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USA to cancel the F-22 to fund the war?

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posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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www.reuters.com...



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States must increase the number of its troops in Iraq as well as the size of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps overall to face up to the challenges in Iraq, Sen. John McCain said on Sunday.
"It's obvious that we're paying a heavy price, I think, for not having had enough troops there from the beginning," the Arizona Republican said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

About 135,000 U.S. troops are now in Iraq.



How will cancelling the prized F-22 stealth fighter make the USA more secure? This seems like a false economy to me!


[Edited on 11-4-2004 by DJDOHBOY]




posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by psteel
How will cancelling the prized F-22 stealth fighter make the USA more secure? This seems like a false economy to me!


It won't. Cancelling the fighter would enable U.S. to fund its war in Iraq.

Cancelling the program is not yet decided, it is just an option, so no need for major worries.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 04:41 PM
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the F-22 isn't going any where. Production has already begun. It's more likely that something else would go because the F-15 is getting really long in the tooth.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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F/A-22 has always been close to be cancelled. This is no different. It will be going nowhere.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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I highly doubt they will cancel the F-22a project.

The reason is that the F-22 has already been sold to other countries, and if that is true and we cancel the F-22, then American security will be compromised, cancellation is not a option for the sole fact that we should not even be at war with Iraq.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
I highly doubt they will cancel the F-22a project.

The reason is that the F-22 has already been sold to other countries, and if that is true and we cancel the F-22, then American security will be compromised, cancellation is not a option for the sole fact that we should not even be at war with Iraq.

Shattered OUT...

The F-22 has NOT been sold to other countries... you are thinking of the F-35 JSF.
And IF they cancel the F-22 I fear I may be out of a job.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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The F-22 has NOT been sold to other countries... you are thinking of the F-35 JSF.
And IF they cancel the F-22 I fear I may be out of a job.

Don't worry intelgurl it won't happen. If the F-15 could be expanded on any more than it is, I would be worried. As it is, they have done all the can with that A/C. It is time for something new.

They might get fewer, but they will get them.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Here I was thinking Isreal was going to recieve F-22's.

And what is your job intelgurl???

But still in my own opinion, the F-22 will not CANNOT be cancelled for the sole reason that, it is a 4th generation fighter, the first of its kind, just like the JSF.

Without the F-22, there would be no point to keeping a the JSF, and besides the F-22 and JSF were backed up by other presidents, but not Bush, and now we go to war and all of a sudden we are going bankrupt, if you are going to cancel something, cancel the over priced and over produced B-2, stop making 'em.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Isreal isn't getting the F/A-22 - no one is...IT'S ALL OURS, MWAHAHAHAHA


IMHO, the JSF could work fine without the raptor, since it will provide the bulk of our air forces.

As for the B-2, It is overpriced because it was UNDERPRODUCED (as well as being the most complicated aircraft ever). We were supposed to get around 120 if my memory serves me right, but we only ended up getting 20 something (again, if I remember right). We can't get rid of it as it provides part of our nuclear deterent as well as the ability to strike targets no other aircraft in the world can hit.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Isreal isn't getting the F/A-22 - no one is...IT'S ALL OURS, MWAHAHAHAHA


IMHO, the JSF could work fine without the raptor, since it will provide the bulk of our air forces.

As for the B-2, It is overpriced because it was UNDERPRODUCED (as well as being the most complicated aircraft ever). We were supposed to get around 120 if my memory serves me right, but we only ended up getting 20 something (again, if I remember right). We can't get rid of it as it provides part of our nuclear deterent as well as the ability to strike targets no other aircraft in the world can hit.

Hey you know what?

We were initially supposed to get 631 raptors, we payed for it, but only got about 300.

And the JSF will not provide the bulk force for the sky fleet, the Raptor will, that is why it such an essential part of our airforce, the JSF was made to replace navy bombers, air force quick strike aircraft, and marine corp troop support aircraft, it will do for some air superiority, but the F/A-22 will do all of the A-A combat.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Here I was thinking Isreal was going to recieve F-22's.

And what is your job intelgurl???

But still in my own opinion, the F-22 will not CANNOT be cancelled for the sole reason that, it is a 4th generation fighter, the first of its kind, just like the JSF.

Without the F-22, there would be no point to keeping a the JSF, and besides the F-22 and JSF were backed up by other presidents, but not Bush, and now we go to war and all of a sudden we are going bankrupt, if you are going to cancel something, cancel the over priced and over produced B-2, stop making 'em.

Shattered OUT...

I work for Raytheon.
It just doesn't make sense to kill off the F-22 at this time, not with both Russia and China working on 5th gen fighters... I sure hope they find another way to save money.

Regarding your statement about the F-22.. it is a 5th generation fighter, not 4th...
and B-2's are not being made right now although there has been recent discussions on increasing the number from 20 to 40 or even 60. Northrop is saying they can make a second run of the B-2 and they'd only cost $750 million a copy... a real bargain considering the first batch cost 2.2 billion per unit.
Currently all B-2's are undergoing upgrades to the Block 30 revision... these upgrades should be complete by the end of 2005.
(I hate to correct you but I just had to....)




posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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It is unquestionable, I believe, that much of the B-2 money, and probably a substantial amount of the F-22 money, was diverted to unacknowleged special access (i.e. "black") programs.

If Northrop can restart the assembly line a decade later and still make them at 750 million in today's dollars (versus yesterdays) then it's very obvious that a huge amount of money was diverted.

It also makes sense that it gets diverted from the USAF-only highest-tech highest-classification projects; joint things like the JSF will have more cost controls and auditors from the different services wanting to make sure the others aren't ripping theirs off.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Isreal isn't getting the F/A-22 - no one is...IT'S ALL OURS, MWAHAHAHAHA


IMHO, the JSF could work fine without the raptor, since it will provide the bulk of our air forces.

As for the B-2, It is overpriced because it was UNDERPRODUCED (as well as being the most complicated aircraft ever). We were supposed to get around 120 if my memory serves me right, but we only ended up getting 20 something (again, if I remember right). We can't get rid of it as it provides part of our nuclear deterent as well as the ability to strike targets no other aircraft in the world can hit.

Hey you know what?

We were initially supposed to get 631 raptors, we payed for it, but only got about 300.

And the JSF will not provide the bulk force for the sky fleet, the Raptor will, that is why it such an essential part of our airforce, the JSF was made to replace navy bombers, air force quick strike aircraft, and marine corp troop support aircraft, it will do for some air superiority, but the F/A-22 will do all of the A-A combat.

Shattered OUT...


Yes, the JSF WILL provide the bulk of our airforce - the F-22 will provide air dominance, but the 35 will do the brunt of the work. Put it this way, the USAF will get as you said around 300 raptors, they will get 1,700 JSFs.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
It is unquestionable, I believe, that much of the B-2 money, and probably a substantial amount of the F-22 money, was diverted to unacknowleged special access (i.e. "black") programs.

If Northrop can restart the assembly line a decade later and still make them at 750 million in today's dollars (versus yesterdays) then it's very obvious that a huge amount of money was diverted.

It also makes sense that it gets diverted from the USAF-only highest-tech highest-classification projects; joint things like the JSF will have more cost controls and auditors from the different services wanting to make sure the others aren't ripping theirs off.

I agree with you for the most part concerning diverted funds for SAP's, however it is important to also realize that in the first run of B-2's they had all of the R&D costs wrapped up in 20 birds, and that could also, easily explain the variance.



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 04:11 AM
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Whats this 5th generation russian plane intel girl talked about? Is it the Berkut the plane with forward sweep wings or something eles?



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Whats this 5th generation russian plane intel girl talked about? Is it the Berkut the plane with forward sweep wings or something eles?


I had to look this up, but yes, from what I've read, russia's 5th generation fighter is the SU-47/S-37/S-32 'Berkut' or 'golden eagle'.

Here is a nice pic of it:



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 07:28 AM
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the raptor wont be cancelled because it is too late for a new program to begin, the f-22 is about to be delivered to langely its first home (the hangars and support facilities are almost done) and the Jsf depends on f-22 technology but cannot replacee it due to the fact that it was designed as only a ground attack complement to the raptor. Simply upgrading eagles would be a wastte of money because they are over 30 years old and aircraft out in the world were designed to defeat the eagle. Senator McCain needs to keep his nose out of the Air Force, because political involvement in the military caused tthe hardships in Vietnam that he should know very well.



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 08:58 AM
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Although cancelling the whole F-22 thing makes more practical sense (as russia and china are making negligible progress in this direction) i kinda feel its way too late for such a radical decision to be enforced as the 22 has alredy entered production and everyone in the airforce and the public are eagerly expecting it.



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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they would not cancle a program like the f22 beacause frankly its is with out a doubt the best fighter in service right now (although if the f-23 was in then it would be 2nd best)
thirdly the usaf would not cancle a program that has provided many new designs and ideas for aircrafts
fourthly they cant pull out now because its in production stage

oh and another point the jsf is actually going to be the work horse of the usaf and the f22 is going todo a more of sf kinda role



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 09:32 AM
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Excuse me? Eagles a waste of money?

Do you want to know something? Was it a waste of money as you say when the F-15 eagle has never lost a life in A-A combat? Was it a waste of money that it turned out to be amongst the greatest Air Superiority fighters in world history?

The F-15 leaves room for advancement, and in the future, if there were a future for the F-15, chances are it would be upgraded to a stealth aircraft when the technology is available.

The F-15 is my all time favorite aircraft, it is not only beautiful, but it is manueverable.

Still the F-22 will not be cancelled, it cannot, not for the reason that it is in production stage, but for the reason that it is America's icon of defense basically, it is our pride, it stands for demorcratic freedom, it is the most important fighter to come out for its time.

Shattered OUT...




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