It makes no difference. If the stimulus package was released tomorrow, then there won't be any impact until at least 2010, about the time this recession will be over anyway.
If they start working on the infrastructure, building bridges, highways, etc, that are "bucket ready," then it will take a minimun of a year to get every thing started, due to permits, environmental impact surveys, etc.
If the money that was sent out to each home that actually paid taxes, then the money would be spent and economy in 2-3 months. (I have several projects here at home that I would like to start on if I had the money.)
This stimulus package is not going to work. It didn't work with FDR and it won't work now.

Is there someway that money could be used to encourage business to open back up in America that have left for overseas? More jobs, more money in the economy .

I just don't believe that this package will do anything. It has failed for other countries, it has failed for FDR. Nowhere has it worked.

I understand the need for speed but I also think time must be put into researching the best methods.

Now know one has a solid answer, this economic situation is unprecendented, which is why there are so many questions and twice as many solutions.

But I think a little more research and thought has to go into it.

Now,the only little grain of hope I have is that Baraks father was supposed to be an economic genius, and that the stories are that Barak is not too shabby himself, so he maybe putting some twists and turns into it that may make a difference.

Ok this 800+ billion stimulus package...just where do any of you expect the majority of this money is going to go to?

You?...Me?....Heck no!!!

We..the ones who REALLY need it, will get but a FRACTION of it each...600 to 1500 at most. Not even enough to pay off overdue bills, much less spend any of it on extras that would help the economy.

The rest, will go to big buisness, corrupt corporations and their CEO's.

Unless EACH of us gets a nice fat 50,000 dollar check...this so called stimulous deal wont stimulate a darn thing..but the already fat cat's overbloated bank accounts.

Think about it.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 23-1-2009 by RFBurns]

As for FDR, I am afraid you are correct. I received a wonderful u2u from a member that broke it down to me in a way that left me seriously rethinking my position on this stimulus. I have asked that they post here, but we will see.

And also the idea that President Obama's father being a financial genius is promising. But how many twists and turns could the President pull off with congress still so connected to the vested interests? I mean to say that they are always indebted to someone for campaign contributions and have the right to fight him all the way.

What do you suppose would happen if he did nothing? Just let the chips fall as they may?

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
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If the money that was sent out to each home that actually paid taxes, then the money would be spent and economy in 2-3 months. (I have several projects here at home that I would like to start on if I had the money.)
This stimulus package is not going to work. It didn't work with FDR and it won't work now.

Indeed, yet do you really think that they want people out of debt and living stress free? Seems so much gets invested in keeping people on the edge of their seats and in constant survival mode.

I kind of like being able to kick back and relax, play a little guitar, and not have to worry about whether I can pay off the the credit cards and still eat.
If the government will just back off, calm down, and let the market run it's course this thing will correct itself. Hoover did much the same thing that Bush did when the Depression hit. It didn't work. (For those of you who don't know, Hoover was a "progressive." What we now call a liberal.)
When FDR was elected, he was elected in much the same way that Obama was. There was a lot of rhetoric, but no real substance. He promised a New Deal for America, but had no real idea what he was talking about. He was just one of those men who felt like he had to do SOMETHING.
What he did was creat an alphabet soup of government projects, none of which provide permanent jobs (sound familar) and put people to work. There was the CCC or Civilian Construction Corps. They cleaned up parks, and built lodges, cabins and such in state and national parks.
There was the WPA or Workers Progress Administration. (Those who actually worked for the WPA had another name for it: We Piddle Around.) They built schools, and public buildings. I actually went to grade school and junior high in one of these schools. If you've seen one, you've seen them all, because the same plans were used for them. Only one in my area was different. It didn't have an auditorium. I asked the principle why. It seemed that the men knew, the day the school was completed, that their jobs were over, so they conspired to burn it down that night.
Roosevelt also commissioned writers, photographers, and songwriters(ever hear of Woody Guthrie?) to travel around and photograph the depression, to get peoples stories, and to write songs about it.
That sounds great, but again, no permanent jobs.
Your don't end a recession/depression by throwing money at it. You let the Market work.
We were unable to break the hold the Great Depression had on this country until Great Britain became involved in WWII. FDR and Churchill worked out a "lend-lease" program that would bring money and goods into the country. (Stalin was included, but we managed to put him off for quite some time.) While the lend lease program helped the economy, it was not until America was attacked by Japan that we entered the war and began breaking the hold of the Great Depression. Why? Because people went back to work. Men were in the service, or using skills they had to build weapons. Women, for the first time, left the home and went to work in factories.
And thus began the true recovery.
It needs to be noted here that only in America was it called the Great Depression. In Europe, it was simply the depression, and was over in a relitively short time.
There is an excellent book on the market, "Roosevelt; A Traitor To His Class", by HW Brands. While I feel the author is a little biased toward Roosevelt, it is a biography, and is well worth the time it takes to read.
Basically, we need to quit giving money to banks, let the business cycle run it's course, and realize that this is normal.
Yes I think people got too greedy. Yes I think the subprime mortgage brokers are low lifes. But the people who lied to get into those houses deserve what the get. Folks this is economic Darwinism. The strong will survive. The weak will be eaten(absorbed) by the strong, and the cycle will start all over again.
And in this time of adversity, there will be some innovaters out there, someone like Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs, who will come up with the next big thing. Why? Because they have too.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by kettlebellysmith]

This is an area in which I am well aquainted with. I was raised on a working farm, and spent a lot of time getting my hands dirty. I would love to see what I refer to as "Megafarms" broken up and returned to people who actually love the land and want to raise quality crops of all sorts. I want Tyson out of the chicken business, forcing farmers to feed caged birds antibiotic and Growth Hormone Laced feed.
The same goes for any livestock industry.
I cannot comment because the rules of civility and decorum will not allow me to adequately discuss the members of that august body's parentage, lineage, origins, and probable destinations without getting me permanently banned from the board. Suffice it to say, they are allowing drug companies to take our hard earned money, over and above what the insurance pays, simply because the made minor changes in the the molecular structure and put it out as "new and improved."
If we want to take back our country legally then we must start with the legislature and get bills introduced that make it difficult if not impossible to take food out of the country, process it and send it back. We need to ride the backs of our elected officials like we would ride a bucking bronco, holding on for dear life, and digging the spurs in at every chance.
That is, if you want to do it the legal way. I believe the TOS forbids us from discussing the illegal ways, does it not?

Last night, on the way home from work, I heard a great radio show. I listen to Lars Larson on the way home every night. Some things I agree with, some not. However, he and one of his callers came up with 2 fantastic ideas for a truly stimulating package that would help both individuals and businesses get over their slump.

First, FICA Freedom. For one year, no individual or business pays a FICA tax. No matter how much you make, you would see a significant "percentage" increase in your weekly pay. Businesses would see a large percentage decrease in quarterly taxes and everyone would benefit from the gains. Since the gov't is hell-bent on borrowing $800 billion, let that money go directly into the Social Security system to more than offset the cost, propping it up for well over a year.

Next, increase the depreciation rate for small business owners. Instead of a 7-10% annual depreciation rate that takes 10+ years to overcome, let there be a flat 20% depreciation rate. All items owned by a small business would be paid out of their annual taxes in 5 years and they would be more inclined to increase purchase and marketing accounts across the board.

Combined, the gov't gets to prop up SS for a year, plus use the overhead to offset the tax loss from depreciation, keeping the SS institution from going bankrupt. As well, the combined cost savings to business owners increases their ability and willingness to spend in the market, as well as opens up options for increased wages or hours to deserving employees.

It creates a self healing wound, rather than a self inflicting wound. Put more money back into the pockets of the small business owners, entrepreneurs and individual wage earners and you will see an economy fix itself. People will invest more, spend more, save more, and get a general sigh of relief at being able to safely pay their rent/mortgage while not worrying about the lights going out and the food disappearing.

What do you think?

There has been talk of an income tax holiday as well. However, what they don't tell you is that you will still pay those taxes at the end of the year, when you file your return.
If they don't get you coming, they will get you going.
Obama is not going to cut taxes for the middle class. Unfortunately he his going to increase government control over every part of our lives.
And the MSM is going to let him slide. See my thread "The Worst Ice Storm In 20 Years: Where's FEMA?