In the event of Civil War......

A civil war of any type would be a tragedy. America has enough problems. We need to remain united and strong. A civil war would be the end of the mightiest, most freedom loving, most generous nation in history.



[edit on 24-1-2009 by Marmota monax]

This happens almost every election year, this "civil war" cry. Heck in 92' when Clinton won folks most on the rightwing said there will be a civil war because, well I dont know values and what not. In 2000 both sides repeated this. Every election year... and there always a couple of crazies who want something as horrible as a civil war to happen because they are unsatisfied. Has nothing really do with the consitution and everything to do with dislike of the elections. The "civil war" cry is nothing new and this is probably the 10th time Iv heard this claim thus far.

War is a horrible horrible thing, and for folks here to speak about it as if they want it to happen or it needs to happen, especially when we're not speaking out in a majority, is indeed sad. During Bush the last thing I want was war of any kind unless it was in defense of our own territorial land as as far as I can see it, Iraq war a long way from invading us.

There will be no civil war, just another election year, just another nut crying for a civil war because he didnt like what happened last year.

Just a note to all, CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY HERE. You never know if this is another way to tally up some people to keep an eye on. If you say you are on the wrong side and this person is an NSA or CIA agent (or worse) you will then be watched and stalked like many others on this forum. Just a quick reminder of posts from the past. not to mention all of the laws bush put in place to spy on us. Don`t tell me Obama is taking care of it. For one, most are giving him too much credit and he`s only been in for a couple of days. Let`s talk 2 years from now and we will then judge his accolades, if any. here are some reminders as to the reason why you may want to keep your mouth shut about `who's side you will be on`.

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread373396/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread21582/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread149815/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread334659/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread298467/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread118038/pg1

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread365529/pg1
(enough about Above Top Secret though)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(Source blog.wired.com...

McCain - "I'd Spy on Americans Secretly, Too"
If elected president, Senator John McCain would reserve the right to run his own warrantless wiretapping program against Americans, based on the theory that the president's wartime powers trump federal criminal statutes and court oversight, according to a statement released by his campaign Monday.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(source www.msnbc.msn.com...
NEW YORK - President Bush has personally authorized a secretive eavesdropping program in the United States more than three dozen times since October 2001, a senior intelligence official said Friday night.
-more-
Bush on Friday refused to discuss whether he had authorized such domestic spying without obtaining warrants from a court, saying that to comment would tie his hands in fighting terrorists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

(source www.aclu.org...

According to the Times, Bush signed a presidential order in 2002 allowing the National Security Agency to monitor without a warrant the international (and sometimes domestic) telephone calls and e-mail messages of hundreds or thousands of citizens and legal residents inside the United States. The program eventually came to include some purely internal controls - but no requirement that warrants be obtained from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court as the 4th Amendment to the Constitution and the foreign intelligence surveillance laws require.

In other words, no independent review or judicial oversight.

That kind of surveillance is illegal. Period.

The day after this shocking abuse of power became public, President Bush admitted that he had authorized it, but argued that he had the authority to do so. But the law governing government eavesdropping on American citizens is well-established and crystal clear. President Bush's claim that he is not bound by that law is simply astounding.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just a small reminder, I don't have time to swim through the sea of proof, just know that YOU ARE BEING WATCHED ON HERE, indeed I say profiled. So recognize freedom of speech, but just watch what you say. Even if this guy or girl is just curious, there are others watching and tallying this forum and its future combatant enemies of the gov`t.


[edit on 24-1-2009 by DNAlien Fusion]

[edit on 24-1-2009 by DNAlien Fusion]

[edit on 24-1-2009 by DNAlien Fusion]

Originally posted by tide88
Really, you hear it everywhere. The only place I ever hear anything like that is on this website. Never before in the real world, as opposed to the internet world, have I even heard civil war mentioned. That is unless I am watching the history channel or a movie that takes place in the civil war era.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by tide88]

You need to get out more.

Sides

I would certainly echo those here who aren't about to sign on to any side but their own personal one. I'm not aligned with Republicans, Democrats, Goats or Sheep; I prefer to take care of me and mine and to hell with the rest. Some can call this selfish but is it really if I know any help I give out will not return to me based on prior experience? Survivalism is all about surviving and I most certainly do subscribe to that way of thinking because it keeps you alive. I'm no good to my family dead so why would I put myself on the front lines of an all out slaughter only to have my family meet the same ends later because I wasn't around to do my duty to protect them.

Catalyst

Honestly what it will take for things to truly start rolling is a martyr, a very high profile death in full on live public tv with no delay or censorship before being absorbed by the media. Think of a small child brutally shot down by riot police during a march in DC, imagine the crowd enraging and rushing the line of riot police and taking heavy casualties before breaking the line and then later being decimated by a fully armed military response. That alone would move this nation to action, anything less and they simply change the channel, turn the page, or check their email. The only thing that gets people's attention is something violent and in their face; only when its so graphic and horrible that at night the majority of the people cannot blink it away will the stage truly be set for the kind of revolution our Founding Fathers expect of us when the time comes.

Methodology

While some members have mentioned the idea of a peaceful change think for a second what you have ever seen the United States Government respond to, has it been flowers in the barrel of rifles? Has it been a 10,000 strong protest of songs, chants and speeches? No, they respond to money and violence. The US Government is the worlds largest business, so thus they are concerned about their bottom line; when you don't pay your taxes it hurts that line and they throw you in a cell. They also are staffed by humans (or so I'm told) and therefore fear for their lives, when they believe they are in danger they will react. Think happy-happy thoughts all you like but I prefer more direct means of manipulation to get results in a reasonable time-frame.

Military Involvement

While I would agree that some members of the armed forces will return to their families in such a conflict there are others who will stay; make no bones about it those who would stay with their units over family can and will kill civilians when called upon. I say they will turn on us because much like in a fight all sense of right and wrong and morals disappear - the only thing that matters is that someone is attempting to kill you and the only way to win is to eliminate the threat. Once bullets and blows are exchanged between the two sides everything will change; until the specific battle ends there is no civilians and military, only two enemy forces battling for survival and the fight will be waged as such. Applying that concept it will come down to a numbers game as to how many stay and fight for the Government and how many return to their families.

reply to post by PhyberDragon


I don't think there's anything wrong with editing what you write, I do a lot of editing for spelling mistakes, etc. My point is that it should be done.

But seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic or humorous, I really meant those things I said.

There will not be any civil war, there will not be a catastrophe in 2012. None of this stuff will happen, but it's a great way to sell stuff and to make money from a website. I think it's brilliant, not criticizing at all. If you want to make money, this is a great way to go since there are a lot of angry and paranoid (fearful) people in this world, as evident by this forum, (filled with fearful, paranoid and angry people).

reply to post by whaaa


I dont think we would make it 10 feet across the border, the citizens(in the USA) out number the military by a whopping 300 million plus , of which only a handful own only .22 cal. rifles, most own handguns larger than a .38 and significantly sized hunting rifles and shotguns as well. And don't forget the military is not comprised of single family-less people who's only allegiance is strictly military. cut the needs of some 300 million people and see how well the other 1.2 % controls them(thats a generous figure IMA), folks are on edge, a civil war may be just over the horizon, I HOPE NOT for the sake of my 9yr. old daughter and 2 yr. old son, how can i defend them against the numbers of desperate looters and criminals and just those trying to survive with having only a .40 cal and a 12 gauge shotgun.

[edit on 1/24/2009 by cal7man]

[edit on 1/24/2009 by cal7man]

reply to post by sun tzu


FANTASTIC POST !!! 10 STARS IF I COULD !!!

If something happens to wake up middle America, The fly over states as those on the east and west coast call it, Then government is done. The vast majority of the US are middle of the road, middle class, common sense people who choose not to get involved in politics unless their lives are effected... The wacko's on the west coast and the north east would not have a chance against those who "cling to their guns and religon"

Ah the prospects of civil war are closer and more real than any one can believe. A very interesting subject indeed. Lets first examine a few federal actions that have occured over than past few months to bolster the fact that the government is very wary of the American people standing up to them. Most recently the government had created NorthCom (northern command) a agency placed under the umberella of Homeland Security. But most notably 32000 members of the Armies 3rd Infantry Division were placed under there command in the event of national emergency/defense. Thus side stepping the Posse Comuntatis Act of 1878 and passing the James Warner National Defnse Act. Another addition to northcom is the recent restructuring of the national guard and reserves by robert gates. Proposing that DHS and northcom will have operational control of the guard and reserves thus removing the executive control of the guard from the governors of each state.
Presidental Directive 51 signed by G.W.Bush states "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." thus ensuring reguardless of a presidential election the sitting president remaining in power.
Rex 84 emboldened by court rulings to detain without charges and the recent awarding of government contract in the amount of 385 million to Halliburton by the DHS to build detention facilities across the US under the guise of "emergency influx of immigrants" Many of these facilities are being uncovered by civilians and posting them on youtube.
Proposed bill H.J. 5 introduced jan 9 to repeal the 22nd Amendment to the constitution regulating the number of terms of the POTUS.
Andnot to mention the current economic downslide of the US. As of friday printing of the fiat american dollar is up 70 percent from just six months ago when the government first began debating the bailouts. When hyperinflation hits or even worse the complete collapse of the value of the american dollar, the nation will be thrown into unprecidented darkness unfathomable in comparission to the great depression, to a country of 305 million.
Is the possiblity of civil war possible? The government has certainly laid the foundations to combat the effects of it. All this information is easily found on the internet. (I recently stumbled across this site this is my first post and unaware as to link but it is all out there for all to see.) Even a russian professor at the diplomatic academy of russias ministry of foreign affairs predicted break up up the union into 6 seperate entities. All very interesting, lets hope there is not a call to arms!

There is one point emerging from this thread that I think people are overlooking. The change that can be initiated by the populace not funding the government. The person a few posts back that said government is concerned with two things, their personal well being and their bottom line is right. So then to get them to change you could "threaten" their safety. Personally, I think this is a bad idea as the minute the threats start you will be labeled a criminal. Not just a criminal, but a criminal advocating violence. Thus ensuring that most law enforcement and military (being a the good troopers they are) will try and protect the threatened. So your other option is to cut off the money to the government. If an orchestrated tax revolt occured I assure you government would change. What that change would be I'm not sure.

Originally posted by mrsdudara

Originally posted by KMFNWO
It is our responsibility as citizens of the country to educate ourselves in the law and insure that it is upheld by all parties.

Well said.

I couldnt agree more.

Good idea, study the Law.
But, Don't just look at all the Policies, Drafts, Adoptions, Committee and Commission or Tribunal Reports and Studies for ALL the InterNational, National, Federal, State, Tribal, County, Region, District, Rural, City, Area, Annex, Territory, Holding, Purchase, etc. of the Legislative, Executive, Armed Force, Judiciary, Corporate, Limited Corporate, and all other Business- related, Industrial, Agricultural, Tax, Education, Health, Human Service, State, Homeland Security, and all other Individual/ Entity Categories and Sub Categories and all of their related and non related sub categories of Law, including, but not limited to Energy, Treasury (and all other Usary and Ossary categories, sub categories, etc. related and non) for both Public and Private Acts of Law, Orders, Conclusions, Rulings, Opinions, Statutes, Regulations, Rules, Procedures, and Guidelines, Citations, Affidavits, Accounting of, Oversight of, and Definitions (legal and non), etc.; but also, look at Construction of them, Interpretation of them, Debated Interpretations of them, Application of them, Conflicting Application of them, Exemptions and Exceptions to them (Ie: Political, Demographic, etc. (Ie: LEO's, Judges, Politicians, Organizations, Agencies, NSA-- if not specifically named by law, law does not apply to them law)etc.), Constitutional Law Theories for the Interpretation and Application of Constitutional Laws for InterNational, National, Federal, State, Tribal, County, Region, District, Rural, City, Area, Annex, Territory, Holding, Purchase, etc. Laws and Treaties. And how the respective Constitutional Laws Inter- Relate, Violate, Enforce, Reinforce, Abridge, etc. All other Categories, SubCategories, and SubCategories, related and non, of the Categories and Sub Categories, as well ass, All categories and Sub Categories of All other Laws, related and non.
Oh! And let's not forget Laws governing Oaths, Agreements, Contracts (oral, electronic, wriiten, transcribed, etc.), and other Laws regarding the execution of forged and non forged legal instruments, already coverd by many laws, but, as they are widespread and applied differently in different circumstances, it is good practice for how to sift and seperate other aspects of Law.

Ignorance of the Law is NO EXCUSE!!!

See if you walk away with the same philosophy you seem to have.

Or, were you just referring to the Laws you have an interest in and ignoring All the rest? Wouldn't someone else be neglected by you in this approach? Are you referring to studying the Laws and have others Study other Laws and combined the group learn and Enforce All the Laws? You'd get the same dilema we find ourselves with today, what's the point of such an arbitrary approach? Or were you just referring to your own arbitrary views of what Law is and think it a subject one can familiarize with or master easily, even though, no one person is or has ever been so gifted?

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by Twilly
If something happens to wake up middle America, The fly over states as those on the east and west coast call it, Then government is done. The vast majority of the US are middle of the road, middle class, common sense people who choose not to get involved in politics unless their lives are effected... The wacko's on the west coast and the north east would not have a chance against those who "cling to their guns and religon"

Do you know anything about "middle America"? If you did you'd know that like most middle class or poor people of other countries we are struggling to provide for our families, buy food, provide an eduction for our children, etc.

It takes all of your energy to do those things! We don't have the same leisure most of you do, to smoke pot, dream up obscene scenarios and to believe in fantastic ideals. We wish we could do those things.

What of the revolutions that should be happening in other countries? We Americans are the only "sheep" or dumb people in the world? There are no other conspiracies or corrupt governments in any other countries?

Only America's middle class/poor (or any other class) should "wake up", and revolt?

There are a sh*t load of kids and paranoids on this website who need to go through a lot of learning. People who haven't really experienced real life yet.

What a rude awakening you'll have when you grow up and start to really live in the real world, and find that your adolescent/pot induced ideals don't add up to a heap of crap.

It really won't. Your lives will just go on and on, uneventful leaving you to expend most of your energies on basic things, sustenance, providing for yourself and family/children, the mundane.

Instead of constantly trying or wishing to foil America, take a look around the world and choose any number of countries who are systematically committing genocide, or who are religious exclusionists, who are outward murderers of people who criticize their gov., or countries where oppressing women is the norm.

Why don't the people here ever address those real issues? Things that are reality, happening right in the open, right now as we speak. The human rights issue in China, the increasingly policed state of Russia, the oppression of women and religious intolerance in the middle east, etc. These things are really happening right now, you don't need to speculate.

Instead you have to invent horrific scenarios, pure conjecture and ridiculously paranoid fantasies which are exclusively of American origin?

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Electro38]

The day I fight will be the day that whichever side tries to invade my house and hurt my family. That is the day I will fight.

reply to post by kozmo


I agree Kozmo. I think the OP needs to change the thread wording to REVOLUTION because I think what he/she meant was an uprising against our currently run government with its falling away from the constitution, sound money practices, and Zionist run foreign policy.

Although there are some people who have trouble with Obama being black (unfortunately), it is by fare less than the amount upset with government corruption.

I hope the OP changes this. It sends the wrong message.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by TheDarkNight]

Ah the prospects of civil war are closer and more real than any one can believe. A very interesting subject indeed. Lets first examine a few federal actions that have occured over than past few months to bolster the fact that the government is very wary of the American people standing up to them. Most recently the government had created NorthCom (northern command) a agency placed under the umberella of Homeland Security. But most notably 32000 members of the Armies 3rd Infantry Division were placed under there command in the event of national emergency/defense. Thus side stepping the Posse Comuntatis Act of 1878 and passing the James Warner National Defnse Act. Another addition to northcom is the recent restructuring of the national guard and reserves by robert gates. Proposing that DHS and northcom will have operational control of the guard and reserves thus removing the executive control of the guard from the governors of each state.
Presidental Directive 51 signed by G.W.Bush states "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." thus ensuring reguardless of a presidential election the sitting president remaining in power.
Rex 84 emboldened by court rulings to detain without charges and the recent awarding of government contract in the amount of 385 million to Halliburton by the DHS to build detention facilities across the US under the guise of "emergency influx of immigrants" Many of these facilities are being uncovered by civilians and posting them on youtube.
Proposed bill H.J. 5 introduced jan 9 to repeal the 22nd Amendment to the constitution regulating the number of terms of the POTUS.
Andnot to mention the current economic downslide of the US. As of friday printing of the fiat american dollar is up 70 percent from just six months ago when the government first began debating the bailouts. When hyperinflation hits or even worse the complete collapse of the value of the american dollar, the nation will be thrown into unprecidented darkness unfathomable in comparission to the great depression, to a country of 305 million.
Is the possiblity of civil war possible? The government has certainly laid the foundations to combat the effects of it. All this information is easily found on the internet. (I recently stumbled across this site this is my first post and unaware as to link but it is all out there for all to see.) Even a russian professor at the diplomatic academy of russias ministry of foreign affairs predicted break up up the union into 6 seperate entities. All very interesting, lets hope there is not a call to arms!

reply to post by Morning Revival


That is the day it will be too late.

A Civil War would be completely pointless. Whatever the outcome, the political elite will still remain in power. Until we change our economy from monetary to resource based, there will always be a politician selling us out.

Also dont forget in the past the elite wanted to split america into two nations to weaken us. global goverment cant happen if America stands against it. A weaker American will more likely back a world goverment.

Possible outcomes from a civil war...

1. nation splits into several countries. California becomes its own nation. Texas also its own. These two nations have the size to survive on their own easily. The smaller states will suffer as they dont have the resources to be self-sufficient.

2. US goverment crushed the rebellion but it bloody. Many small groups form and attack terrorist style goverment buildings, schools, etc. Marshal Law is instituted and most freedoms are eliminated. We live in a police state.

3. Another nation moves in while we fight each other. I wouldnt put it past Russia to take back Alaska. Maybe Hawaii declares its independence. Mexico has always wanted New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas back. I wouldnt be surprised if China tried to take a piece of California (lot of chinese immigrants live there).

None of these scenarios will make life better for the average citizen. And possibly millions would die from war, starvation, disease, etc before things returned to normal. And it will just make the Bankers even richer as they loan money for bullets then more money to rebuild bridges.

You want a truly successful rebellion ? Get rid of the real enemy, the Federal Reserve. Hell, get rid of banks period. Get rid of money while we're out it. Base the economy on resources instead of some silly paper.

As long as we have a monetary system a war is pointless. Politicians that replace others will eventually fall victim to money's temptations.

So which side would I be on ? None of them. I choose me and my family. If a war breaks out I'll take my family into the mountains and wait it out. Im not risking my life so another corrupt leader can take over. Im not risking my childrens' lives so a banker can make more money.

Originally posted by Electro38

Originally posted by Twilly
If something happens to wake up middle America, The fly over states as those on the east and west coast call it, Then government is done. The vast majority of the US are middle of the road, middle class, common sense people who choose not to get involved in politics unless their lives are effected... The wacko's on the west coast and the north east would not have a chance against those who "cling to their guns and religon"

Do you know anything about "middle America"? If you did you'd know that like most middle class or poor people of other countries we are struggling to provide for our families, buy food, provide an eduction for our children, etc.

It takes all of your energy to do those things. We don't have the same leisure most of you do, to smoke pot, dream up obscene scenarios and to believe in fantastic ideals. We wish we could do those things.

What of the revolutions that should be happening in other countries? We Americans are the only "sheep" or dumb people in the world? There are no other conspiracies or corrupt governments in any other countries?

Only America's middle class/poor (or any other class) should "wake up", and revolt?

There are a sh*t load of kids and paranoids on this website who need to go through a lot of learning. People who haven't really experienced real life yet.

What a rude awakening you'll have when you grow up and start to really live in the real world, and find that your adolescent/pot induced ideals don't add up to a heap of crap.

It really won't. Your lives will just go on and on, uneventful leaving you to expend most of your energies on basic things, sustenance, providing for yourself and family/children, the mundane.

Instead of constantly trying or wishing to foil America, take a look around the world and choose any number of countries who are systematically committing genocide, or who are religious exclusionists, who are outward murderers of people who criticize their gov., or countries where oppressing women is the norm.

Why don't the people here ever address those real issues? Things that are reality, happening right in the open, right now as we speak. The human rights issue in China, the increasingly policed state of Russia, the oppression of women and religious intolerance in the middle east, etc. These things are really happening right now, you don't need to speculate.

Instead you have to invent horrific scenarios, pure conjecture and ridiculously paranoid fantasies which are exclusively of American origin?


[edit on 24-1-2009 by Electro38]

Electro, why are you slamming people for discussing issues here in the U.S. or maybe a better way to put it...in western civilization? Yes we all know there are injustices in other countries, atrocities, genocides etc. However, that doesn't mean I need to address them while turning a blind eye to the problems in my home. I can relate to your sentiment in most of your post but I think you need to relax a little.

reply to post by PhoenixDemon


Because there is no sign, or evidence of civil war in America. This country is a lot better than most on the planet, when you take a real good look around.

Why is America the only recipient of all of this doom/gloom stuff? There is no evidence of it.

Instead of trying to INVENT paranoid scenarios lets address real issues, which are currently happening.

Most people here, who are Americans really have no idea how fortunate they are, how much was sacrificed for them to be able to spew their ridiculous ideas in public without the threat of prosecution.

Where else did people fight and die to give you the right and freedom to do that?

We can only speak our minds and write/post freely here because the server that hosts this website/forum resides in a country where there is freedom of speech.


(But I did get carried away with my last post, I should calm down a little. But seriously, how many people here can say they don't smoke pot on a regular basis?)

*And it's annoying, that with all that's happening in other parts of the world (real things! real atrocities happening right now), that anything with an anti-American slant gets tons of stars, lots of attention and support here. No matter how ridiculous it is, or void of evidence.

That's annoying and it pisses me off.

I'm starting a revolt against you, the people of ATS who do this! It;s the only reason why I read though all of your crap and post my replies.

I'M THE MINORITY IN REVOLT!

(Sorry, I got carried away again. But, I'm serious I am in revolt against you, but more along the lines of a Gandhi style revolt.)

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Electro38]