomes. To think they were caught off guard by changing technologies which they purposely release into the mainstream is naive also, bear in mind the stealth fighter and bomber designs were known to have been on the drawing boards as early as the 20's with prototypes by the 30's and working functional models by the 40's. Never mind the rewrites about it being a 70 and 80's thing, that's just when it was publically released for business use-- Government and Private that is-- now it's about to be decommisioned and allowed "stripped down" for commercial use, and if wealthy enough, private public use. So, to think that Reverend Thomas's leak of the Admin Access Learning Link educational Internet (which was the first commercial use of the Internet from the Government) in exchange for Knowledge and Access of the AT&T hub from Phyber Optik-- my ID namesake-- who now works for the Government designing your internet, which knowledge and access, Reverand Thomas and the "Legion of Doom-LOD" used to crash the New York Nine-Ex system in the 80's was an accident, think again. read Master's Of Destruction (MOD). Pride preceeds vanity, Al Gore adamantly declared he invented the internet, because folks, maybe, he is "Reverand Thomas."

Internet use, as you propose, would be sabatouged, agent provocatuers and anti- hackers would abound. That and the fact that the PC's and the Servers, and the Hubs, etc. are all pioneered and controlled by the very Governments you would use it against.
Why do they allow it then?
Well, look at all the free Intel you give up.

And don't you think all that A/V is two- way?

Privacy is the illussion, only multi character Alphabets and pre- arranged hiidden numeric codes and indicators leading to the math needed to decipher the BS lines of code from the real and hidden ones, which translations are available, Brittish- style, to the sender and recipient, and constantly changed and destroyed completely in an acid bath by the sender and reciever only, are the only true undecipherable, uncrackable, uncrypto revealable covert methods of communication, having an infinity log of possible translations.
Internet, bah! Only a government plant or a non learned one would even suggest that.

"Educate yourselves and others." --PMP % tt IOI

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

As said before on this thread i would fight for the side that upholds the constitutional rights laid down by our fore fathers. what would take me to breaking point where i would fight could be any number of things. I for one will fight to the death if they attempt to take away my 1st or 2nd amendment rights. I myself would attempt to lead if no one who was more suited for it were to step up to the task.