Escaping Religious Images and Delusions

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posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by redhead57

Focus on sin and the evil in the world and your world is dark and cloudy, focus on love and give that energy out to even that in the world that is dark is clear and bright.


Right, which is what I said exactly!! To live according to self and the spirit of the world, is denying the the life and Spirit of God in you. OR, to live by the spirit, you will not fulfill the desires of the old man!!
Same thing, just different wording.

Why did you not see that?


We agree on the awakening, but I don't see it as the old man and new man. But the ego which fights against love, because it wants its own way. It is a part of us that we must carry, but learn to control. Perhaps I am not clear, but it seems as if you are saying that an experience with Jesus is necessary for salvation and the birth or rebirth of the spirit. I see it as in inward journey and recognition of the love within and the inner connection to the Creator and the true nature and power of love, Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross is not part of it.

There are many people all over the earth throughout our history that were spiritual and wise. They had wonderful insight to live and god. Yet they never heard of Jesus, they should not be denied heaven. These are hard questions that need to be searched out in the heart of the individual.

I do love Jesus and believe he lived and he came to teach us how to find that connection to the Creator. His message is not so different from the messages of the sages of all time. I just cannot see that a God that would create this amazing universe so full of life and diversity would limit his children to only one way to come to him. I believe it is individual, and we are born to learn various lessons to take with us. I also believe we do come back to learn again and again if we so choose. How can we understand fully what it is to be human if we only live one time in one circumstances. Anyway, that is off topic.




posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by redhead57

We agree on the awakening, but I don't see it as the old man and new man. But the ego which fights against love, because it wants its own way.


Ego or Self are just different words describing the same things.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Hello again John,

I know, I can be a pest....

The issue is this. How many of us could remain righteous when our life of flesh is at stake. Are we to fear those that can kill the flesh...or do we have enough faith that our righteous actions will be the beginning of our spiritual life with Thee.

I understand where you are coming from...it is the feeling that we have the right to protect this life of flesh and protect the flesh life of our loved ones.

But the message from Jesus does not teach this. It shows how weak peoples faiths our in their spiritual life after this life of flesh. We learned more from Jesus remaining righteous....even forgiving them in the last moments of his flesh life. You can say that he came here to do that, knowing he had to die....but mabey we come here too knowing that, mabey we too are to step up and show we are not going to kill someone so we can remain in this flesh life.

Hate evil and love good. THEN WHY DID JESUS SAY LOVE YOUR ENEMIES?

The message that gets portrayed when we remain righteous in a time of such a ugly situation is not for your benefit (the self) but for the benefit for another self to learn from you and your actions. This is what Jesus did. He did not live for his own self....his lesson was to his other selves....in the end, we see his love for us...and in the end, through a righteous act....others will see your love and righteous heart that did not allow this dark world to darken your soul. If anything, mabey the killer will learn something from the one who wasnt willing to shed blood to keep his own life of flesh.

Yes it sucks that there is hate here....yes it sucks that we dont have a fast fix for all these wars and hate....it is a slow process for the world as a whole to learn from others actions of love and righteousness.


Love does defeat all things....it might take a long duration of time for love to show it prevails over all things....but it truly truly does.

We all learn through our own actions and others actions. When we see someone killed and we see that it was unfair, God is seeing that situation in our eyes and heart and seeing how we feel about that.

I believe that if you kill someone out of defense for your flesh life, then you are blemishing your righteousness. I dont think this is the life we are to be fighting for. To own up to such a thought is the most difficult lesson that I learned through no other then the man they call Jesus. I had to ask myself, am I willing to not let the darkness blemish me?

Im not saying we just stand aside and watch all the bad things to people happen. Im saying, we use our selves where it can be used....offer help to the ones that are abused, offer love to the ones who lost the loved one, bring peace to the homes that live in chaos, smile to the man who never ever says anything nice


What does turn the other cheek mean to you?

With all due respect,
LV



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Demons do not place thoughts in peoples heads.... they dont exist...
you should really rid your mind of this delusion... it seems to be the soruce of all of your other confusion. You have no free will. Your bad choices are yours... your good choices are yours... no demon is whispering in anyones ear.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Can you do me a small favor. If you could, I would appreciate one or two questions at a time, otherwise it becomes a real task trying to respond to all.

I think your first question can be answered by understanding God's Grace and His Mercy. It is obvious that we cannot be perfect, and where would the Peace of God that passes all understanding be if we had to worry about God swatting us with a big fly swatter from heaven? Not too much Peace in that is there?

God knows our hearts and minds better than we do. The main thing is that we have a sincere desire to Live for God out of a grateful and thankful heart for Him choosing us first. Scripture says He knew us and predestined us before the foundation of the world to be one with Him. Keep your faith in Him and you receive His Grace.

I'll try to explain better later. gotta run.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Demons do not place thoughts in peoples heads.... they dont exist...
you should really rid your mind of this delusion... it seems to be the soruce of all of your other confusion. You have no free will. Your bad choices are yours... your good choices are yours... no demon is whispering in anyones ear.


Thoughts are energy. Where do they go? Is this all there is? Are there other dimensions or realms? Can you prove Demons do not exist?

There are dozens of NT Scriptures referring to demon possession causing mental and physical illnesses. A major feature of Jesus' ministry is portrayed as curing people of demonic possession.
Matthew 4:24: "...they brought unto him [Jesus] all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy..."
Matthew 8:16: "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils..."
Matthew 8:28-34: "And when he [Jesus] was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce..." (KJV; devils are normally translated as demons in other Bible versions).
Matthew 9:32-33: "As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil."
Matthew 10:1: "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
Matthew 12:22: "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb..."
Matt 12:43-45: "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none."
Matthew 15:22: "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."
Matthew 17:14-18: "There came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed...And Jesus rebuked the devil; "
Mark 1:23: "And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out..."
Mark 3:11: "And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried..."

But this is all ignorance to you. You cannot prove your position, nor can I prove mine. So where does that leave us? I educate myself and make an informed decision. My decision is demons manifest as thoughts in peoples minds and then cause people to act on those thoughts.



[edit on 24/1/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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I see it more as a resolution of language/culture as see from afar.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by redhead57

We agree on the awakening, but I don't see it as the old man and new man. But the ego which fights against love, because it wants its own way.


Ego or Self are just different words describing the same things.


This is a direct attack on the father - the one who is known as I AM.

It is the father inside you that is the only thing that gives you a sense of self. Without the father inside you, then you would have no sense of self. No ego at all. Because you would be unaware to being aware. Just like a robot who lacks consciousness, lacks the idea of self and lacks heart, free will and choice.

What you talk about is getting people to sell their souls. It is to claim the father made a mistake in giving man free will and consciousness.

How can you love others as you love yourself when you have no respect or love for yourself? If the father had wanted what you claimed, then he wouldn't have given us free will. What you claim the father wants, is what Satan wants. So that he can control you as your self esteem is too low to make your own choices. Like an abusive husband who puts his wife down to keep her self esteem low for control purposes.

It is about all things in their proper places. Not putting yourself above others has nothing to do with the other extreme of no ego at all. The father gave your free will. You will know and learn both good and evil(knowledge). The point is to have WISDOM to make the correct choices for YOURSELF.

When you are able to be WISE in YOUR decisions, then you are following Gods will.

One must only realize that the father is inside all, and that should be plenty to keep your ego in check. It is only if you do not realize the father is in everyone, then your ego is too big, as you put importance on yourself over others. At which point, you no longer loves others as thyself.

It is the father within you that gives a sense of self. To turn your back on this is to turn your back on the father. The ONLY time you will ever lose your sense of self is when you enter into the father. And NO human has done this, because you can not be in this reality and enter into the father at the same time. 1 thing that remains the same for all NDE's is that there is a point they can not go beyond. Because at that point they enter the father and they can NOT return to this reality after, because the limited perception required for this reality is gone after that point. Thus why Jesus says after his death he will enter into the father. Before his death, the father is in him.

You speak of nothing less than selling your soul. To give away your individuality, your free will and your sense of self to a so called "greater power", which is nothing more than Satan himself. Someone told me you were a demon, I didn't believe them, but I am starting to believe them with the dribble you post.





[edit on 24-1-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Realizing you have no free will is the key that unlocks the mysterys of reality. Its not losing your soul... but regaining logic and reason.. your soul never existed.

Free will is what gives ignorant people an excuse to not understand the world around them.. because that would require much more work.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
Realizing you have no free will is the key that unlocks the mysterys of reality. Its not losing your soul... but regaining logic and reason.. your soul never existed.

Free will is what gives ignorant people an excuse to not understand the world around them.. because that would require much more work.


If I had no free will, then I couldn't have the will to realize anything. What you are talking about is using my free will to realize I have no free will. Absolutely ridiculous.

The soul is your own bit of individuality in the father.

Part of having free will is the ability to give away. You can by your own free will give away your free will to another. This is what Satan wants. For you to give him your soul. To give him your individuality and your will to him. To give him your soul. He can not take it, and thus he has to use manipulations like these in order to TRICK people into giving away the very things the father gave them, a soul.

If I had no free will as you say, then how in the world could I even think about making a choice? I would be unable to make a choice.

Again you talk about selling your soul.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Realizing you have no free will is the key that unlocks the mysterys of reality. Its not losing your soul... but regaining logic and reason.. your soul never existed.

Free will is what gives ignorant people an excuse to not understand the world around them.. because that would require much more work.


If I had no free will, then I couldn't have the will to realize anything. What you are talking about is using my free will to realize I have no free will. Absolutely ridiculous.

The soul is your own bit of individuality in the father.

Part of having free will is the ability to give away. You can by your own free will give away your free will to another. This is what Satan wants. For you to give him your soul. To give him your individuality and your will to him. To give him your soul. He can not take it, and thus he has to use manipulations like these in order to TRICK people into giving away the very things the father gave them, a soul.

If I had no free will as you say, then how in the world could I even think about making a choice? I would be unable to make a choice.

Again you talk about selling your soul.



All of your choices are made using previous experainces... if i were to remove one of those experiances i change your thoughts and your "choice". Satan does not exist.... just another reason for people to remain ignorant of reality. Your limited veiw of reality makes it seem as if your making a choice. We're all puppets, Badmedia. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
All of your choices are made using previous experainces... if i were to remove one of those experiances i change your thoughts and your "choice". Satan does not exist.... just another reason for people to remain ignorant of reality. Your limited veiw of reality makes it seem as if your making a choice. We're all puppets, Badmedia. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings.


That isn't true. This is the story of Job in a nutshell. You make the same argument Satan makes about Job. Job is only good because of his environment. Surely if you changed his environment, Job would not be good.

I will show you the truth of free will. It will be my next post, it is long and takes a good bit of writing though. But think on the story of Job for now. Just because the bible says it, doesn't mean it is true and to accept it for that reason is to accept authority as truth, rather than truth as authority, so I will show you the understanding.



[edit on 24-1-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Seeing as how the story decended from a bunch of ignorant inbreeding desert people. I think i could safetly assume that it is only a story givin to the ignorant and feeble minded to reinforce there delusions. After all how are you gonna keep the donations up to fund a war.... or keep the church full of potential soilders ... just waiting for gods command to kill... it takes lots of religious fools to wage a war.... just look throughout history.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Wertdagf]



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



When you are wise in your own eyes you are at enmity to God.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by badmedia
 


Seeing as how the story decended from a bunch of ignorant inbreeding desert people. I think i could safetly assume that it is only a story givin to the ignorant and feeble minded to reinforce there delusions. After all how are you gonna keep the donations up to fund a war.... or keep the church full of potential soilders ... just waiting for gods command to kill... it takes lots of religious fools to wage a war.... just look throughout history.



True, but try looking in the mirror. You make the same mistake as the hypocrites and pharisees. You can see the evil in others, but you are unable to see it in yourself. You can see the ignorance in those people, but you are unable to see the same ignorance in yourself.

Surely you realize it isn't so much about the details on what someone thinks, but rather on principles behind their thinking?

You get onto them for accepting things blindly, and you point out the evils they have done. However, you act on that same ignorant level of thinking. Because you completely dismiss it all for the same reason. It's just the other side of the same coin. You are still taking authority as truth, rather than truth as authority. Just as they do. The only thing you argue and differ about is who is the authority. They say Jesus/God, you say it is something else.

But oddly enough, even by your own beliefs - how can you blame them? You say they have no choice in the matter, and lack free will.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
When you are wise in your own eyes you are at enmity to God.


And through whose eyes do you claim to have the wisdom to say that I am only wise in my own eyes?

I am sitting here telling you point blank that is only because the father is within us to begin with that we can even have any understandings at all. When you deny your "self", you deny the father is within. Because only by the father are you even able to make such a distinction to being with.



Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,
but that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.
We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant,
gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.

Your playing small does not serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about shrinking
so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make manifest the glory of God within us.
It is not just in some; it is in everyone.

And, as we let our own light shine, we consciously give
other people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our fear,
our presence automatically liberates others.

-Marianne Williamson


Where would you be if Jesus hadn't allowed his glory to manifest and denied himself?



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


This is why i love them... and have said it many times to many people.

Your Turth as authority thing makes no sense... sounds like some more religious ignorant babble.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Okay, if Jesus is the son of God, who determined that?
The council of Nicaea, that technically makes him an ordinary mortal.
Why is he held at a higher status than all the rest of us?
We all could be walking Jesus' but nobody calls us Divine or the son/daughter of God himself.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by badmedia
 


This is why i love them... and have said it many times to many people.

Your Turth as authority thing makes no sense... sounds like some more religious ignorant babble.


"They must find it difficult...
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
Rather than truth as the authority." -G. Massey, Egyptologist

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." -Leonardo da Vinci

When you take the bible as fact and authority, then you begin to quote from your memory. When you dismiss the bible as babble, then you have done the same thing. You are dismissing it because you do not think it is an authority. In neither case are you using your intelligence, or speaking about any actual understandings. You completely dismissed everything as ignorant because I said something from the book. Same level of ignorance as those who accept it.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Great, so you have it within you to live for the Spirit of God.
Do you do that?
Do you put your faith in God and give him all the Glory?
Do you believe all things work for the good of those that love God?
Do you believe Jesus words, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me?"

Each question above is yes or no....no trick questions there...just yes or no....ok?






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