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USA to cancel the F-22 to fund the war?

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posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:24 AM
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The thing is that military dominace is needed for any nation to be free. No nation cn be free unless it canprevent its enemies ( and allies) from attcking it. The only way not to be attacked is to project strength(basic prison survival rules) The f-22 will not be canceled because the one of the central tactical doctrines of the U.S. military is to assure dominace in all theatres of combat. The JSF is a front line fighter not an air superiority fighter. (like the difference between a PFC in the army and a ranger) Regardless of budgetary concerns the U.S. is not willing to compromise military dominace (thank god)
The comanche while very far along was not planned to be used for the same role and is not comparable to the F-22 program as the comanche had a more limited mission profile.




posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 11:32 AM
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"regardless of bugetary concerns " umm im afraid ur wrong u see politicians will always get the last word because they control the senate and the senate controls goverment and so on and so forth.
"The thing is that military dominace is needed for any nation to be free" you know you dont need military dominance to be free. military dominance is just showing u have money and power ,oh wow, did it stop terrorist attacks? no. the military is there to protect not intimidate. they are designed to defend not attack.
and whats this "(and allies)" bit all about? are you exspecting your friend to stab you in the back in a fight?
the USA will never be dominent in all theatres of combat, germany tried that twice and failed as an exsample, there will always be a time when the leader is nocked off the podium. like in the 60's when america wasnt dominent in rocket warfare. or like when the kreigsmarine knocked the royal navy off the podium at under sea combat.
america may try but never suceed in being the best at all theatres.
oh 1 small thing if the f22 is replaceing all the F class fighters then what happens if they found a design flaw?
the USA does not have military dominence .



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 02:39 AM
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Devilwanabe I've alredy learned to ignore your opinions so don't bother responding to me.



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
the USA does not have military dominence .



You know, I've figured you for a bright guy till I read this


So please, tell me, if us Yanks don't have military dominance, WHO IN THE HELL DOES? The UK?



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by devilwasp
the USA does not have military dominence over the world



You know, I've figured you for a bright guy till I read this


So please, tell me, if us Yanks don't have military dominance, WHO IN THE HELL DOES? The UK?


NO 1 has military dominence u have military dominence over iraq and such cause u have soo much fire power and the likes but u dont have military domininece

oh gee thanks for the comment man i love u 2

[edit on 8-6-2004 by devilwasp]



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Devilwanabe I've alredy learned to ignore your opinions so don't bother responding to me.


gee thanks you know mabye if u stopped thinking with your genitals and took a look around ud see that america isnt number 1
its only number 1 in tech nothing else



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by devilwasp
the USA does not have military dominence over the world



You know, I've figured you for a bright guy till I read this


So please, tell me, if us Yanks don't have military dominance, WHO IN THE HELL DOES? The UK?


NO 1 has military dominence u have military dominence over iraq and such cause u have soo much fire power and the likes but u dont have military domininece

oh gee thanks for the comment man i love u 2

[edit on 8-6-2004 by devilwasp]






Devilwasp we have military domininece over every one they are just scared and jelaous of the US and can u name me one country who can beat the US? the truth is no one can beat us in land air or sea.


[edit on 16-6-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23


Devilwasp we have military domininece over every one they are just scared and jelaous of the US and can u name me one country who can beat the US? the truth is no one can beat us in land air or sea.


[edit on 16-6-2004 by WestPoint23]


Really?

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Devilwasp we have military domininece over every one they are just scared and jelaous of the US and can u name me one country who can beat the US? the truth is no one can beat us in land air or sea.


[edit on 16-6-2004 by WestPoint23]


Really?

Out,
Russian






Yes Really!



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Devilwasp we have military domininece over every one they are just scared and jelaous of the US and can u name me one country who can beat the US? the truth is no one can beat us in land air or sea.


[edit on 16-6-2004 by WestPoint23]


Really?

Out,
Russian






Yes Really!



this kind of mentality will bring usa down.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by feindflug



this kind of mentality will bring usa down.


He said it for me.

I will say another thing AGAIN.

The higher you go the harder you fall.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by feindflug



this kind of mentality will bring usa down.


He said it for me.

I will say another thing AGAIN.

The higher you go the harder you fall.

Out,
Russian





posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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Agreed Russian, through history there have always been dominant nations, the Catholic sponsored Portuguese and Spanish carving the New World up with Britain and France. And we all know what happened to them, the Spanish choked to death on too much money deflating their economy and the British found out you can't rule with a gun, got kicked out of South Africa, India and China, there's no moral high ground by being arrogantly powerful. Rome was powerful, it fell, so did the Ottomans. They both fell when things changed and they would not move with the times. Stagnation is death. Any nation sitting at the top, happy to be there is waiting for a big fall indeed. The WalMart economy of buy cheap and give the Chinese lots of jobs while making one family in Arkansas is symptomatic of it.

But this whole discussion is higly off topic.

The F/A-22 is a very expensive aircraft, will never be delivered in the amounts the USAF wanted, it will be a silver bullet type machine, good for limited use to clear the air for the F-35, which will be the bread and butter for the tactical airforces of the world, expensive itself, but its technology is based on its big bro, the Raptor. Engine, airframe, sensor fusion, its all Raptor inspired.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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really when have we ever been down so much that we couldent bounce back and this is not like the ancient times where everyone was isolated in this day and age if the US falls which i highly doubt the rest of the world falls because they depend on us as much as we depend on them no one has the tech and the money to compete with the US


[edit on 17-6-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 10:28 AM
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I don't know if they will or not, but the US Air Force would put up a Hell of a Fight if they did. Lets look back for a minute at where the F-22 or (F/A-22 as some people now call it) came from. The plane was concieved in the late 1970's as the Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF). It was part of a two prong strategy to win an all out war against the USSR (now Russia). The ATF would dominate the skies against 5th generation Mig's and help defend the US, while the Advanced Technology Bomber (Now called the B-2 Spirit) would strike ground targets with a mix of conventional and nuclear weapons.

With the world changing, the Air force is trying to hold onto these expensive investments.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 03:49 PM
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the f-22 was designed with Russia in mind, so when the Ussr fell many politicians thought that anything doing with the Cold Wars was unnecassary, which is quite the opposite. Iran, Serbia, Iraq and North Korea and most enemies of the US use Russian equipment because it is cheap and many replacement parts exist (nothing against Russia) The F-22 is needed because it was designed to fightt these weapons, and will be effective regardless of what nation is weilding it. With new conflictrs like Iraq and Afghanistan, air DOMINANCE is required to crush the opposition. The world is moving toward globalization and the enemies of the US are those countries who refuse to open themselfs to this reality. The US will bind the world together by freedom and crush all those who attempt to distrupt it by terror (Osama, Saddam ect.)



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Supercool
The F-22 is a waste of money and it should be canceled.

It will not give the USA any kind of advantage over say an enemy like Russia or China or India.

It is too expensive and it is not stealthy enough.

They will probaby build about 100 and cancel the program like they did with the B-2 Bomber after 21 planes.

The B-2 wasn't worth 2.2 billion dollars USD each.


And your conclusion are based on What? First of all the B-2 is worth MORE then the $2.2 billion it costed. I researched the B-2 for ATS some time Back! the B-2 revelutionized bombing in several ways. First, It was the First Ture All-Weather Precision Bomber in the World. JDAM (the satellite guided smart bombs) is a spin off of the B-2's GPS/INS intergrated bombing system. Untill the B-2 smart bombs didn't work very well in bad weather. Second, the B-2 was the first plane that could penetrate heavily defended airspace and find mobile targets in any weather (the F-117 uses IR and is VERY dependent on clear weather)!


Please do some research. (Visit the Research fourm and Read up on the B-2) Check all of the facts before you start drawing conclusions! The difference between a logical discussion and a pointless debate over oppinions is the facts that are the foundation of a logical discussion!

B-2 Research Project

I've given you the link to the info, Now it's you turn Supercool! Take some time and go read the facts.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by devilwasp
the USA does not have military dominence over the world



You know, I've figured you for a bright guy till I read this


So please, tell me, if us Yanks don't have military dominance, WHO IN THE HELL DOES? The UK?


NO 1 has military dominence u have military dominence over iraq and such cause u have soo much fire power and the likes but u dont have military domininece

oh gee thanks for the comment man i love u 2

[edit on 8-6-2004 by devilwasp]


Sorry buddy, no offence intended, just joshing you


I thought you were trying to say that the US was in someway inferior to another country in millitary prowess, and I'm sure you've figured out that I would have something to say about that.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
no one has the tech and the money to compete with the US


The EU is a bigger economy. And tech? Hmm..


GD

posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Isreal isn't getting the F/A-22 - no one is...IT'S ALL OURS, MWAHAHAHAHA


IMHO, the JSF could work fine without the raptor, since it will provide the bulk of our air forces.

As for the B-2, It is overpriced because it was UNDERPRODUCED (as well as being the most complicated aircraft ever). We were supposed to get around 120 if my memory serves me right, but we only ended up getting 20 something (again, if I remember right). We can't get rid of it as it provides part of our nuclear deterent as well as the ability to strike targets no other aircraft in the world can hit.

Hey you know what?

We were initially supposed to get 631 raptors, we payed for it, but only got about 300.

And the JSF will not provide the bulk force for the sky fleet, the Raptor will, that is why it such an essential part of our airforce, the JSF was made to replace navy bombers, air force quick strike aircraft, and marine corp troop support aircraft, it will do for some air superiority, but the F/A-22 will do all of the A-A combat.

Shattered OUT...


All those future Marine and Naval aces should just hang it up, I guess. Since they won't be doing any A-A combat.




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